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yup.. they are in the business to make money we agree on
that..........Remember IRA until late 70's the brokerage firms got away with
abuses that they can't now.. I remember back prior to computer sweeping of
credit balances into money markets that the brokerage firms got away with
earning interest on client's free credit balances...... they got their hands
slapped and were forced to not earn float on client's free credit balances
if the broker was lax and did not get the balances moved over into a money
market fund on settlement.. soooooooo.. yes they are in the business to make
money which was my first post....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ira Tunik" <irat@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2001 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: [RT] VERY HEAVY BLK activity ON MSFT
> It is only the public that doesn't earn interest on short stock. As a
market maker I earned broker loan rate on the cash received from short
> stock. During high interest periods you could earn more money being short
stock then by trading. Especially after puts, because that made the
> reversal a relatively riskless marginless transaction. Also after several
changes back and forth, market makers only had to have cash to cover
> risk, not the margin amounts that the public was subject to. Many
brkerage firms did the same thing through their floor operations. Generate
> cash from short stock and loan that money to their margin account
customers. The buying public became your bank. Things may have changed in
> the past few years, but I don't think so. If there is a way to make a
buck at the expense of the public, the firms will figure it out.
>
> Dorothy Carter wrote:
>
> > No doubt business picks up in bad markets.... no one is saying that the
> > brokerage firms don't make money from stock loans... as I stated
earlier....
> > that's why they do it. One of the things I ask when I call for ok to
short
> > a stock is to see if it is busy or if very many brokers are shorting
> > stocks... I use it like most use a put to call ratio.. some days if I'm
not
> > shorting I call just to see how business is going just to see what their
> > business is like so I'm aware obviously after 27yrs in the biz. I would
> > still maintain that the average broker does not short and that many that
do
> > have only a few sophisticated clients that do. Most brokers have gone
to
> > fee based busines vs comm.. .. I'm curious why the thought out there
would
> > be that the brokerage firms would not charge interest on margin
acct..(that
> > would be like going to a bank and not expecting to be charged interst on
a
> > loan and if fact int rates at brokerage firms are often lower than loans
> > that you can get at a bank!!! so don't know that "rip off" as suggested
by
> > Norm is accurate)..to my knowledge there is not such thing as a "stock
loan
> > fee" as suggested in Norm's post... you are charged margin interest
> > though. anyway.. Thank God Monday is coming so we can get back to
market
> > trading ideas .. This thread is getting old..
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Infernal Elk" <infernalelk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2001 2:47 AM
> > Subject: Re: [RT] VERY HEAVY BLK activity ON MSFT
> >
> > >
> > > >> NW: No, they are loaning the stock so they can earn the stock loan
> > fees such
> > > >> as interest on the credit balance. This source of income often
exceeds
> > the
> > > >> commission end of the biz. Given the recent deep discounts on
stock
> > > >> commissions, I am sure the stock loan fees and interest they rip
off
> > from
> > > >> the public is more important than ever as a source of income.
> > >
> > > <unlurk>
> > >
> > > having worked in back offices on & off in the past, i have to say that
> > > stock loan (equities) & repos ("fixed" income) can be a *substantial*
> > > source of financing at relatively little risk to a large firm,
> > > depending on the sophisication of the software systems that enable the
> > > stock loan or repo desks (stock loans are essentially equity "repos")
> > > to manage the huge volumes of stock in & out of the firm's box hourly.
> > >
> > > some of the stock loan desks i have seen rival some proprietary
> > > trading desks in number of personnel. and the stock loan folks are
> > > just as busy, sometimes busier!!!
> > >
> > > it's not as sexy as the proprietary side, but in bad years, the stock
> > > loan & repo desks subsidize the proprietary traders' bonus pools -- no
> > > joke! i've seen it happen often enough at bonus time. stock loan is
> > > steady money.
> > >
> > > - *lk
> > >
> > > <relurk>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >
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http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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> >
> >
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