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----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Goncharoff
To:
Cc:
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2000 7:44 AM
Subject: Re: [RT] Re: Plunge Protection team [Fwd from Steve Poser]
> I, for one is waiting for this 'track record'.
It will be published in the same paper as Clinton's sexual exploits.
>
> I would love to see a list of markets 'rigged' by the government and when.
>
Currency, and equities.
> As for the bailout of a failed hedge fund, if you mean LTCM, you clearly
seem to
> ignore the fact that it was done very publicly (that's why you know
about), and
> that the original investments were wiped out, although the subsequent
> investments, made by mostly the same entities who invested originally,
were
> profitable. No gov't money was used (unlike, say, the Chrysler bailout,
the S&L
> bailout), AG just brought the parties to the table and made them stop
posturing.
The original investments were not wiped out, they were able to stay in their
positions and after Easy Al Greenspan, father of the greatest speculative
mania known to the markets, cut the rates 3 times in rapid succession and
the market "stabilized", LTCM's positions swung back.
>
> Frankly, your own arguments would support the conclusion that AG is
pleased by
> the recent declines, since it removes pressure from him to have to act.
But that
> would get in the way of the conspiracy theory, I guess...
>
Frankly I do believe that Easy Al is glad to see some air released from the
bubble. Who said anything about a 'conspiracy' ? It is known FACT that
governments manipulate their markets, especially inept ones that have
mismanaged the economy and are now faced with the threat of the collapse of
their equity bubble. Japan did the same thing to prop up their market to
prolong the time it took for the ultimate undoing. The same is going to
happen here, they are just prolonging the inevitable. Open your eyes,
read the news, and then you
just might understand the box they have painted themselves in, and the
desperate measures they would go to to keep the great ponzi scheme going
just a little longer.
> Regards
> DanG
>
> James Taylor wrote:
>
> >
> > Given their track record on rigging every other market and supporting
failed
> > hedge funds, how can you imagine that they wouldn't be trying to put a
floor
> > on this market ?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Bill Bancroft
> > Cc:
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 8:40 AM
> > Subject: [RT] Re: Plunge Protection team [Fwd from Steve Poser]
> >
> > > You criticize Poser for not giving reasons or facts to back up his
> > position, but I do not see
> > > any reasons or facts supporting YOUR argument, either. Answer this
one
> > question:
> > >
> > > What proof do you have that the Fed is buying S&P futures contracts?
> > > Assuming the govt is not very competent in most areas, why would they
be
> > competent in this
> > > area? Assuming they bought at the "right" time, when would they sell?
> > >
> > > Bill Bancroft
> > >
> > >
> > > James Taylor wrote:
> > >
> > > > Poser's rank opinions means jack, they are just that, opinions. He
> > offers
> > > > no reasons or fact to back them up. His views on this prove to me
just
> > how
> > > > little this man knows. If the Fed ACTIVELY rigs the currency
market,
> > > > practically weekly in convert with Japan, and raises the money
supply at
> > > > every sign of market weakness, how/why is it so unbelievable to you
that
> > > > they do not have a team buying futures to spark buy programs with
our
> > tax
> > > > dollars ?
> > > >
> > > > Not only is it likely, it is a surety. Especially given their
total
> > > > reckless monetary policy, destructive trade deficit, and massive
> > government
> > > > debt. They know damn well that they better rig the markets to
support
> > them.
> > > > I do believe that eventually, the market will prove bigger than they
> > are,
> > > > one can only hope that their reckless policies will not go
unpunished.
