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Excellent points of view and well written. I am impressed with your
intellect and writing skills but I am not convinced that when people live
in an entirely different culture with different ideals and different
goals that this does not materially change their investment styles,
motives and emotions. It's ok for us to agree to disagree.
It's healthy and productive.
Bob
At 12:16 AM 2/24/2008, you wrote:
Bob,
Ira said that he has been using his system for 35 years without the need
for any changes across different markets as well as (constantly)
differing conditions. If your system provides for the basic interference
of human nature in the path of price discovering value, then you
have a system that does not require any changes.
Despite my earnings having gone up many-fold from the 80s, even today I
remain the same as far as my emotions go. No doubt I have surrounded
myself with all the material trappings that money can buy; I have a
bigger bank balance etc. but relatively, my equation with the markets
remains the same. I may have 100K to blow on a single trade now but
will my mind allow me to function effectively after that? That is the
real question. Definitions of greed fear and hope will remain the same-
only the props may change. James Bond in the 70s flew a biplane but in
2010 he will fly an A380- but a plane is a plane is a plane. Bond?s
relation with the plane did not change, only the sophistication of the
plane did. Craig may make for a dapper Bond in 2007 but we all thought
Connery was pretty dapper too, back then. It is all a matter of seeing
the surroundings or the substance. James Bond the character is the
substance- Craig or Connery are the surroundings. Measures will keep
differing. In the 20s you were rich if you drove a Model T, while now it
is whether you own a Ferretti 80 footer yacht with all fittings. Tomorrow
it may be whether you have your own Inter-Galactic Hopper to whiz into
Andromeda for a weekend holiday- who knows? Who thought Cellphones would
be reality but now teenagers become dysfunctional if they don?t possess
one! Cannot life go on without these? Only our identifications change,
not life itself.
Not being critical here but I sense a feeling of nostalgia and some
cynicism for how things have changed. But the biggest challenge of life
is to accept changes and then see how we can deal with them. The
current days are going to be nostalgic times for a Bob Jr. 20years from
today, don?t you think? After all, it was Elliot himself who stated that
mankind was ever on a path of advancement and every achievement of one
generation shall be exceeded by the next (thus making for his Impulse
theory of the markets). All such changes bring their own positives and
negatives but does man?s nature change, essentially? Not really.
We are our thoughts and the bundle of energy that is the
body-mind-intellect equipment we call a human being, functions by
harnessing the energy in the form of thoughts and directing it outward in
the form of action. The basic principles of life still remain the same-
food, shelter and clothing. How much of each is the only difference- thru
time. You said in your mail ?today is about today. Yesterday it was about
tomorrow?. I beg to differ. It is always about tomorrow. Especially
markets. We verily create the market that we get. Trades acting on their
beliefs about tomorrow (which in itself is arrived at thru their own lens
of wants and needs and fears and aspirations) decide how the market of
the future is going to be. The future is just the product of the past
modified by our actions in the present.
I have sophisticated softwares and systems-am I less fearful of the
market now? No. I have lots of money and comforts- is my greed any
lesser? No. I have been there and done that in most areas in the past 30
years of market association- are my hopes and aspirations any less or any
more? Indeed not. By all standard measures, I am comfortably placed in
life- are my anxieties about life and health and future prosperity gone
because? No way.
Basic nature of man does not change no matter how many eons go. Indeed,
it is all these emotions that drive us to be ever persistent in the path
we call progress. But what, really, is progress? That may be an entire
new topic for discussion! But ever since I began accepting things the way
they are, life has become simpler, easier to deal with and above all,
happier. And of course, the markets have become so much friendlier.
Acceptance modifies the fear, makes it healthier. And that is the
greatest victory, I believe, that one can achieve in the markets.
Of course, all this is my opinion. No need that others should agree. But
if it helps you see life in a more enabling way, I am happy.
Dr.Narayan.
From: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[
mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of BobsKC
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 11:49 PM
To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [RT] Download Free Elliott Wave Theorist (normally
priced at $29)
The meaning of the words greed and
fear and hope do not change but
the basis for them does change. For instance. In 1929 men were
terrified of losing their jobs and their main hope was to have a job
they could keep for the rest of their working life. People purchased
what they could pay for out of pocket and buying things like home
appliances on credit was unheard of. You had what you could pay for
and if you couldn't pay for it, you couldn't afford it. As mentioned
earlier, the working class were mostly not in the markets and cared
little about them. There was a higher degree of honor among people
and by businesses. Success in life was measured by providing a roof
over your families' head, food to eat and clothes to wear. Multiple
autos, boats, vacation homes, the latest inventions and retirement
accounts were for the rich. Compare those times with today. Compare
the thinking of Americans then with the thinking of Americans
today. Compare the practices of people then and now. Compare the
honesty, honor and integrity of people then and now. Compare the
financial responsibility of people then and now. Compare waiting for
what you want until you can afford it with having to have it all and
have it now attitudes present today. People job jumping just to make
a few more dollars. Today is about today, yesteryear was about
tomorrow.
