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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
----- Original Message -----
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From:
Adrian Pitt
To: <A title=realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
href="mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 9:21
AM
Subject: RE: [RT] Re: forecasting-track
record
<FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>Bill,
<FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>
Thanks for some
intelligent conversations for a change :-) I do disagree with you
though..and I'm not talking from a theoretical viewpoint. I've been
applying his techniques on the local market here in Australia..and to be
honest. I've never seen any public material from others here in this country
to remotely come close to the accuracy that Neely has enabled me to
reach.
That's
good, but does not necessarily mean that Neely is in general better, only that
NeoWave works better for you, reflecting I am sure your total approach to
TA. Absent an objective evaluation of the different techniques, all that
we know that all of them work sometimes and fail sometimes. Choose your
poison.
<FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>
This is
well over 10 years of REAL TIME wave counting with all material
published publicly for free on the net BEFORE the event. Now I'm no
guru...and Neely's work isn't black and white, and isn't the be all and end
all...I've never claimed it to be. But it DEFINITELY is an accurate
extension of Elliott's original work...it is NOT a different animal at
all. ALL of Elliott's rigid guidelines still remain...few as they
are. That is the problem...there are so few that people can pretty much
put any count on a chart they like.
Neely has made
wave counting MORE rigid...not totally rigid..there is still much grey.
And of course Neely tries to lock things in concrete!! What use is a
method if there isn't something concrete to it? How many people on this
list can differentiate between a wave 'b' in a flat or zig-zag? Or
decide if it might be an X wave? I can do it easily and accurately
almost every time. It enables me to reduce the number of wave count
alternatives by a quantum leap. I used to believe X waves where a
crock.....now I see they are not..and make perfect sense both logically and
reality wise. 4th waves can and do overlap wave 1's...and there isn't anything
wrong with that....it immediately tells you it is a certain kind of 5 wave
pattern..nothing complicated..just technical.
<FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>
Make no
mistake..Miner's approach is no different to Prechter's and any other Elliott
book out there...ALL of them are exactly the same..simply because they make
little attempt to take Elliott's work to the next level. Neely is the
only one I know who has attempted and succeeded....well for me anyway....and I
only do wave counts on the local equity index..nothing else. Its my
speciality..and has been for over 20 years.
<FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>
<FONT color=#800000
size=2>Miner does not advocate use of X waves and does not have a
heart attack if 4 overlaps 1, etc. In short, Miner argues that Elliott
does not contain inviolate rules, but he does say to be consistent. So
in this regard he is not Prechter, etc. Neely has attempted to put more
rules into Elliott, which is fine, but that does not prove that it
is superior.
How you convert
all this information into trading signals though is another matter entirely
and not part of this discussion.
<FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>
<FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>Adrian
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----From: wavemechanic
[mailto:wd78@xxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Thursday, 11 July 2002 11:00
PMTo: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSubject: Re: [RT] Re:
forecasting-track record
Adrian:
The picture is not so black and white. Neely
has attempted to make EW more rigid by adding rules to each pattern.
In doing so, some argue that he has left EW and that NeoWave is a different
animal. Neely's rules lock things into "concrete," which is its main
problem. Markets are not locked but reflect changing opinions.
Miner's approach is based on Elliott where X waves, 4 overlapping 1, etc.
did not exist. In between there is the "traditional" a la
Prechter. I don't think any can be discarded in the
of
evidence that it is inferior to the others. As with most TA, it comes
down to a matter of personal choice, reflecting how one incorporates the
analysis into a trading "system" and its affect on signal
quality.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From:
Adrian
Pitt
To: <A
title=realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
href="mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 5:18
AM
Subject: RE: [RT] Re:
forecasting-track record
Earl,Miners work is good, but his EW is fairly
simplistic, but he doesput it into a form that can be used by
traders. If anyone truly wantsto understand markets better and
apply Elliott Wave in a far more accurate and scientific way there is
ONLY ONE SOURCE of goodinformation.and that's Glen Neely's
book. I STRONGLY WARN readers though not tobotherWith it
unless EWT really takes your interest. It's a big book andEVERY
PAGEhas critical information on it, so lots of learning and
practicing. Butitworks, impeccably. Its not a book about
trading though, only accuratewavereading.
