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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>List,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Two stocks, in very strong uptrends, have retraced
to "trigger" levels. I've issued five star buys for NXLK & RFMD.
Among other high profile stocks that triggered today: AMZN, MSFT & SUNW ...
just to name a few.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Steve Karnish<BR>Cedar Creek Trading<BR><A
href="http://www.cedarcreektrading.com";>http://www.cedarcreektrading.com</A></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
</x-html>From ???@??? Wed Apr 05 21:44:53 2000
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From: "Steve Karnish" <kernish@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "RTList" <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Five star buys.
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 21:07:58 -0700
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>List,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Two stocks, in very strong uptrends, have retraced
to "trigger" levels. I've issued five star buys for NXLK & RFMD.
Among other high profile stocks that triggered today: AMZN, MSFT & SUNW ...
just to name a few.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Steve Karnish<BR>Cedar Creek Trading<BR><A
href="http://www.cedarcreektrading.com";>http://www.cedarcreektrading.com</A></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
</x-html>From ???@??? Thu Apr 06 06:49:22 2000
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From: "T-Bondtrader" <t-bondtrader@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [RT] Manipulation...
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 12:45:38 +0100
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>When I was shown around the CBOT and CME by a
member, I was told, while walking through the pits and in the midst of all the
action that the general consensus of the floor was that it was simply "taking
money from the public". The best way of viewing what was going on
was to think of it as a game. The Big Boys (a term I use to cover a
multitude of market makers and movers!) who control everything, could only make
money when the market moves, so they make it move. They take it up
and they take it down. And they make exceptionally good money when they do
it. They are the guys who see both sides of what is going on, as it
happens. Consequently, the small illiquid pits are very loaded against the
public (it is just too easy!) and should be avoided at all costs, but the big
ones could be played as they played them, if, despite the size of your account,
you actually played according to their rules. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Now you have to understand how they move the
market, how they play their game and then play it their way. You have to
put your little pads in their big footprints. It is not point,
for example, saying I use a stop of X ticks according to my wallet, when what
you need to do is use a stop of Y ticks or Z ticks according to where the market
is and where it is going. You not only need to be in the market when the Big
Boys dealing the cards, but you need to be out of the market when they are not
there, too. You can hide quite a sizeable number of contracts in the
bonds that you couldn't possibly do many other markets. You can get
your price going in and coming out, if you trade the way the market moves and
not the way you want it to move. You may be a Little Boy, but you need to
behave like a Big Boy and you can only do that in a very liquid market that you
can afford to be in, in terms of size, range, volatility, spread, etc,
etc. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Of course, the markets are manipulated by the Big
Boys and in that term are a whole host of faceless types, which means a lot more
than just the government or the fed or any other agency. Whether you like
it or not, they do what they do when they want to and that's that!
Some clever people, using all sorts of predictive tools, may be able to say when
they are going to do whatever they are going to do - and if you can do
that, more power to your elbow. If you can't (for any one of a host
of reasons), then all you can do is be in a position to profit from what they
do, when they are actually doing it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I am quite sure that there are some immensely
powerful people around, who can club together at the right time to do what they
want to do in the markets. Trading is, after all, the biggest endeavour
that man does on this planet. It is not so much a conspiracy, as a fact of
life. It is being powerful. For many, many people that is what life
is all about. Since the vast majority are the subjects of the
powerful (not withstanding democracy!) the best thing to do is find out it works
and then gain from flowing along with the power, rather than battle against
it. But, you may say, that cannot be done in many spheres of life, and I
am sure there are many examples where this is right - but it can be done in the
markets, if you apply yourself. You can do as they do, if the market is
big enough and that's about the size of it... </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Bill Eykyn<BR><A
href="http://www.t-bondtrader.com";>www.t-bondtrader.com</A><BR>"Learn to read
the tape"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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</x-html>From ???@??? Thu Apr 06 06:49:24 2000
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Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 14:20:24 +0200
From: Gwenael Gautier <ggautier@xxxxxxxxxxx>
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Subject: [RT] Re: Manipulation...
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Status:
Thanks Bill,
Next questions:
1 - How do you recognize the big boys are in,
2 - how do you recognize what they are doing..?
Gwenn
T-Bondtrader wrote:
> When I was shown around the CBOT and CME by a member, I was told,
> while walking through the pits and in the midst of all the action that
> the general consensus of the floor was that it was simply "taking
> money from the public". The best way of viewing what was going on
> was to think of it as a game. The Big Boys (a term I use to cover a
> multitude of market makers and movers!) who control everything, could
> only make money when the market moves, so they make it move. They
> take it up and they take it down. And they make exceptionally good
> money when they do it. They are the guys who see both sides of what
> is going on, as it happens. Consequently, the small illiquid pits are
> very loaded against the public (it is just too easy!) and should be
> avoided at all costs, but the big ones could be played as they played
> them, if, despite the size of your account, you actually played
> according to their rules. Now you have to understand how they move the
> market, how they play their game and then play it their way. You have
> to put your little pads in their big footprints. It is not point,
> for example, saying I use a stop of X ticks according to my wallet,
> when what you need to do is use a stop of Y ticks or Z ticks according
> to where the market is and where it is going. You not only need to be
> in the market when the Big Boys dealing the cards, but you need to be
> out of the market when they are not there, too. You can hide quite a
> sizeable number of contracts in the bonds that you couldn't possibly
> do many other markets. You can get your price going in and coming
> out, if you trade the way the market moves and not the way you want it
> to move. You may be a Little Boy, but you need to behave like a Big
> Boy and you can only do that in a very liquid market that you can
> afford to be in, in terms of size, range, volatility, spread, etc,
> etc. Of course, the markets are manipulated by the Big Boys and in
> that term are a whole host of faceless types, which means a lot more
> than just the government or the fed or any other agency. Whether you
> like it or not, they do what they do when they want to and that's
> that! Some clever people, using all sorts of predictive tools, may
> be able to say when they are going to do whatever they are going to do
> - and if you can do that, more power to your elbow. If you can't
> (for any one of a host of reasons), then all you can do is be in a
> position to profit from what they do, when they are actually doing
> it. I am quite sure that there are some immensely powerful people
> around, who can club together at the right time to do what they want
> to do in the markets. Trading is, after all, the biggest endeavour
> that man does on this planet. It is not so much a conspiracy, as a
> fact of life. It is being powerful. For many, many people that is
> what life is all about. Since the vast majority are the subjects of
> the powerful (not withstanding democracy!) the best thing to do is
> find out it works and then gain from flowing along with the power,
> rather than battle against it. But, you may say, that cannot be done
> in many spheres of life, and I am sure there are many examples where
> this is right - but it can be done in the markets, if you apply
> yourself. You can do as they do, if the market is big enough and
> that's about the size of it... Bill Eykyn
> www.t-bondtrader.com
> "Learn to read the tape"
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