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Hello EarlA,
Your assessment is largely on point but possibly overly focused on the
economics. All action of governments and esp high risk ones are based
on multiple motivations. that's another way of saying multiple
interests of stakeholders converge. economics is a biggie--short term
and long term.
I am a hawk. I have not problem with being imperialist when it suits
the situation for the USA. Whatever it gets called, occupation of
Iraq is in the long term interests of the US. The economics of it are
part of the issue but its much to simplistic to say that is all. The
political risks are huge for Bush. That says to me other things are
afoot. I believe we are much more at war with radical Islam than most
people have come to realize. We will be best served by being able to
fight part of this war (economically, militarily, geo-politically,
intelligence-wise) by having a base in the Middle East. This is a
much bigger deal historically than meets the eye. This will change
the balance of power in the world for decades.
BTW-- as you suggest, one reason why the weenies in Europe are against
the taking of Iraq is that we will find they are in bed with Saddam.
Double dealing skunks.
Best regards,
Jim Johnson mailto:jejohn@xxxxxxxxxxx
--
Thursday, January 23, 2003, 9:02:43 AM, you wrote:
E> First rule is that no (rationally governed) country goes to war unless
E> economic interests are at stake. The Revolutionary war was spurred on by
E> wealthy "patriots" wishing to free their enterprise from the yoke of British
E> ownership and taxation. The British wanted to preserve the flow of cheap raw
E> materials from the Colonies. The French wanted to put a dent in the British
E> and obtain more favorable trade terms for themselves. The wealthy "patriots"
E> in the Colonies were more than happy to rouse the masses to their cause and
E> finance the masses to shed their blood. I say this not to make light of the
E> many true patriots involved in the Revolution, but to show (in a simplistic
E> way) the role of economic interests.
E> There were two world wars. In both cases, US business was making a bundle
E> producing and selling war materials to Europe. The Germans finally began
E> sinking as many US cargo ships as they could find. The match which brought
E> US entry into WW I was the sinking of passenger ships (the Lusitania in
E> particular) which were, according to Germany, carrying armaments destined
E> for Europe. During WW II, US ships carrying armaments and goods to Europe
E> were once again the target of attacks by German U boats which were
E> instructed to avoid passenger ships. However it was the Japanese who
E> provided the match by bombing Pearl Harbor in response to US blockades and
E> embargoes of natural resources in Asia.
E> One should never forget that politics and business interests are always
E> strong bedfellows! In current events, one need look no further than the
E> controversy regarding Iraq and North Korea. North Korea has been selling
E> armaments and (allegedly) chemical weapons for years, is known to possess
E> several "nuculer" [sic] weapons, and poses a truly serious threat to
E> Southeast Asia. North Korea has no economic value because it has no natural
E> resources and has no money to buy anything from anyone. Note that the
E> Europeans are equally as critical of North Korea as is the US. The North
E> Korean problem is relegated to talk. Iraq which undoubtedly has some WMD
E> (which it does not export), is sitting on the world's second largest
E> reserves of oil. Iraq buys lots of stuff from Europe (also US while fighting
E> the Iranians and before invading Kuwait). Iraq is known to have used
E> chemical weapons on Kurds and Iranians, but has not attacked the US or
E> threatened the US. Iraq is now under threat of imminent attack from the US
E> and the first order of battle is securing the Iraqi oil fields. European
E> business has been busy trading with Iraq since the Gulf War: selling lots of
E> proscribed materials and obtaining important oil interests. Naturally, they
E> are pushing European governments to protect their economic interests.
E> Earl
E> ----- Original Message -----
E> From: "TheGonch" <thegonch@xxxxxxxxxx>
E> To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
E> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 6:05 AM
E> Subject: Re: [RT] Market
>> Perhaps I have my history wrong, but didn't the US refuse to get involved
E> until it was attacked by the Japanese?
>>
>> You talk as if fighting the Nazis was an act of generosity, rather than in
E> the best interests of the US.
>>
>> Regards
>> DanG
>>
>> EarlA wrote:
>> Absolutely! Did not mean to slight anyone ... however the French seem to
>> reserve their phobia for the US.
>>
>> Earl
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Andrew Nopper" <tradera@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 9:23 PM
>> Subject: RE: [RT] Market
>>
>>
>> Hmmm ... then I guess the French also owe allegiance to the Indians,
>> Nepalese, Australians, New Zealanders, South Africans, Canadians and
>> British
>> (did I miss anyone?) who also gave their lives in defence of liberty,
E> not
>> to
>> mention the Russians, who gave the most lives, although not directly on
>> French soil. Seems like they owe a lot of gratitude to a lot of people for
>> a
>> lot of time.
>>
>> Andrew
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: EarlA [mailto:earl.a@xxxxxxxxxx]
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 8:51 PM
>> To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: [RT] Market
>>
>>
>> Let's see ... France was happy to tweak the British to further their own
>> economic interests during the Revolutionary War. Very few French
>> actually
>> gave their lives on American soil in defense of American liberty. On
E> the
>> other hand, hundreds of thousands of Americans have given their lives on
>> French soil in defense of French liberty during 2 World Wars. So the
>> scales
>> are in balance and the French can now thumb their noses at America?
>> Hardly!
>>
>> I happen to think that Bush and crew are on the wrong track but I hardly
>> think we need lessons from France!
>>
>> Earl
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Andrew Nopper" <tradera@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 6:31 PM
>> Subject: RE: [RT] Market
>>
>>
>> > ... I guess they figure that they're even after helping you to avoid
>> paying
>> > foreign taxes on your tea ...
>> >
>> > :)
>> >
>> > Andrew
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: BobsKC [mailto:bobskc@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
>> > Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 7:12 PM
>> > To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > Subject: Re: [RT] Market
>> >
>> >
>> > [snip]
>> >
>> > My God ... I just heard that France is going to work with Germany
>> against
>> > U.S. interests. Without America, they'd all be speaking German. I
>> do
>> not
>> > understand the French people .. I never have. Oh well ..
>> >
>> > Good trading ...
>> >
>> > Bob
>> >
>>
>>
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