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[amibroker] Re: I've problems with the BARCOUNT concept, please



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<FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>Tomasz, I recognize there may not be an easy way and it is not your 
responsibility to solve it; it will be up to the individual user to develop a 
custom solution.
<FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2> 
The 
problem faced is simply that many traders have designed and traded systems using 
standard EOD data for years, systems that may not (in my case they do 
not) work with RT-Compressed data. This is a problem of the times 
and i am not blaming anybody for it. 
<FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2> 
<SPAN 
class=453413718-16032004>I posted my solution  last week wrt another 
topic: I will run two instances of AB (RT&EOD) and share an 
information file between them. Not a nice solution but i cannot think of a 
better one. Perhaps we could spawn an EOD AmiBroker version from an RT 
AmiBroker version and pass data from one to the 
other...
<SPAN 
class=453413718-16032004> 
<SPAN 
class=453413718-16032004>Best regards,
<SPAN 
class=453413718-16032004>Herman.
<FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2> 

  <FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----From: Tomasz Janeczko 
  [mailto:amibroker@xxxxxx]Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 1:29 
  PMTo: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSubject: Re: [amibroker] 
  Does your Esignal data match your QP2 data???Importance: 
  High
  Hello,
   
  Of course it is possible - using time-compressed 
  data.
   
  But we should agree that daily data created by compression 
  of intraday data
  are perfectly valid - in fact they represent _ALL_ 
  actual trades. 
  Best regards,Tomasz 
  Janeczkoamibroker.com
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
  >
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    <DIV 
    >From: 
    dingo 

    To: <A title=amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
    href="">amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
    Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 7:14 
    PM
    Subject: RE: [amibroker] Does your 
    Esignal data match your QP2 data???
    
    <FONT face=Arial 
    color=#0000ff size=2>So, in your opinion is it possible to do what Herman is 
    trying to do ie work on intraday stops, etc but use EOD 
    signals?
    <FONT face=Arial 
    color=#0000ff size=2> 
    <FONT face=Arial 
    color=#0000ff size=2>d
    
      
      
      From: Tomasz Janeczko 
      [mailto:amibroker@xxxxxx] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 1:05 
      PMTo: <A 
      href="">amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSubject: 
      Re: [amibroker] Does your Esignal data match your QP2 
      data???
      
      Herman,
       
      This would lead to much bigger problems than you think. 
      Now daily (compressed) data in intraday database match intraday 
      data.
      This allows to use multiple time frames and price levels 
      in different time frames match each other.
       
      With your suggestion implemented you will have 
      daily data that do not match intraday data. In other 
      words
      your single formula would operate on different 
      data and generate different signals.
      Right now if you calculate highest from intraday it is 
      also highest from daily (compressed) data.
      With your approach this would not work. 
      
      Best regards,Tomasz 
      Janeczkoamibroker.com
      <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
      >
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        <DIV 
        >From: 
        Herman van den 
        Bergen 
        To: <A 
        title=amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
        href="">amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
        
        Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:50 
        PM
        Subject: RE: [amibroker] Does your 
        Esignal data match your QP2 data???
        
        <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
        size=2>Thank you Tomasz and others for all your comments however I 
        really think i understand ALL the issues and i am NOT arguing with any 
        of them. The problem has been confirmed: I am not seeking an 
        explanantion; i am seeking a practical solution.
        <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
        size=2> 
        <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
        size=2>The differences appear in all price fields (OHLC) and seem to 
        exceed that which may be caused by Form-T trades so there is no garantee 
        that adding a Form-T filter would solve the problem. If it is an 
        easy test we could try but perhaps the effort would be better spend on 
        development of a function that allows us to access both the eSignal EOD 
        and eSignal RT DB from the same code. I know this will introduce other 
        problems however i think we can code around those.
        <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
        size=2> 
        <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
        size=2>Best regards,
        <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
        size=2>herman
        
          <FONT face=Tahoma 
          size=2>-----Original Message-----From: Tomasz Janeczko 
          [mailto:amibroker@xxxxxx]Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 
          11:11 AMTo: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSubject: 
          Re: [amibroker] Does your Esignal data match your QP2 
          data???Importance: High
          Herman,
          TimeFrameGetPrice as any other timeframe funciton COMPRESSES 
          data.
          In your case it creates DAILY bars from intraday data. Those 
          intraday data contain
          ALL trades, while EOD records published by NASDAQ do NOT include 
          all trades.
          Hence the difference.
           
