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Roy,
The note read "From what I've seen of them on his newsgroup".
Bryce's group is predominantly Australian, and is an extremely frank bunch.
If memory serves, this characterization of Australians was initially
explained to me BY an Australian.
You also assumed it was a put down. I can't control whether you see what I
said as a positive or a negative, only you can. If you choose to 'see' it as
negative, only you can choose whether or not you want to keep it.
The same thing is true of the market. We can choose to see a rising or
falling market as good or bad and pit ourselves against it, to be raised on
our own piton.
Or, we can just 'see' it, and respond accordingly.
This is what the Australians I KNOW are like. And I've got a lot to learn
from them.
They'd rather pop someone's bubble than see them commit hari kari in the
markets, and sometimes they pop mine.
The Australians I KNOW have no use for bubbles. They interfere with the
exchange of ideas, and limit personal development and understanding. Most of
the traders IN GENERAL that I know who are making progress seem to see
things this way.
Judging from the way you chose to interpret what I said, you've got certain
'beliefs' about how others feel about Australians. You might want to take a
look at them and see whether they are useful. An apology would only serve to
cover a bubble that may be useful to you to examine.
You can choose to be happy in this life, or you can choose not to be. What I
say shouldn't have anything to do with it. Choose wisely and well.
Darrin
P.S. If you wish to discuss this further, let's take it private so as to
spare the group a flame.
>From: "roykaufman" <roykaufman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Reply-To: roykaufman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: [RT] Re: Bryce Gilmore's Challenge of Astro Trading
>Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:40:14 -0000
>
>As an Australian user of RT I am deeply offended by the comments of Darrin
>Vernier. He is the first 'cyberpig' I have encountered. Could Darrin pls
>define 'politically correct' as his comments seem to be diametrically
>opposite to this concept. Australians are the same as all humans - two
>arms,
>two legs, a brain and in general, extremely well travelled and educated.
>Unfortunately Darrin appears to be representative of the fringe lunatics
>and
>rascists I observe when travelling in the US. Apologies to all Aussie users
>will be accepted and the issue put to bed.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Darrin Vernier <gphx@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 5:45 AM
>Subject: [RT] Re: Bryce Gilmore's Challenge of Astro Trading
>
>
> > Norman,
> >
> > Bryce is not only focused, but also Australian. From what I've seen of
>them
> > on his newsgroup, they don't care to understand what 'politically
>correct'
> > means. Very brash and outspoken. For them, it serves a purpose.
> >
> > Bryce is extremely focused on the hammer and nails that he uses to
> > accomplish his goals. I once tried to talk saws to him and almost came
>away
> > with blisters. I took it personally at first, but then I realized Bryce
>is
> > exactly who he needs to be to do what Bryce does.
> >
> > So is Norman, in an entirely different way.
> >
> > That's 'why' I look forward to both of your postings.
> > Same planet, two different views.
> >
> > As I see it neither 'needs' defending.
> > As long as you both believe that, you both win.
> >
> > And we get to hear both of you return to what you do best.
> >
> >
> > Darrin
> >
> >
> > >From: nwinski <nwinski@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >Reply-To: nwinski@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >CC: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >Subject: [RT] Re: Bryce Gilmore's Challenge of Astro Trading
> > >Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 21:34:36 -0800
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Darrin Vernier wrote:
> > >
> > > > Norman,
> > > >
> > > > >Bryce says, "anyone
> > > > >who uses a clock is a coo-coo. Norman tells time using a clock.
> > > >
> > > > What makes you believe that Bryce isn't using a clock?
> > > >
> > > > If you believe he isn't using a clock then what he uses isn't, to
>you.
> > > >
> > > > >From what I have seen of Bryce, he sees two kinds of clocks.
> > > >
> > > > He learned to tell time with both, and found that FOR HIM, one was
>more
> > > > accurate and applicable to his trading.
> > > >
> > > > The reverse might be true for you.
> > > >
> > > > You're both holding a different part of the same elephant.
> > > > Looking at different aspects of the same clock.
> > > >
> > > > Is it more productive to argue about whether the elephant is a tree
>or
> > >an
> > > > angel, or to see the whole elephant?
> > > >
> > > > Does the same hold true for clocks?
> > > >
> > > > When is a circle not a circle?
> > > >
> > > > Is 3:00 90 degrees? So many trading days? A planetary aspect?
> > > >
> > > > If planets can aspect, can numbers as well?
> > > >
> > > > There is a story about people speaking different languages.
