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----- Original Message -----
From: "profitok" <profitok@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 10:45 PM
Subject: Re: [RT] Evaluating other trading methodologies.
> This is why I have challenged the day traders a few years ago,,
> This was my challenge,,
> fax me your broker statements,,
> it must show NO position trades,,
> if you were profitable 4 month in a raw and net 50000,, 100000,,,
> etc
> I WILL MACH it $ for $
> NO ONE fax it!!!
> Ben
Ben,
You must have forgotten me and our little correspondence we had back in
1999.
To refresh your memory, I have taken the liberty of pasting below your
original "challenge", my response, and the few follow-up messages we had
exchanged after that.
I guess I had saved the messages, because your "challenge" stroke me as -
how should I put it- way out there at the time. I see that you still haven't
broadened your horizons during these last 2.5 years. As for me, well, I'm
still at it, grinding it day in and day out, as the sole breadwinner in the
family ;-)
Best regards,
Levent
----- Original Message -----
From: <Proffittak@xxxxxxx>
To: <t-bondtrader@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: GEN: Stop me before I day Trade again!
In a message dated 10/4/99 6:03:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
t-bondtrader@xxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
<< However, the plus point about day trading is that you sleep nights. No
home
work, no worry, no extended lines of credit, no margin calls, no Elliott or
Gann or forward guessing the market. It is just trading what you see in
front of you, when the market opens. You don't need a complicated sytem
or
program and back testing or any of the sophisticated (so called) tools, or
anyone elses opinion or advice on the market. You can do it all yourself,
for yourself and, what is more, live to tell the tale.... It may not be
easy, but when it comes to earning a living, what is? >>
good morning
even seasoned traders LOSE the war in day trading
it takes a GRATER toll on your emotions stress is greater
and if you do not make your 1.5 million in2=3 years
YOU WILL BURN OUT
(both mentally and financially)
i do not care how good your m/m is. the POWER to acually pick up the
phone and close position at a loss IS the real test of mony mgt
I even tried a combo of 50/50 (50 day trade and 50% of capital position
trade)
results even more stress,, which resulted to LARGER losses
if ANYONE on this list can fax me copies of their statments with 1 year
of CONSISTANT day trading proffits.
and i mean 8 out of 12 month, and made at least 100% increase on their
original capital , I will mach and GIFT them 100% of their original
capital and take my hat off and bow,,
happy trading
Ben
----- Original Message -----
From: "Levent Erbora" <erbora@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <Proffittak@xxxxxxx>
Cc: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 1:54 AM
Subject: RE: GEN: Stop me before I day Trade again!
Hi Ben,
Are you really serious with this challenge? Because, if not, don't make me
go over all my statements and prepare a package for you.
I have been daytrading stocks for a living for over 2 years now. I have a
wife and a son, and our ONE and ONLY source of income is my trading profits.
And I am doing it on a very very modest amount of capital. I am sure, if I
throw out the extremely rare position/overnight trades and a few option
trades (which have been mostly LOSERS), my return on capital will be way
above 100%.
By the way, I used to swing trade (for over 10 years), but when I quit my
cushy corporate job to become a full time private trader, I quickly found
out that position trading was NOT the way to go to make a living. No matter
how good you are, the risks and drawdowns are just not acceptable when you
are trying to make a consistent income and pay bills (especially with a
small capital like I have).
And stress for me is to go to bed with a position in my hand. On the other
hand, starting each day with a clean slate is pure joy.
And the reason why I don't manage millions of $$ with a track record like
this??? Because I can't.
I couldn't even manage my mother in law's money. Too much stress and too
much responsibility, accountability, etc. I like my freedom, don't like to
answer to anybody, don't like red tape, can not stand any bosses or
customers, etc. etc.
Please let me know and also provide a mailing address.
Best regards,
Levent
----- Original Message -----
From: <Proffittak@xxxxxxx>
To: <erbora@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 6:21 AM
Subject: Re: GEN: Stop me before I day Trade again!
>>
good morning
you are a true champ as the fax only got 1 reply which do not qualify
as it only shows
1 month
also it does not qualify as it trades other peoples money
your is border line
you only trade stocks
realtraders 99% are futures
will be willing to pay you
starting 11/01/99 e mail me for 30 days privetely your day trade BEFORE
the mkt open
with a: at what price you will tke proffit
and b: at what price you will bail out at a loss
regards
Ben
----- Original Message -----
From: <Proffittak@xxxxxxx>
To: <erbora@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 6:51 AM
Subject: Re: GEN: Stop me before I day Trade again!
In a message dated 10/8/99 2:25:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
erbora@xxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
<< Hi Ben,
Thank you for the compliment :-)
But I can not do what you want me to do, because even I don't know what
trades I am going to make that day
BEFORE the market open. Old habits die hard, so I still do some homework
the
night before just like I used to do
when I was swing trading, and try to come up with some plays for the next
day, but believe me, 99.9% of the time
I end up playing totally different stocks, whatever is moving that day,
whatever is "in play", whatever I come across
during the day, etc. I usually make 5 to 10 round trip trades a day,
holding
a position between 3 to 15 minutes at most.
I try to limit losses at 1/16 or 1/8, take profits anywhere from 1/8 to a
couple of points, whatever the situation calls for.
That is the beauty of daytrading stocks, there are always some stocks
moving
up big or moving down big,
for whatever reason, regardless of what the overall market is doing.
It is OK though, I don't want your money :-)
I just wanted to let you know that profitable daytrading can be done, IS
being done. I've seen a number of people who are doing much much better than
I am. I agree that it is not easy, actually I think it is the hardest way to
trade. I also agree that you can make more money position trading if you are
a good trader and have a sufficiently large capital, but when it comes to
minimizing risk, a consistent income stream with minimal capital, nothing
can
beat daytrading in my opinion.
Best regards & happy trading,
Levent >>
thanks for the insight
happy trading
enjoy your family
Ben
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