Adrian> -----Original Message-----> From: Earl
Adamy [mailto:eadamy@xxxxxxxxxx] > Sent: Thursday, 11 July 2002
1:46 AM> To: <A
href="mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [RT] Re: forecasting-track record> > > I
think you make two valid points: know how to do the counts >
yourself and be able to control/apply your own counts when > you
don't like the automated counts. I highly recommend the >
simplified EW approach used by Robert Miner in his Dynamic > Trader
book ($100 with full money back guarantee at> <A
href="http://www.dynamictraders.com";>www.dynamictraders.com) ... I
don't use the DT3 software. I'm > not familiar with EW3 (I did have
WinWaves and didn't care > for it), however AGet which I use,
allows one to control > counts to a limited degree (short term,
aggressive, regular, > long term, plus localize) ... as a last
resort I just turn > the EW counts off and apply my own
labels.> > Earl> > ----- Original Message
-----> From: "wavemechanic" <<A
href="mailto:wd78@xxxxxxxxxxxx";>wd78@xxxxxxxxxxxx>> To:
<<A
href="mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 9:28 AM> Subject: Re: [RT] Re:
forecasting-track record> > > >
----- Original Message -----> From: Karen
Beckwith> To: <A
href="mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 10:16 AM> Subject: Re:
[RT] Re: forecasting-track record> > >
Jeff:> Looking for a holy grail? Have u ever
looked into the EW3 > (Elliott Wave)>
software? I can't find anyone who uses it, but it sounds >
awfully good.> Anyone here familiar w/ EW3?>
> I have not used EWII but did use the previous version
> WinWaves, and EWII is supposed to have a better analysis >
engine. However, a couple of thoughts. What is the correct
> count? There are many counts and in the last analysis the
> only one that is right is yours. So being able to do your
> own count is important, and the software is a tool to >
increase your efficiency and, perhaps, help you over the > rough
spots. Having said that, one important feature that I > would
be sure to have is the ability to input my count and > see how it
plays. Most EW programs do not have this option, > but if I
recall correctly ELWave does. FWIW.> >
best wishes,> karen> ps - May the
force be with you.> :>)>
:>)> > ----- Original Message
-----> From: "jeff97_98_1998" <<A
href="mailto:jprroth@xxxxxxxxxxx";>jprroth@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
To: <<A
href="mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 9:50 AM> Subject: [RT] Re:
forecasting-track record> > >
>> > "If one tries to fight these forces they
will be destroyed. If one> > can unite and redirect
these forces to> > ones advantage, one should be
able to progress quite swiftly.">
>> >> > Sounds like a
re-run of Kung Fu.> > Grasshopper, my son, be of
unity with the universe.> > Now catch this fly in my
soup.> >> > Please enlighten
me, how does one unite and redirect > these forces
to> > ones advantage?>
>> > How do I redirect a drought in the midwest,
terrorist > attack crashing> > the S & P
, lumber import regulations vs. canadian exports?>
>> > Fundamentals, schmundamentals, blah,
blah.> >> > I have the force,
the unity, the polarity...> >>
> Beam me up Scotty, for I have discovered how
markets> > work, yet I waste my time trolling
for fish.> > Why is that?>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> > --- In <A
href="mailto:realtraders@x";>realtraders@x..., "Norman Winski" <<A
href="mailto:nwinski@x";>nwinski@x...> wrote:>
> > Reinar,> > >> >
> From one sailor to another, when one's sailboat hits
> a sand bar,> > that's>
> > called running a ground and that's not a good
thing.> > >> > > I
know it's time for me to take a vacation. Your > sailing
metaphor> > is> > >
starting to make sense to me.<G> Seriously, I agree >
that sailing> > is a good> >
> analogy for trading, but not for the reasons you have stated.
