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----- Original Message -----
From: "profitok" <profitok@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [RT] RT:ODDBALL/using options for overnight positions
> Hello
> I have tried that in the past
> buying 4 in the money calls for SP and NASDAQ
> however
> when you sell a call that was 5 which is now 23 bid 25 ask is a
loss
> of 2 points times 4 options which is 8 points
> anotherwords expensive price calls are NOT liquid
> regards
> Ben,
If you can't get out of a deep in the money call for a reasonable amount,
short the underlying. You can then, at your convenience, either unwind the
resulting spread,
wait for the market to make a big reverse and make more money, or if all
else fails, exercise your calls to make it all go away. The difference is
that this way you don't incur extra expenses until toward the end and then
only if needed. The way you did it, you pay upfront and commit to pay more.
Cheers,
Norman
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Norman Winski" <nwinski@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 6:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [RT] RT:ODDBALL/using options for overnight positions
>
>
> > Prof,
> >
> > What's the dif between your stated strategy and buying a call for $5?
> > Sound to me that you could have simplified and saved some commissions.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Norman.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "profitok" <profitok@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 7:16 PM
> > Subject: Re: [RT] RT:ODDBALL/using options for overnight positions
> >
> >
> > > Hello
> > >
> > > AN EXAMPLE IS WHAT JUST HAPPEN IN THE LAST 2 DAYS,, I BOUGHT 4 BIG
SP
> > AND
> > > 4 BIG NASDAQ,, (WHEN SP TRADED 1055-1065)
> > > AND NASDAQ AT 1360-1370,,)
> > > AND immediately ALSO BOUGHT 4 SP NOV 1050 PUTS AND NOV 1350 PUT
> ON
> > > NASDAQ,,
> > > WHEN I HAD 20 POINTS PROFIT ON SP500 I SOLD BOTH THE PUTS AND
> FUTURES
> > > SAME WITH ND01Z SOLD AT 40 POINT PROFIT AND SOLD PUTS TOO
> > > THE LOSS ON THE PUTS WAS OVER $5000 but you can figure my net in 2
> days
> > > and the beauty is
> > > when it goes against you your max loss is only 5 points per
> contract,,
> > > EVEN sleep good at night,, because you know the most you can loose
is
> > ,,,
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "BobR" <bobrabcd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 1:30 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [RT] RT:ODDBALL
> > >
> > >
> > > > Last year when Mark published his article in Active Trader I asked
him
> > > about
> > > > stops, particularly the risk of overnight exposure. He acknowledged
> the
> > > > inherent risk, but he also said that was one of its strengths in
that
> > the
> > > > gaps tended to benefit it more so than not. He also emphasized the
> > basic
> > > > system was an example of how simple a system could be and yet be
quite
> > > > profitable in the long run. Yet, who in the real world can trade
> > without
> > > > stops? He also planned followup articles enhancing the system.
> > > >
> > > > Since the OddBall system samples hourly during the day session, it
> > leaves
> > > > you exposed for an entire hour at a time plus overnight.
Commissions
> > are
> > > > low these days so exiting end of day and re-entering the next day is
> one
> > > > option. Another is to put on an option hedge before the close and
> > taking
> > > it
> > > > off the next morning, Ben or IRA could explain the details of this.
> > Since
> > > > the Oddball has time filter qualities try using a time based type of
> > stop.
> > > > Intraday try using a "multi-timeframe" type of channel. Suppose you
> are
> > > > using 3 minute bars and using Charles Johnson's array sampling
> > > > code(excellent stuff) then create a highest high and lowest low and
> > > midpoint
> > > > channel to protect you during that hour long exposure. Twenty bars
> > would
> > > be
> > > > one hour so a midpoint line based on the highest high and lowest low
> > might
> > > > be of value. I haven't backtested this with the oddball system, but
> > have
> > > > been watching it today. Problem is, the oddball system is optimized
> for
> > > > simplicity and additions to the code may detract from its
performance.
> > > > That's the tradeoff. Another thing you might try is not taking the
> > first
> > > > 9AM ET or 8AM CT trade until another half hour has passed. The
reason
> > is
> > > > the two half hour drives that occur are one source of the whipsaws.
> > > >
> > > > plot1(Highest(H,20),"H");
> > > > plot2(0.5*(Highest(H,20)+Lowest(L,20)),"Mid");
> > > > plot3(Lowest(L,20),"L");
> > > >
> > > > Use the Mid line for a stop and re-entry in the direction of the
> current
> > > > Oddball signal.
> > > >
> > > > bobr
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Eliot Kaplan" <eliot@xxxxxxx>
> > > > To: "RealTraders Mail List" <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 9:53 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [RT] RT:ODDBALL
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Michael,
> > > > >
> > > > > I just started following the Oddball about a week ago, and it has
> had
> > > > > 2 great signals (20-30+ point winners), followed just the last day
> or
> > > > > so by 2 that were small losers, and today's which remains in
> process.
> > > > >
> > > > > It seems quite remarkable overall.
> > > > >
> > > > > I myself am wondering how to trade it using a stop. I can't trade
it
> > > > > without one for obvious reasons, and have been considering a 10
> point
> > > > > SP emini stop as perhaps wide enough to stay out of it's way. I'm
> not
> > > > > a backtester, so I imagine, others have tried to test this, and
it
> > > > > would be interesting to hear BobR or others comment on the use of
> > > > > stops with Oddball.
> > > > >
> > > > > Essentially, does a stop ruin it? And what lengths show best
> results?
> > > > >
> > > > > Eliot
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >BobR, or anyone following oddball? wonder if it got whipsawed
> > > yesterday,
> > > > > >thought $ADV was advertising close on high.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Pretty choppy SP. Looks like expiration. Looks like Earl nailed
it,
> > ND
> > > &
> > > > SP
> > > > > >clashing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > >realtraders-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > > > > Eliot Kaplan
> > > > > 20211 Croydon Lane
> > > > > Topanga, CA 90290
> > > > > Voice: 310.455.3810
> > > > > Fax: 310.455.3085
> > > > > email; eliot@xxxxxxx
> > > > > web: www.isu.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > realtraders-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> > > >
> > > >
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> > > >
> > >
> > >
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> >
> >
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>
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