          As Jayson pointed out this is by nasdaq regulation and you may 
          only wish NOT to receive Form-T
          in intraday data - this is doable but would require changing the 
          plugin to REMOVE Form-T records
          from intraday data.
          Best regards,Tomasz Janeczkoamibroker.com
          <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
          >
            ----- Original Message ----- 
            <DIV 
            >From: 
            Herman van 
            den Bergen 
            To: <A 
            title=amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
            href="">amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
            
            Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 
            5:03 PM
            Subject: RE: [amibroker] Does 
            your Esignal data match your QP2 data???
            
            <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
            size=2>Hello Jayson, I think everybody misses the 
            point.
            <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
            size=2> 
            <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
            size=2>As my subject line indicates I found a significant 
            difference between eSignal/QP2 EOD and eSignal RT data. Initially 
            this was denied, now it is explained. 
            <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
            size=2> 
            <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
            size=2>The point I made and that is missed by most readers 
            remains exactly the same: the data differs significantly and you 
            cannot convert short term EOD systems to RT and expect the same 
            results. BTW, I trade NASDAQ exclusively and wouldn't think of 
            changing, also pre/after hours data is NOT included in the 
            comparison.
            <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
            size=2> 
            <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
            size=2>AmiBroker does not let you access separate EOD and RT 
            databases from one program (as far as I know) so it is impossible to 
            convert complicated code that took years to develop and is based on 
            EOD-quality data to an RT environment. This means that EOD 
            short-term traders will not be able 
            to optimize Stops, Targets and Limit orders with adding RT 
            data; using that type of orders will give you unrealistic results in 
            EOD backtesting. The only solution i can think of is 
            to maintain two databases and develop some form of 
            communication between the RT and EOD instances of AB (Composites 
            don't work because they reside in different 
DBs).
            <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
            size=2> 
            <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
            size=2>After going around in circles a few times my original 
            question has been answered: eSignal RT OHLC data retrieved using 
            TimeFrameGetPrice() is NOT the 
            same as eSignal or QP2 EOD OHLC data. The reason for 
            this is irrelevant, the fact stands and causes problems in system 
            design and conversion from EOD to RT. Now that this has been 
            confirmed I have to find a way to work around/with 
            it.
            <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
            size=2> 
            <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
            size=2>Thank you for your comments Jason,
            <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
            size=2>best regards,
            <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
            size=2>herman.
            
              <FONT 
              face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----From: 
              Jayson [mailto:jcasavant@xxxxxxxxxxx]Sent: Tuesday, 
              March 16, 2004 10:11 AMTo: 
              amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSubject: RE: [amibroker] Does 
              your Esignal data match your QP2 data???Importance: 
              High
              <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
              size=2>Herman,
              <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
              size=2> 
              <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
              size=2>I think Tomasz hit the nail on the head. Are you finding 
              the errors to be in Nasdaq stocks only? You will not match exactly 
              RT and EOD  because of nasdaq rules. But the real question 
              is, are they errors? I would say no, they are accurate reflections 
              of the nasdaq rules. RT data by design is a zoomed in snapshot of 
              what actually occurred during the trading day and does in fact 
              include trades that the EOD numbers do not see. Did those trades 
              not happen? Of course they did and of course they will be 
              reflected in the decisions of RT traders during the after hours 
              session and again tomorrow in the pre market. Personally I hate 
              the pre and after markets as they just muddy of the waters but 
              nasdaq has them and if you plan to trade RT data you have to learn 
              to live with it. An alternative would be to avoid the Nasdaq 
              stocks for your system testing
               