Now, tell me that all those things above do not affect the stock
market. Tell me that the vastly different attitudes about life and
money do not affect what reaction people had then and have today to
the same situations .. the same news... the same circumstances. Add
in the fact that a large percentage of the working class are in
today's markets through mutual funds or even directly. Factor all of
these things into the mental perspective of the average investor then
and now and tell me you don't think it changes the meanings of the
words fear, greed and hope. Those words are totally redefined and so
are the results they bring about in the markets. Charts showing what
the investor class did 80 years have little to do with what people
will do today. Even if the circumstances are the same. That is why
someone like Ira uses his 35 years of experience to buffer, mitigate
and massage his tech work.
Bob
At 11:32 PM 2/22/2008, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>In and thru all those changes that you spoke about from 1929 thru
>today, one thing that does not change is the human nature of greed
>and fear and hope and anxiety.
>All our actions are as a result of our thoughts that emerge from
>emotions created by desires at our intellect levels. This can never
>change whether we are trading stocks, bonds, commodities, mutual
>funds or ADRs......and it will ever remain thus.
>This is how the past repeats into the future.
>
>Dr.Narayan
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: RB
<rhodes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>Date: Saturday, February 23, 2008 11:40 am
>Subject: Re: [RT] Download Free Elliott Wave Theorist (normally
>priced at $29)
>To:
realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> >
> > I would have to agree with most of this.
> > I also had the understanding, that the Elliott Wave Theorist
over
> > all had a fair to good track record, when compared to
offer
> > newsletters-gurus as far as their recomendations.
> > As far as the predictions. I would think theirs would be
like
> > most. Not very usefull at all.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Ira
> > To:
realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 12:17 PM
> > Subject: Re: [RT] Download Free Elliott Wave Theorist
(normally
> > priced at $29)
> >
> >
> >
> > In every profession there are people that get stuck in their
own
> > belief system and can make what ever they see conform to what
they
> > want it to look like. As for history not repeating itself, I
will
> > have to disagree with you. All technical analysis is based
upon
> > the fact that certain things continue to happen with a
great
> > degree of consistence. That is what make technical analysis
work.
> > The thing that gets in the way is the human factor. This is
the
> > case in every failed enterprise as well as every success.
> >
> > Those who can understand what they are looking at and how to
use
> > that knowledge will always succeed. Those that follow rotely
are
> > doomed to fail at some point. It is the ability to apply
the
> > knowledge with as little bias as possible that creates
success.
> > That is one of the reasons that I preach, look at both moves
up
> > and down all the time. What has to happen for prices to rise
and
> > what has to happen for prices to fall? The problem with
most
> > traders is that they only look in one direction and caught up
in
> > their belief system and don't look at what will make their
> > decision wrong. They usually use financial pain as an exit
level
> > rather than a price point that says they are wrong.
> >
> > I have used the same system for over 35 years and never had
to
> > change it, adjust it or tweak it and it has worked successfully
in
> > all kinds of markets and it still works today. So does
history
> > repeat itself? All of the time. Minute by minute to year
after
> > year.
> >
> > Just one man's opinion,
> > Ira
> >
www.delta100.com
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: BobsKC
> > To:
realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 7:35 AM
> > Subject: Re: [RT] Download Free Elliott Wave Theorist
> > (normally priced at $29)
> >
> >
> > Just Prector .. He's been predicting doom all through out
the
> > bull market we've been in including through nearly all of the
tech
> > bubble which would have wiped out most people following
his
> > advice. He now admits to under-estimating the length of wave
C
> > but only after no one had any money left who had been
believers.
> > His view is that even though the market makeup changes, people
do
> > not change but even that is flawed because when he looks at
the
> > conditions in 1929, the people in that market had an
entirely
> > different geographical and financial makeup than today. There
was
> > no one world market.. no world economy, no ADR's. Stocks
were
> > being purchased for .10 on the dollar. I wasn't alive then but
I
> > don't believe there were mutual funds. So, the players are
vastly
> > different, the game is different and the rules are different
but
> > he doggedly sticks to his theme that it's all the same and
history
> > will repeat itself. A view that has been extremely costly to
his
> > followers.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > At 12:39 AM 2/22/2008, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Does this mean you're not a Prector fan or not an Elliot
> > Wave fan?
> >
> > Just curious if there is a distinction, and if so, why?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 2/22/2008 12:03:38 A.M. Eastern
Standard
> > Time,
bobskc@xxxxxxxxxxxx
writes:
> >
> >
> >
> > Prector is still around huh? Every time the market sinks
> > a bit, his name returns to the media so it's not really
surprising
> > I guess. By the time he was right about the markets from
the
> > '90's, his followers had to all be busted but I guess there is
a
> > new crop now.
> >
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> > At 10:31 PM 2/21/2008, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Download Free Elliott Wave Theorist (normally priced at
> > $29)
> >
> > EIliott Wave International is giving away one of Bob
> > Prechter's most recent Elliott Wave Theorists. You can read
his
> > publication free of charge. Single issues are normally priced
at $29.
> >
> >
> >
http://www.elliottwave.com/a.asp?url="">
> > theorist.aspx?code=aff&cn=6tgt
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > ---
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> >
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >
> > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1291 -
> > Release Date: 2/21/2008 11:05 AM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > -------
> > Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the
> > video on AOL Living.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
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