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I can't direct you to a discussion, because I don't know of any books or papers that were written specifically on this subject. There are
several things that you can look at to ideas on this phenomena. There is Hurst's book on cycles for one, and there is some Gann and Eliot that
might help you. Basically you should look for the angel of assent or dissent of price. this can be set up in channels so that you have an
idea of momentum in the direction you are looking at. The steeper the angle the greater the momentum and the later in the cycle the high will
appear. The reverse is true for down markets. Here is a 3 min. chart of the S&P for today showing a 17 bar cycle. Look at where the highs
occurred relative to the cycle start and cycle finish for the legs up and for the legs down. That is what translation is, the movement of the
high from the beginning of the cycle to the end of the cycle depending on whether you are in an up move or a down move. That is one of the
reasons that cycle are always measured from low to low. Now look at symmetry. From the start of the cycle count you have 3 cycle up and 3
cycle down with the high exactly in the middle. What should you expect from the next 6 cycle move? It should appear as a channel with little
upside potential. Being the low at the end of the 6 cycle move was lower then that at the beginning, the rally shouldn't take out the high and
the next leg down should be lower then the first leg down. A simple application of Gann's measured move theory. Usually the greater the
momentum of the move the earlier or later the high, depending on whether the move is up or down. I hope that this helps explain the theory
behind translation. Ira.
ChasW wrote:
> Ira, pls direct me to some dicussion of translation. If I remeber correctly
> it has to do with the identifcation of a bullish or bearish tend, but
> evaluating the rate of change of the up vs down moves. a bull trend grinds
> upwards against the wall of worry with short severe corrective drops and the
> bear is the opposite?
>
> Chasw
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ira Tunik" <irat@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 4:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [RT] Case for the bulls-Maybe there is a case for both the
> bulls and the bears?
>
> > Symmetry means that the right and left side of something are alike. with
> the markets this is not true. If the market is rallying then the
> > high will usually occur during the last half of the cycle, sometimes on
> the very last bar. In a down market then the high comes during the
> > first half of the cycle. There is no symmetry. The lows should be
> equally spaced at 10 bar, 15 bar or # bar cycle, but the cycles are not
> > symmetrical in their individual shape. The second down leg could be
> symmetrical with the first, etc. but to call an up leg symmetrical to a
> > down leg is usually not true because of the translation of the highs.
> >
> > "Dorothy K. Carter" wrote:
> >
> > > IRA: While I expect a rally into Nov 1, NDX has given the following
> > > downside targets:
> > > 1137.25 787.08 .......... Pls explain why I forgot about
> > > translation????? Best, Dorothy
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Ira Tunik" <irat@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 11:08 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [RT] Case for the bulls-Maybe there is a case for both the
> > > bulls and the bears?
> > >
> > > > You talk about symmetry and forget about translation.
> > > >
> > > > "Dorothy K. Carter" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I agree the next leg down ... there will be no place to hide... The
> DJIA
> > > > > will most probably be taken down harder than NAZ.... To get the real
> > > idea of
> > > > > where NDX is at take a look at monthly chart symmetry would
> suggest
> > > that
> > > > > if a rally ended Fri. with the sharp reversal as suspected, then
> that
> > > high
> > > > > would be equal to monthly high of 7/31/98 1485.97. As stated
> > > before...
> > > > > with US$ turning down it's the foreign sellers that we have to worry
> > > > > about.... The U.S. investors have shown resolute and won't
> capitulate
> > > until
> > > > > Sept. lows are taken out most probably....... Have a great week
> > > > > trading............ Dorothy
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Rakesh Sahgal" <r_sahgal@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 1:00 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [RT] Case for the bulls-Maybe there is a case for both
> the
> > > > > bulls and the bears?
> > > > >
> > > > > > Am attaching two charts using Clyde's adaptive stoch indicator on
> the
> > > > > D/W/M
> > > > > > time frames. Seems that the tech bust is almost finished and as
> Earl
> > > had
> > > > > > suggested a while back the "REAL" economy stocks in the DJI are
> the
> > > ones
> > > > > in
> > > > > > serious trouble now.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Rakesh
> > > > > >
> > > > > > At 09:34 AM 10/28/01 -0800, you wrote:
> > > > > > >Hi All,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >IMHO, speaking only to the NDX, the bears are quietly, slowly
> > > > > > >being squeezed hard. Unless some serious exogenous (external)
> > > > > > >event occurs they seem about to have their heads handed to
> > > > > > >them. Anthrax news has not been even nearly strong enough to
> > > > > > >stop this. 5 min NASDAQ adv/decl volume bars have been clearly
> > > > > > >bullish for a couple weeks. Additional support comes from the
> > > > > > >bears quietly changing their retest the lows in October
> > > > > > >prognostications to retest the lows in November/December. I'm not
> > > > > > >saying the long term downtrend has changed, nothing's different,
> > > > > > >bearishness seems justified.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >But, unless I had a solidly profitable short position or just
> > > > > > >went short in the last few days with a close stop, I would be
> > > > > > >losing sleep now.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Maybe I'm wrong. This market has shown the absolute minimum of
> > > > > > >bullishness possible every step of the way this year. But that's
> > > > > > >the beauty of day trading NDX futures. It means never having to
> > > > > > >care which way the market goes so long as it moves 8-).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >regards,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >tbr
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >_________________________________________________________
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