              <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
              size=2>Regards, 
              Jayson 
              <FONT 
              face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----From: 
              Herman van den Bergen [mailto:psytek@xxxxxxxx]Sent: 
              Tuesday, March 16, 2004 9:13 AMTo: 
              amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSubject: RE: [amibroker] Does 
              your eSignal data match your QP2 data???
              <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
              size=2><SPAN 
              class=796213912-16032004>see 
              also my inline response to 
              Tomasz...
              <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
              size=2><SPAN 
              class=796213912-16032004> 
              <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
              size=2><SPAN 
              class=796213912-16032004>I challenge anybody 
              to produce code that extracts EOD OHLC prices from eSignal RT 
              that "reasonable accurate" matches either eSignal EOD or QP2 data. 
              <FONT face=Arial 
              color=#0000ff size=2>Considering the trend of EOD traders moving 
              into RT this is an important topic; nobody wants to throw out 
              working EOD trading systems that took years to develop; the idea 
              is to improve existing EOD systems with RT data, not to start 
              from scratch developing new systems.
              <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
              size=2> <SPAN 
              class=796213912-16032004>
              <FONT 
              face=Arial>The TimeFrameGetPrice() doesn't seem to help 
              here (see code posted earlier). We 
              may need a way to switch from eSignal RT or eSignal 
              EOD on the fly. The only alternative I 
              see is to run two AB instances and use custom files to 
              share data between them. This means forever synchronizing two code 
              versions for each system, maintain two databases, and develop 
              additional data-sharing code. All this work is a very discouraging 
              thought. If you have a better idea I'd like to hear from 
              you.
              <SPAN 
              class=796213912-16032004> 
              If somebody 
              proves me wrong (wouldn't be the first time) I will humbly and 
              publicly post a retraction and apology.
              <SPAN 
              class=796213912-16032004> 
              <SPAN 
              class=796213912-16032004>best 
              regards,
              <SPAN 
              class=796213912-16032004>herman
              <SPAN 
              class=796213912-16032004> <FONT 
              color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
              class=796213912-16032004>
              
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                    <FONT 
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                <FONT 
                face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----From: 
                Tomasz Janeczko [mailto:amibroker@xxxxxx]Sent: 
                Tuesday, March 16, 2004 4:15 AMTo: 
                amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSubject: Re: [amibroker] 
                Does your eSignal data match your QP2 
                data???Importance: High
                Herman,
                 
                As I wrote you in a separate e-mail: if you 
                are in EST time zone you should turn on pre/after hours 
                filtering and set
                START time to 9:30 and END time to 15:59. If 
                you set it otherwise open or close price may be slightly 
                different
                than QP2 data because of after hours trading 
                being accounted. So please check start-end times you have 
                in
                File->Database Settings->Intraday 
                Settings. <FONT face=Arial 
                color=#0000ff>  
                <FONT 
                face=Arial color=#0000ff> 
                <FONT 
                face=Arial color=#0000ff>Tomasz, I followed all suggestions you 
                made to the letter. All my settings are correct and I also 
                created the new eSignal EOD database. If anybody  
                doubts my findings then just run the two code samples to 
                convince yourself - don't go by my word alone. I fact I 
                challenge anybody to prove me wrong using the code shown 
                previously. 
                 
                Anyway you will never be able to reach 100% 
                match because
                intraday data contain all trading (including 
                Form-Ts). My observation is that Form-Ts start flowing even 
                before 16:00
                hence streaming intraday data will contain 
                them while EOD data not as per nasdaq regulations.<SPAN 
                class=796213912-16032004><FONT face=Arial 
                color=#0000ff> 
                <SPAN 
                class=796213912-16032004> 
                <FONT 
                face=Arial color=#0000ff>I do not expect a 100% match 
                however I do not expect a 38% error rate accross 
                all price fields (OHLC) either this is too high to successfully 
                translate any EOD short term trading system to 
                RT. 
                <FONT 
                face=Arial color=#0000ff> 
                <FONT 
                face=Arial color=#0000ff>The TimeFrameGetPrice() does not 
                help here. What we need is 
                a way to switch from eSignal RT or eSignal EOD on the fly. 
                The only alternative I see is to run two AB 
                instances and use custom files to share data between them. This 
                means forever synchronizing two code versions, maintain two 
                databases, and develop additional data-sharing 
                code.
                See the following excerpt from: <A 
                href="">http://www.csidata.com/techjournal/csinews/200010/page01.htm
                 
