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RE: [RT] Tax Cuts



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<FONT color=#0000ff 
size=2>Exactly....AMERICA - Land of the consumers; INDIA/CHINA - Land of the 
producers.
We can't produce 
anything except <bullshit> from lawyers and insurance companies in this 
country anymore....that's our biggest product now.
Wait, I forgot 
our beloved government...add them to the bullshit list with all of those 
security consultants and analysts who so incompetently allowed 9-11 to happen. 
Great job, guys..How much do you get paid again ?
<FONT color=#0000ff 
size=2> 
With H1-B and L1 
visa programs promulgated by some liberal "I hate those overpaid techies" 
senators,
the WHOOSH of 
technology to overseas firms has been INCREDIBLE and without 
PRECEDENT.
As a result, 
America is losing technology dominance....a terrible, 
long-term trend.
<FONT color=#0000ff 
size=2> 
What is your 
government doing for YOU today ?
Bullshit is the 
answer.
<FONT color=#0000ff 
size=2> 
<BLOCKQUOTE 
>
  <FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----From: Navtej S. Nandra (RR) 
  [mailto:nnandra@xxxxxxxxxx]Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 10:08 
  PMTo: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSubject: Re: [RT] Tax 
  Cuts
  Can't speak to the current tax proposal and its 
  trade-offs, but here are some simplistic thoughts:
  1)  Investments create businesses create 
  jobs
  2)  Business and jobs create money velocity 
  and more investments
  3)  See 1) above
   
  Any stimulus that helps investments in businesses 
  is good, because it creates income producing long term assets.
   
  But right now, we are doing two things that do 
  not address the above.  For one thing, we (as in the captains of 
  industry) are outsourcing our businesses overseas (manufacturing, commodities, 
  services) and for another, our (as in elected representatives) policies 
  support consumer income over business investments.
   
  So we are not doing much to create US based 
  businesses and are using a subsidy from lower interest rates (via HELOCs, 
  mortgages) as well as tax give backs to create a consumer spending lift.  
  Much of which is paying for oil and goods that we import from 
  others.
   
  Not suggesting we change interest rates or tax 
  policy or free trade ... but definitely suggesting that we should do something 
  meaningful that makes investment in US industry a better opportunity than 
  outsourcing.
   
  I think a 3 year horizon will probably see 
  significant global money flow into countries like India, China, Vietnam, 
  Thailand, etc.
   
  The good news?  We continue to be the 
  world's largest consumers of stuff.  So trade flows have to rely on us 
  and our (gasp) foreign policy.
   
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  <BLOCKQUOTE 
  >
    <DIV 
    >From: 
    Charles Marchand 
    
    To: <A 
    title=realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
    href="">realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
    
    Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 10:08 
    PM
    Subject: Re: [RT] Tax Cuts
    Kent,         
    Good points -- tax breaks for R&D, capital spending, etc. are 
    effectively tax cuts designed to stimulate some part of the 
    economy.  Whether they work or not seems to depend on who you talk 
    to.  Personal tax rates today are lower than the marginal rates of 
    up to 70%  that prevailed for most of the post WWII period (90% 
    briefly during the Korean War), but we have the Alternative Minimum Tax 
    hitting a larger number of high income families every 
    year.         The 
    elimination of taxes on dividends had an immediate impact on the 
    Utilities.  Since money flees taxation, the dividend tax elimination 
    will probably continue to favorably impact dividend yielding Dow 30 / 
    SnP 500 stocks while drawing money from the Hope & Glory NAZ.  
    Will this weaken investment in new US technology?  REITS don't 
    participate in the dividend tax relief.  Will this take some air 
    out of real estate?   Will this tax policy draw some widow and 
    orphans' money from CD's, bonds or T-Bills?  What will be the 
    effect on foreign investment in the U. S. market?  Will it be 
    extended beyond the three year period?  I don't have a clue.  
    Ideas welcomed!         BTW 
    -- Ref the suggestion that if you don't pay taxes, you don't vote -- 
    30-odd years ago oilman HL Hunt floated a tongue-in-cheek proposition 
    that the more taxes you pay, the more votes you should have.  He 
    suggested that people would be falling all over themselves to pay more 
    in taxes.Charles MarchandAt 01:21 PM 5/27/2003 -0400, 
    you wrote:>Also, it depends on which taxes are being cut and what 
    their relative level>is.  If taxes are very low (which they are 
    not today), then tax cuts would>probably result in lower 
    revenue.>>Kent Rollins>>>----- Original 
    Message ----->From: "Charles Marchand" 
    <c_r@xxxxxxxxx>>To: 
    <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 11:29 
    PM>Subject: Re: [RT] Tax 
    Cuts>>>Lenny,>>          
    None of the 
    above.>>          
    Tax cuts and resulting governmental income do not happen in 
    a>vacuum.  A, B, C might apply if there were no other 
    macro-economic factors>at work in the global or national 
    economy.>>          
    BTW -- Not interested in spin either.>>Charles 
    Marchand>>>At 09:43 PM 5/26/2003 -0400, you 
    wrote:> >Charles,> >     Just so I'm 
    clear on your point of view and for the eyeballing public> > 
    record. Please respond to the following:> >> >Tax cuts 
    generate:> >> >A) More revenue to the US 
    Government.> >B) The same revenue as if there were no 
    cuts.> >C) Less revenue to the US Government.> >> 
    >Oh, just in case, please just answer the above question A, B or C. I'm 
    not> >interested in spin!!> >> >Thanks in 
    advance!> >Lenny> >> >In a message dated 
    5/26/2003 9:27:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,> >c_r@xxxxxxxxx 
    writes:> >> >>Can't let this pass -- the Reagan tax 
    cuts have become a mantra of> >>Republican policy.  Fact 
    is the tax cut of 1986 was accompanied by the> >>collapse of 
    oil prices.  In January '86 prices went from over $25/BO 
    to>$10> >>or so.   The US was using around 
    16,000,000 BO PER DAY.  Do the math.> >>> 
    >>Charles Marchand> >> >> >> 
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