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I haven't done the math but
a comparison of the return of
30 years of $512 per month of (current $ value) SS payments.
invested at what? 5yr treasury rates?
and then withdrawn at some rational rate at retirement
...............to the current maximum monthly SS payment today.
might help to frame the argument.
and what if the govt can't use (borrow) the ss dollars in the general fund,
will that cause a rise in taxes to make up the short fall?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Johnson" <jejohn@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "ira" <mr.ira@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 9:54 AM
Subject: Re[2]: [RT] One dummy down, more to go....
> Hello ira,
>
> come on, Ira. you know that isn't what has been proposed--at least by
> anyone with half a brain. The Bush plan was limited to single digit %
> allocation to other investments, at the individual's direction, and
> the government wasn't the decision maker (one of the scariest things
> imaginable!).
>
> You might also do the math over a 20 to 40 year period to see what say
> 5% in equities and the rest in 1-2% return government securities would
> have returned vs 100% in government securities. I dare say it would
> be better.
>
>
> Best regards,
> Jim Johnson mailto:jejohn@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
> --
> Saturday, November 9, 2002, 10:20:58 AM, you wrote:
>
> i> The stock market is no place for social security investment. What
would
> i> have happened to the pool the last 3 years? How do you think those on
> i> social security would like a 30% cut in there income. Many would be
living
> i> under bridges right now. If you were 70 to 75, no social security,
depended
> i> upon your assets to live on, how much of your assets would you have in
the
> i> market? Consider that the majority of the investment geniuses are
losing
> i> money and have been in any market except a one way up market. Who
would
> i> they get to run it? Some idiot from academia, an economist or someone
with
> i> a lot of letters after their name. Then they would proceed to lose the
> i> equity and blame everyone and everything but themselves. There are 800
+/-
> i> in this group and I would be willing to bet that there is less then
20%
> i> that can consistently make money and the rest are trying to glean a way
to
> i> do it.
>
> i> In the financial statements of the big brokerage firms. I don't
believe
> i> that any of them made anything in their trading accounts. Look at the
firms
> i> that do billions of dollars worth of business in their own arena and
their
> i> investment accounts are all suffering.
>
> i> The first thing that the government would do is what they did with IRAs
and
> i> retirement accounts and say that you can't own puts, you can't short,
you
> i> can't do anything that would allow anyone to think that stocks could go
down
> i> and hedge against it. You are a traitor and un-American if you bet
against
> i> the stock markets rise. Sorry didn't mean to get carried away, but I
have
> i> never seen anything that the government does end up with a benefit for
the
> i> people it is supposed to govern. Look at the congresses retirement
package
> i> and look at ours. Look at who benefits from most of the legislation.
The
> i> lobbyists with the most money to wave around get their clients the laws
that
> i> benefit them. If Merrill or Goldman lobbied hard enough, who do you
think
> i> would end up managing Social Security? Not with my money.
> i> ----- Original Message -----
> i> From: "dom1_1998" <dominick@xxxxxxx>
> i> To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> i> Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 7:43 PM
> i> Subject: Re: [RT] One dummy down, more to go....
>
>
> >> Hi Ira:
> >>
> >> Privatization of Social Security does not have to be a disaster.
> >> Limits to what one can invest in and percentages can be in place to
> >> protect the investor.
> >>
> >> For ex:
> >> - Limit of 30% of SS for investing.
> >> -Investment products are limited to CD's,Treasuries, Spy, QQQ and DIA.
> >> -up to 100% in Treasurys and CD's
> >> -up to 25% in any of the other products.
> >>
> >> No mutual funds or brokers are favored, no money managers and no
AMTRAK.
> >>
> >> Dominick
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --- In realtraders@xxxx, "ira" <mr.ira@xxxx> wrote:
> >> > Privatizing Social Security would be a disaster. I don't want some
> >> slick
> >> > Enron or Anderson type exec. handling anything I could depend on.
The
> >> > government is bad, but most privately run agencies are a disaster.
With
> >> > luck Social Security could be lucky like Amtrac
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Kent Rollins" <kentr@xxxx>
> >> > To: <realtraders@xxxx>
> >> > Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 5:43 PM
> >> > Subject: Re: Re[2]: [RT] One dummy down, more to go....
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > Exactly what is so bad about W's economic team? I would like to
> >> hear some
> >> > > specifics from Simms and Johnson. Specifics.
> >> > >
> >> > > They got a massive tax cut though a Democratic Senate and they are
> >> working
> >> > > to make them permanent and enact some more. They are working to
> >> privatize
> >> > > Socialist Security. They are working to expand free trade.
> >> > >
> >> > > Those are positives. What are the negatives?
> >> > >
> >> > > Kent
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > From: "Jim Johnson" <jejohn@xxxx>
> >> > > To: "M. Simms" <prosys@xxxx>
> >> > > Cc: <realtraders@xxxx>
> >> > > Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 8:29 PM
> >> > > Subject: Re[2]: [RT] One dummy down, more to go....
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Hello M.,
> >> > >
> >> > > I do agree with you that W's domestic team, esp the econ team, is
weak
> >> > > and ineffectual. I hope he cleans house for the good of the US and
his
> >> > > administration. But your assessment of there pressure on W is
wishful
> >> > > thinking. He is bullet proof for longer than 6 months. The Pitt
> >> > > resignation would have had more political advantage for Bush had it
> >> > > been done the <day before> the election. It would have shown W to
be
> >> > > concerned about corp corruption and all that blather the libs
spout.
> >> > >
> >> > > In my opinion W is perfectly situated for re-election. Market has
> >> > > declined in first two years, rates get slashed. year 3 of election
> >> > > cycle clicks in soon, maybe already. market rallies into Nov, 04.
> >> > > Dem's will put Pelosi in as minority leader. she will embarrass
the
> >> > > Dem's every day. Gray Davis will be a persona non grata by Nov, 04
> >> > > and W will attempt to retake California. Dem's are already
switching
> >> > > parties in the Georgia house. This looks to me like a replay of
> >> > > Reagan's reign--tax cuts, economy pops, deficit that doesn't really
> >> > > matter
> >> > >
> >> > > W's vulnerability is that the economy is so broken it won't respond
> >> > > normally or there's another terror incident that can be traced to
> >> > > missteps of his administration.
> >> > >
> >> > > that's my wishful thinking :)
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Best regards,
> >> > > Jim Johnson mailto:jejohn@x...
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >> > > realtraders-unsubscribe@xxxx
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >>
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >> realtraders-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>
> >>
>
>
> i> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
>
>
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>
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