> > > >
> > > > James Taylor
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Dennis Holverstott
> > > > To:
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 7:24 AM
> > > > Subject: [RT] Re: Plunge Protection team [Fwd from Steve Poser]
> > > >
> > > > > Dennis - From this email address, I cannot post to the list. Could
you
> > do
> > > > it
> > > > > for me? Thanks, Steve Poser
> > > > >
> > > > > The moron newspaper reporters out there than think there is a
plunge
> > > > > protection team buying stocks or futures should be hung from the
> > highest
> > > > > rafters. While there is no doubt that there is a team of people at
the
> > Fed
> > > > > and Treasury that monitor the markets, I'd say that the odds that
they
> > are
> > > > > actually in there buying futures is somewhat lower than the odds
of
> > John
> > > > > Rocker receiving a standing ovation at Shea Stadium on June 19th
when
> > he
> > > > > arrives there with the Braves.
> > > > >
> > > > > It is absolutely amazing that people believe this. Might the
Treasury
> > > > (more
> > > > > likely than the Fed) call Goldman Sachs or Merrill Lynch and ask
if
> > there
> > > > is
> > > > > a place to buy? Maybe. But, even governments cannot turn markets
> > around.
> > > > > Look at Hong Kong in 1997/1998. They bought all the way down to to
> > 6000 or
> > > > > so. Remember the European currency crisis in the 1990s? All the
> > central
> > > > > banks were trying to prop up the trading bands, and could not stop
the
> > > > > markets from going where they were supposed to go (admittedly, FX
is
> > much
> > > > > larger than equities). If the market wants to tank, it will tank.
If
> > it
> > > > does
> > > > > not want to tank, it will not tank.
> > > > >
> > > > > To add to this, if we use 1/2 our brains and eliminate the totally
> > > > assinine
> > > > > idea that the government or the Fed is buying futures or stocks,
then
> > the
> > > > > idea that the brokerage or banking community could turn it is so
> > stupid
> > > > that
> > > > > it does not even merit consideration.
> > > > >
> > > > > What can the Treasury do? Nothing quick. Change laws I guess and
> > jawbone
> > > > the
> > > > > markets. The Fed can flood the banks with liquidity. That is what
they
> > did
> > > > > in 1987. I have not checked the data, but I doubt that is what
> > happened (I
> > > > > guess we will find out tomorrow with the weekly M's though the
> > conspiracy
> > > > > theorists will note that of course that data will be hidden -- I
guess
> > > > that
> > > > > Fed has a Swiss bank account!). It would make little sense that
the
> > Fed is
> > > > > trying to push the market higher, since they are concerned about
it
> > being
> > > > > too high (though I suspect a stock market crash creates more
> > imbalances
> > > > than
> > > > > minor inflation). They might desire to see less volatility, but
they
> > might
> > > > > not know how to do that anyway. They intervene in bonds and
currencies
> > in
> > > > > public and prescribed ways (actually Treasury does the currency
trades
> > > > with
> > > > > the Fed acting as the agent). There is nothing public about this
(of
> > > > course
> > > > > it is illegal and is not happening, which explains why it is not
> > public,
> > > > > because it is not happening).
> > > > >
> > > > > The other part of the idea, that they are buying S&P futures is
just
> > too
> > > > > laughable. If futures get rich, there must be follow through
buying in
> > > > > stocks, or the markets just fall back. Remember, when these
programs
> > of
> > > > > alleged futures purchases are going on, there are always, by
> > definition,
> > > > > program trading curbs on, so the Street cannot even easily buy the
> > cheap
> > > > > stocks to bring about proper parity. More likely then, we would
see
> > > > futures
> > > > > fall back!
> > > > >
> > > > > Usually, conspiracy theories grow out because they are neat little
> > > > > explanations that cannot be explained easily otherwise. They
assume
> > > > markets
> > > > > are rational. They are not. This theory falls completely apart,
even
> > if
> > > > you
> > > > > are willing to ridiculously assume that the Fed or the Treasury
are
> > > > > illegally buying stocks or futures. It just takes a minor amount
of
> > > > thought,
> > > > > something that the idiots in the press hope you never bother with,
to
> > blow
> > > > > this stupidity apart. It is harder to explain the conspiracy
theory
> > than
> > > > it
> > > > > is to explain it away!
> > > > >
> > > > > Steven Poser
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
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