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At 01.39 13/02/03 +0000, you wrote:
>I just love the "idea" of NN's except for the fact that what you wind
>up with is usually a black or at best a gray box
It may sounds strange to you, but I started using NN just for the 
"black-box" idea:
what I tought is: "there may be a 'strange' use of data that can build a 
good trading system, but this strange combination may be very 
controintuitive and may be achieved only with a long and difficult 
computation".
May be interesting to understand how a black blox works but, for me, it's 
much more important that black box works correctly and gives me a very good 
trading system. I've never seen performances like the ones achieved by my 
NN systems.
>and that I've yet to
>see any NN model that did anything worth talking about on out of
>sample data
when you train a neural network, you work with, at least, two set of data: 
train data and cross validation data (there are, also, test data).
While you train the network with train data, at the same time you test it 
on cross validation data i.e. NN is trained with a set of data and is 
tested on data never seen by the network. The performance, and stop 
criterion, are based on the network performance achieved with cross 
validation data i.e. data never seen before.
>As far as Neurosolutions offerings I can't the demo of their product
>to crunch numbers even when supplied with fairly simple inputs.  It
>just hangs.
Not to me: NN works correctly to me. It may be problems with data (or file) 
format.
regards
Buttha
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