> > > > It is called the 'Tower of Babble'.
> > > >
> > > > When they began speaking different languages they became more intent
>on
> > > > destroying one another rather than noticing that what they both were
> > >saying
> > > > was much the same and that they could each learn from the other.
> > > >
> > > > Babyloningly,
> > > > Darrin,
> > >
> > > Darrin,
> > >
> > > I agree. You have argued my point well. Bryce indicted me for
>using
> > >Astrology, when in fact he apparently is also using Astrology. I am all
>for
> > >learning from others. In fact, I tried to contact Bryce several times,
> > >about 10
> > >years ago, leaving messages on his answering machine. But, he never
> > >returned my
> > >calls. I have not corresponded or talked to Bryce since I briefly met
>him
> > >at a
> > >1989 conference where I was a speaker. Now, out of left field comes
>this
> > >hypocritical attack. He has probably never even looked at a sample of
>my
> > >work,
> > >let alone corresponded with me. He is in no position to judge me. He
>must
> > >have a
> > >list of possible competitors on a wheel, he spins the pointer, and sees
>who
> > >will
> > >be his next "victim of the week". I guess it was my turn this week.
> > >Ironically,
> > >it seems while trying to shoot me, he shot himself in the foot.
> > >
> > >
> > >Cheers,
> > >
> > >Norman
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >To: Darrin Vernier <gphx@xxxxxxxxxxx>, realtraders
> > > > ><realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > >Subject: Re: [RT] Bryce Gilmore's Challenge of Astro Trading
> > > > >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 23:15:54 -0800
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Darrin Vernier wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Norman has an analog clock with hands that say 3:00.
> > > > > > Bryce has a digital clock that says 3:00.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Can you choose which one is right, or is there a different way
>of
> > > > >looking at
> > > > > > this?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > With Utmost Respect,
> > > > > > Darrin
> > > > > >
> > > > > > P.S. Unleash the hounds...
> > > > >
> > > > >Darrin,
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry, I don't understand how your metaphor or analagy relates
>to
> > >the
> > > > >current
> > > > >attack by Bryce on me? A more apropriate analogy would be: Bryce
> > >says,
> > > > >"anyone
> > > > >who uses a clock is a coo-coo. Norman tells time using a clock.
> > >Therefore,
> > > > >Norman is a coo coo. By the way, my clock says it is time to for
> > >everyone
> > > > >to
> > > > >check out my website where I have the latest line of clocks."
> > > > >
> > > > >CooCooingly,
> > > > >
> > > > >Norman
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: nwinski <nwinski@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > >Reply-To: nwinski@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > >To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> bryce-@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > >Subject: [RT] Bryce Gilmore's Challenge of Astro Trading
> > > > > > >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 00:46:17 -0800
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ref:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > http://www.eGroups.com/group/get_traders/146.html?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: Bryce Gilmore & Associates bryce-@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > To: RealTraders realtrader-@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 6:30 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Fw: [RT] Re: Gann the method
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > BG: I am not a member of realtraders but it will be
>interesting
> > >to
> > > > >see
> > > > > > >if they
> > > > > > > > publish this.
> > > > > > > > Bryce.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > NW: Unfortunately for you Bryce, you got your wish. I shall
>now
> > >prove
> > > > > > > that you don't know what you are talking about which will
>surely
> > > > > > > reduce or erase your credibility as a supposed Gann expert.
> > >Please
> > > > > > > see the rest of my reply after Bryce's post.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bryce Gilmore wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To Real Traders,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I hope this is not taken the wrong way by your members -
>and
>I
> > > > > > > trust you
> > > > > > > > will publish it to them for the sake of education.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I am not against people who use astrology in the markets -
>but
> > >I
> > > > > > > don't
> > > > > > > know
> > > > > > > > any who do who make any serious money from that angle.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I got this copy of Norman's email relayed to me so I am not
> > >sure
> > > > > > > which bus
> > > > > > > > he is stepping off. But I do know that Gann was not an
> > >astrology
> > > > > > > freak
> > > > > > > only
> > > > > > > > an observer of planetary phenomena in relation to natural
> > >cycles.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Norman Winski or Norman if you allow me to be personal has
>a
> > >way of
> > > > > > > exciting
> > > > > > > > people into the mysterious, if Norman knows what Gann was
>about
> > >he
> > > > > > > would
> > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > a little less careless with his statements.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Gann was about using the dynamic action of the market to
>find
> > > > > > > resistance
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > support, his planetary studies are related to seasonal time
> > >periods
> > > > > > > between
> > > > > > > > expected change in trend. When one goes into astrology the
> > >options
> > > > > > > become
> > > > > > > > limitless.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So, my message is this, Anyone who believes Gann is based
>on
> > > > > > > astrology
> > > > > > > > should stand back and take another look. Teachers such as
> > >Norman W
> > > > > > > who
> > > > > > > claim
> > > > > > > > Gann was all about astrology are using you and you will
>never
> > >be
> > > > > > > able to
> > > > > > > > check whether their claims have any validity, cause the
> > >astrology
> > > > > > > aspect
> > > > > > > > only repeats about every 25,000 years.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hope this is of use to your group.