                "A complicating feature of this 
                arrangement was the inconsistent way trades were reported for 
                the various exchanges. All trades for Nasdaq-listed issues that 
                occurred in the late trading session (after 4:00 p.m.) were sent 
                from Nasdaq as Form-T trades. By Nasdaq rule, these trades were 
                not (and still are not) allowed to change the official daily 
                high-low-last price data, but they do increment the volume. 
                Ostensibly, this is because Nasdaq uses 4:00 p.m. prices to 
                calculate indices. They (apparently) have no way to preserve the 
                4:00 p.m. price quote for each index component. In contrast, 
                trades on Nasdaq of NYSE-listed issues were sent as regular 
                trades, which altered the official composite high-low-last 
                quote.<FONT 
                color=#000000>  "
                Best 
                regards,Tomasz Janeczkoamibroker.com
                <BLOCKQUOTE 
                >
                  ----- Original Message ----- 
                  
                  <DIV 
                  >From: 
                  Herman 
                  van den Bergen 
                  To: <A 
                  title=amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                  href="">amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                  
                  Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 
                  2004 1:09 AM
                  Subject: RE: [amibroker] 
                  Does your eSignal data match your QP2 data???
                  
                  <FONT face=Arial 
                  color=#0000ff size=2>Yes Tomasz I did created a new EOD 
                  eSignal data base and i found that (over the same 20-day 
                  random sample) QP2 and eSignal data were exactly the same 
                  using EOD, the problem i have is with the RT data 
                  conversion to EOD prices using only the eSignal RT 
                  database. 
                  <FONT face=Arial 
                  color=#0000ff size=2> 
                  <FONT face=Arial 
                  color=#0000ff size=2>Also, as you suggested, setting 
                  AA Settings to the Daily 
                  mode <FONT 
                  face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>gave EOD prices that matched 
                  the OHLC extracted from RT data, but they do not match either 
                  QP2 or eSignal EOD data - this suggests that either my 
                  code is wrong or RT data is different. When setting the 
                  AA to Minutes and using <FONT color=#0000ff 
                  size=2>TimeFrameGetPrice(<FONT 
                  color=#ff00ff size=2>"O", inDaily, 
                  expandFirst ); to extract EOD 
                  prices from eSignal RT data this gives 
                  me different prices from both QP2 and eSignal EOD 
                  data. 
                  <FONT face=Arial 
                  color=#0000ff size=2> <SPAN 
                  class=765523122-15032004>
                  Any suggestions on 
                  how I 
                  can extract EOD data from eSignal RT will be 
                  appreciated. 
                  <SPAN 
                  class=765523122-15032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
                  size=2> 
                  <FONT face=Arial 
                  color=#0000ff size=2>best regards,
                  <FONT face=Arial 
                  color=#0000ff size=2>Herman.
                  <FONT 
                  color=#008000>// Real time Exploration Run on eSignal<SPAN 
                  class=765523122-15032004>, use 1 Minute 
                  settingsOt= <FONT 
                  color=#0000ff>TimeFrameGetPrice(<FONT 
                  color=#ff00ff>"O", inDaily,expandLast 
                  );Ht = TimeFrameGetPrice(<FONT 
                  color=#ff00ff>"H", inDaily,expandLast 
                  );Lt = TimeFrameGetPrice(<FONT 
                  color=#ff00ff>"L", inDaily,expandLast 
                  );Ct = TimeFrameGetPrice(<FONT 
                  color=#ff00ff>"C", inDaily,expandLast 
                  );Vt = TimeFrameGetPrice(<FONT 
                  color=#ff00ff>"V", inDaily,expandLast 
                  );Buy=Sell=Short=Cover=<FONT 
                  color=#ff00ff>0;Filter = <FONT 
                  color=#0000ff>TimeNum() == <FONT 
                  color=#ff00ff>093000;<FONT 
                  color=#0000ff>AddColumn(Ot,<FONT 
                  color=#ff00ff>"O",<FONT 
                  color=#ff00ff>1.2);<FONT 
                  color=#0000ff>AddColumn(Ht,<FONT 
                  color=#ff00ff>"H",<FONT 
                  color=#ff00ff>1.2);<FONT 
                  color=#0000ff>AddColumn(Lt,<FONT 
                  color=#ff00ff>"L",<FONT 
                  color=#ff00ff>1.2);<FONT 
                  color=#0000ff>AddColumn(Ct,<FONT 
                  color=#ff00ff>"C",<FONT 
                  color=#ff00ff>1.2);<SPAN 
                  class=765523122-15032004> <FONT 
                  size=2>// Exploration Run on QP2<SPAN 
                  class=765523122-15032004>, use Daily 
                  settingsBuy=Sell=Short=Cover=<FONT 
                  color=#ff00ff>0;Filter = <FONT 
                  color=#ff00ff>1;<FONT 
                  color=#0000ff>AddColumn(O,<FONT 
                  color=#ff00ff>"O",<FONT 
                  color=#ff00ff>1.2);<FONT 
                  color=#0000ff>AddColumn(H,<FONT 
                  color=#ff00ff>"H",<FONT 
                  color=#ff00ff>1.2);<FONT 
                  color=#0000ff>AddColumn(L,<FONT 
                  color=#ff00ff>"L",<FONT 
                  color=#ff00ff>1.2);<FONT 
                  color=#0000ff>AddColumn(C,<FONT 
                  color=#ff00ff>"C",<FONT 
                  color=#ff00ff>1.2);
                  