I> > think> > > sailing is
a good analogy for trading because in order to be> >
successful, one> > > must join with the huge
natural forces at work. If one tries to> >
fight these> > > forces they will be destroyed.
If one can unite and > redirect these> >
forces to> > > ones advantage, one should be able
to progress quite swiftly.> >
>> > > Gann fans - the ideal position to
attain maximum speed > is to have> > the
sail> > > at a 45 degree angle to the
wind.> > >> > >
Nautically,> > >> > >
Norman> > >> >
>> > >> > > -----
Original Message -----> > > From: "reinar2020"
<<A
href="mailto:reinar2020@x";>reinar2020@x...>>
> > To: <<A
href="mailto:realtraders@x";>realtraders@x...>>
> > Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 12:33 AM> >
> Subject: Re: [RT] forecasting-track record> >
>> > >> > > >
Elk> > > >> > > >
Not only will I continue to use sailing as a metaphor > but I
will> > > > expand the use. There are several
reasons. Selling to "the> >
traders"> > > > market is too limiting and
more imortant.... If you can think> > like
a> > > > sailor you can think like a
profitable trader......> > >
>> > > >> > > >
If you have ever been sailing you would know that it > is kind of
a> > > > zen like experience where you have a
very specific > focus. All the> >
BS> > > > that is provided by the media etc is
gone.> > > >> > >
> There are other advantages. Any monkey can draw an > Andrews
line> > and> > > > if
you read his totally incomplete "free" 60 page > lit.... at
any> > > > time there are at least 20 or so
that come in > tomorrow. So which> > >
> ones do you use? Rather than take the standard > approach of
here> > are> > > > the
lines .....let get overwhelmed with stuff that is >
useless.....> > > >> >
> > I will focus upon about 3 kinds of sand bars and a
marker.> > > > I did something similar in
Vienna seminars and the > sucess rate of> >
> > the students over a long time period was very
high.> > > >> > >
> Focus upon the chicken ( the end result.. you really > want )
not on> > > > the eggs.>
> > >> > > > We look for 4
things...> > > >> > >
> 1) sand bars (support and resistance lines) where > prices
stop for> > a> > > > bar
or 2 and then go through> > >
>> > > > 2) sand bars where prices go
through and then go back to it to> >
touch> > > > it before continuing in the
proper direction> > > >>
> > > (the above are very handy for adding on positions or
> getting in> > with> >
> > definable risk....the other side of the sand bar
line)> > > >> > >
> 3) and finally sand bars that are likely to produce a >
tradeable> > > > pivot ....like i pointed out
on thursday in an email > I sent out.> > >
>> > > > 4) and then how to find markers
(probable future pivot points)> > >
>> > > > Now instead of learning how to
draw all of those > silly lines you> > >
> learned how to draw lines that produced the above >
.......wouldn't> > > > Andrews really work
.....and very easily at that?> > >
>> > > > Oh by the way did you ever learn
what the Andrews > "ROS" line was?> > >
> Hint....its a sand bar.> > >
>> > > >> > > >
Regards> > > > R> > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > > --- In <A
href="mailto:realtraders@x";>realtraders@x..., Infernal Elk >
<infernalelk@x...>
wrote:> > > > >> >
> > > >> John either you are blind or you faded the
forecast.> > > > > >> ...or
does north mean go short to you?> > > >
>> > > > > >>
R> > > > >> > >
> > maybe if you spoke in market terms rather than > cryptic
pseudo-> > > > poetic> >
> > > "nautical" terms, people would understand
you.> > > > >> > >
> > if your desire is to communicate, then do so >
CLEARLY. if your> > > >
desire> > > > > is to tease and to draw
people in to buy your > product you'll do> >
> > better> > > > > to speak clearly
as well.> > > > >> >
> > > we're not sailors. we're traders.>
> > > >> > > > > -
*lk> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > >
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:> >
> > <A
href="mailto:realtraders-unsubscribe@x";>realtraders-unsubscribe@x...>
> > >> > > >> >
> >> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is
subject to> > <A
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/";>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> > >> > > >>
>> >> >>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:>
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>> >> >>
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