> > > > > > > > regards,
> > > > > > > > Bryce Gilmore.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > NW: I will now refer you and the list to a book that is
> > >commonly
> > > > > > > available. Please retrieve a copy of Perry Kaufman's Trading
> > >Systems
> > > > > > > & Methods, Copyright 1978, published by John Wiley & Sons,
>ISBN
> > > > > > > 0-471-03569-6. Please turn to page 202 where Kaufman shows a
>copy
> > >of
> > > > > > > Gann's famous 1948 Soybean chart. Bryce, you see just to the
> > >right of
> > > > > > > the left hand price axis, between 260 and 264? What is that
> > >curvey
> > > > > > > funny looking "4" ? Could it be the glyph for Jupiter? Oh,
>you
> > >don't
> > > > > > > think so? Ok, there is another funny 4 just a little bit
>higher
> > >and
> > > > > > > about two inches to the right. This one has that funny 4
>followed
> > >by
> > > > > > > a "30" and an arrow pointing up and to the right. Bruce, if
>you
> > >knew
> > > > > > > any Astrology, you would know that means that the funny
>looking
>4
> > >is
> > > > > > > the glyph for Jupiter, the 30 means 30 degrees, an the arrow
>is
> > >the
> > > > > > > glyph for the zodiacal sign Sagittarius. Still don't believe
>it?
> > >Just
> > > > > > > check an ephemeris (table of planetary
> > > > > > > tables - translated for pseudo Gann experts like Bryce) and
>you
> > >will
> > > > > > > see that Jupiter was actually at that position at the time
>the
> > >chart
> > > > > > > was drawn. To make a long analysis short, this type of stuff
>is
> > >all
> > > > > > > over that chart. Jupiter, Mars, signs, etc. So, if Gann
>didn't
> > >use
> > > > > > > Astrology, why did he bother to have hand drawn all those
> > >intricate
> > > > > > > Astrological symbols on his Soybean chart? Oh, by the way, he
> > >shows
> > > > > > > Mars
> > > > > > > forming a conjunction with Jupiter right at the top of the
> > >Soybean
> > > > > > > market. Gann's former partner, JC, with whom I spoke with,
>said
> > >Gann
> > > > > > > went short there based on Astrology. JC also said that Gann
>was
> > > > > > > "primarily Astrological". I later had JC confirmed as the
>real
> > >deal
> > > > > > > by Billy Jones and Phyllis Kahn, both who were respected Gann
> > >experts
> > > > > > > long before anyone had ever heard of a "Bryce". You can also
>read
> > >my
> > > > > > > essay, "What You Need To Know About W.D. Gann" on this
>subject
> > >which
> > > > > > > was published with a copy of Gann's Soybean chart with
> > >Astrological
> > > > > > > indications all over it. As you can see from Kaufman's book,
>I
> > >didn't
> > > > > > > plant those Astrological symbols on the chart. My essay was
> > >published
> > > > > > > in Traders's World Magazine circa 1988 and is now offered as
>part
> > >of
> > > > > > > their archive collection. You can check their website,
> > > > > > > <http://www.tradersworld.com> find the archive index, and you
> > >will
> > > > > > > see my name in issue #3 for "W.D. Gann and Astrology by
>Norman
> > > > > > > Winski"..
> > > > > > > So Bryce, I don't expect you to be transformed overnight.
> > >But,
> > > > > > > perhaps if you do your homework, sometime in the near future,
>you
> > > > > > > will realize the errors of your ways and decide to study
> > >Astrology. I
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > may even consider accepting you as my student. Then, you may
>be
> > >able
> > > > > > > to honestly call yourself a Gann expert. Let me know how it
>goes.