                  <FONT 
                  size=2> <FONT face=Tahoma 
                  size=2>-----Original Message-----From: Tomasz 
                  Janeczko [mailto:amibroker@xxxxxx]Sent: Monday, 
                  March 15, 2004 4:45 PMTo: 
                  amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSubject: Re: [amibroker] 
                  Does your eSignal data match your QP2 
                  data???Importance: High
                  
                    Herman,
                     
                    Did you do what I suggested ? I.e. 
                    creating eSignal database with base time interval set to 
                    "EOD (daily)" ?
                    Best regards,Tomasz 
                    Janeczkoamibroker.com
                    <BLOCKQUOTE 
                    >
                      ----- Original Message ----- 
                      
                      <DIV 
                      >From: 
                      <A title=psytek@xxxxxxxx 
                      href="">Herman van den Bergen 
                      
                      To: <A 
                      title=amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                      href="">AmiBroker 
                      
                      Sent: Monday, March 
                      15, 2004 6:09 PM
                      Subject: [amibroker] 
                      Does your eSignal data match your QP2 data???
                      
                      <SPAN 
                      class=531415316-15032004>Hello,
                      <SPAN 
                      class=531415316-15032004> 
                      <SPAN 
                      class=531415316-15032004>I run both eSignal and QP2 data 
                      and am porting some mature QP2 EOD code to 
                      eSignal to see if it can be enhanced with RT data. Before 
                      changing any code I wanted to confirm identical 
                      EOD performance in both data environments, I found huge 
                      discrepancies. Comparing daily OHLC prices derived from 
                      eSignal RT data with OHLC data from QuotePlus I found that 
                      taking a Random 20-day sample showed 38% disagreement 
                      between the two data sources. Now the question arises as 
                      to which is the correct one?
                      <SPAN 
                      class=531415316-15032004> 
                      <SPAN 
                      class=531415316-15032004>If you have both data sources 
                      please let me know if you have noticed this discrepancy. I 
                      used the following code snippets to illustrate this 
                      problem. I used two separate AB instances; one configured 
                      for eSignal and one for QuotePlus. Perhaps I am doing 
                      something wrong....I hope so!
                      <SPAN 
                      class=531415316-15032004> 
                      <SPAN 
                      class=531415316-15032004>Many thanks for any comments you 
                      can make,
                      <SPAN 
                      class=531415316-15032004>Herman.
                      <SPAN 
                      class=531415316-15032004> 
                      <SPAN 
                      class=531415316-15032004>// Exploration Run on 
                      QP2Buy=Sell=Short=Cover=0;Filter = 
                      1;AddColumn(O,"O",1.2);AddColumn(H,"H",1.2);AddColumn(L,"L",1.2);AddColumn(C,"C",1.2);
                      <SPAN 
                      class=531415316-15032004> 
                      <SPAN 
                      class=531415316-15032004>// Real time Exploration Run on 
                      eSignalOt= TimeFrameGetPrice("O", inDaily);Ht = 
                      TimeFrameGetPrice("H", inDaily);Lt = 
                      TimeFrameGetPrice("L", inDaily);Ct = 
                      TimeFrameGetPrice("C", inDaily);Vt = 
                      TimeFrameGetPrice("V", inDaily);
                      <SPAN 
                      class=531415316-15032004>Buy=Sell=Short=Cover=0;Filter 
                      = TimeNum() == 
                      093000;AddColumn(Ot,"O",1.2);AddColumn(Ht,"H",1.2);AddColumn(Lt,"L",1.2);AddColumn(Ct,"C",1.2);Send 
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