> > > > > > > Oh, if you thought the Soybean chart was just a one time
> > >fluke,
> > > > > > > I have alot more of Gann's stuff with Astrological
>references.
>I
> > > > > > > think you must have missed of few of my posting here. Try not
>to
> > >miss
> > > > > > > class in the future. <G>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cosmically,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Norman Winski
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > P.S. Bryce, membership in Realtraders is free, if you are a
>real
> > > > > > > trader. <G> Oh my gosh! I just checked out Bryce's
>wavetrader
> > > > > > > website, http://www.wavetrader.com ( nice plug, huh Bryce?)
>and
> > >found
> > > > > > > the following.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Planetary Research Module: Programmed into the Software.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bryce's new book gives you the methodology and the
>software
> > > > > > > gives you the
> > > > > > > ways and means to research the effect of planetary
> > >phenomenon
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > markets!"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So Bryce, why are you using Astrology in your trading
>products
> > >and
> > > > > > > then criticizing me for using it? Seems a bit hypocritical to
>me.
> > > > > > > Case closed! Bryce, nice joke, guess you were just pullin my
> > >chain
> > > > > > > huh?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: Bryce Gilmore & Associates bryce-@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > To: RealTraders realtrader-@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 6:30 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Fw: [RT] Re: Gann the method
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > To Real Traders,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I hope this is not taken the wrong way by your members -
>and
>I
> > > > > > > trust you
> > > > > > > > will publish it to them for the sake of education.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I am not against people who use astrology in the markets -
>but
> > >I
> > > > > > > don't
> > > > > > > know
> > > > > > > > any who do who make any serious money from that angle.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I got this copy of Norman's email relayed to me so I am not
> > >sure
> > > > > > > which bus
> > > > > > > > he is stepping off. But I do know that Gann was not an
> > >astrology
> > > > > > > freak
> > > > > > > only
> > > > > > > > an observer of planetary phenomena in relation to natural
> > >cycles.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Norman Winski or Norman if you allow me to be personal has
>a
> > >way of
> > > > > > > exciting
> > > > > > > > people into the mysterious, if Norman knows what Gann was
>about
> > >he
> > > > > > > would
> > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > a little less careless with his statements.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Gann was about using the dynamic action of the market to
>find
> > > > > > > resistance
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > support, his planetary studies are related to seasonal time
> > >periods
> > > > > > > between
> > > > > > > > expected change in trend. When one goes into astrology the
> > >options
> > > > > > > become
> > > > > > > > limitless.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So, my message is this, Anyone who believes Gann is based
>on
> > > > > > > astrology
> > > > > > > > should stand back and take another look. Teachers such as
> > >Norman W
> > > > > > > who
> > > > > > > claim
> > > > > > > > Gann was all about astrology are using you and you will
>never
> > >be
> > > > > > > able to
> > > > > > > > check whether their claims have any validity, cause the
> > >astrology
> > > > > > > aspect
> > > > > > > > only repeats about every 25,000 years.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hope this is of use to your group.
> > > > > > > > regards,
> > > > > > > > Bryce Gilmore.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > From: "nwinski" nwinsk-@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > To: vaugh00-@xxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > Cc: realtrader-@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, January 10, 2000 6:59 PM
> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [RT] Re: Gann the method
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > vaugh00-@xxxxxxx wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Of the several texts that address Gann's methods ,
>which
> > >does
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > best
> > > > > > > > > job
> > > > > > > > > > > teaching the subject . What are the groups thoughts
>?
> > > > > > > thanks tom
> > > > > > > > > vaughan
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Tom,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Here is my Gann test. If the teacher doesn't know
> > > > > > > Astrology, they
> > > > > > > > > don't
> > > > > > > > > > know Gann. That should
> > > > > > > > > > eliminate a good portion of the Gann teachers and
>authors.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Here is my Gann tip. Don't bother trying to learn
>Gann
> > > > > > > until you
> > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > very good foundation in the basic principles of
>Astrology.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > You are welcome to contact me by private e-mail if
>you
> > >have
> > > > > > > > questions,
> > > > > > > > > want
> > > > > > > > > > more information, or want to share some very funny
>jokes.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Co(s)mically,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Norman
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > P.S. You will need a good sense of humor if you want to
> > >study
> > > > > > > Gann's
> > > > > > > > > writings.
> > > > > > > > > > He loves to play with
> > > > > > > > > > your brain. <G>
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [Image]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Previous] 146 of 150 [Next]
> > > > > > > > [Image]
> > > > > > > >
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