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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>-----Original Message-----</B><BR><B>From:
</B>Ira <ist@xxxxxx><BR><B>To:
</B>RealTraders Discussion Group <<A
href="mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx</A>><BR><B>Date:
</B>Saturday, January 09, 1999 13:22<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re: Accutrader --
The Truth vs Bashing<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>Bill: <BR>this is one of the most
intelligent discussions I have seen on the subject since I have been in this
group. there are certain trading styles that can be used on or off the
floor. Using multiple time frames is one that can only be used off of
the floor. While on the floor you are limited to the number of stocks,
futures or options that you can trade, depending on the pit you are in. Off
the floor you can select from over 50 futures, 2800 NYSE stocks, and 10,000
NASD stocks as well as over 20,000 options. Who really has the
advantage? ON the floor you have to make a market, off the floor you
pick your shots. Thank you for your input, Ira </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><FONT
color=#000000 size=2>To say that a floor trader *has* to make a market is a
bit misleading. Market making involves very frequent trading. As a result,
market makers without an edge (positive expectation) very quickly go out of
business and those that remain are paid very handsomely for providing
liquidity. If the market in question is zero-sum like futures or options,
someone must be paying the money the market makers earn. It is, of course,
the hedgers and the off-the-floor traders. See Nassim Taleb's "Dynamic
Hedging", chapter 3, especially pages 64 - 66.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>--<BR>M. Edward Borasky <A
href="mailto:znmeb@xxxxxxxxxxxx";>znmeb@xxxxxxxxxxxx</A> <A
href="http://www.teleport.com/~znmeb";>http://www.teleport.com/~znmeb</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>If God had meant carrots to be eaten cooked,
He would have given rabbits fire.<BR></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
</x-html>From ???@??? Sat Jan 09 21:15:49 1999
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Reply-To: ist@xxxxxx
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From: Ira <ist@xxxxxx>
To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Accutrader -- The Truth vs Bashing
References: <001c01be3c20$67b83ca0$a1021ad8@xxxxx>
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Having spent 10 years as a market maker, I will tell you that you are required
to make a market and you are required to be in the pit. Yes, some get away
with trading upstairs. No system is perfect. Like any other sum zero system,
it is only sum zero if you know what you are doing. I would guess
there are as many market makers and floor traders that go out of business
as there are off the floor traders that do so on a percentage basis.
There are some floor traders and market makers that are extremely successful
and there are many that just blow out time after time. Being on the floor
is no guarantee of success. If both parties to a trade know what they are
doing, both can make money using options. Ira
<BR>M. Edward Borasky wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><B><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>-----Original
Message-----</FONT></FONT></B>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1><B>From: </B>Ira <ist@xxxxxx></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1><B>To: </B>RealTraders Discussion
Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1><B>Date: </B>Saturday, January 09,
1999 13:22</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1><B>Subject: </B>Re: Accutrader --
The Truth vs Bashing</FONT></FONT>Bill:
<BR>this is one of the most intelligent discussions I have seen on the
subject since I have been in this group. there are certain trading
styles that can be used on or off the floor. Using multiple time frames
is one that can only be used off of the floor. While on the floor
you are limited to the number of stocks, futures or options that you can
trade, depending on the pit you are in. Off the floor you can select from
over 50 futures, 2800 NYSE stocks, and 10,000 NASD stocks as well as over
20,000 options. Who really has the advantage? ON the floor
you have to make a market, off the floor you pick your shots. Thank
you for your input, Ira</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>To
say that a floor trader *has* to make a market is a bit misleading. Market
making involves very frequent trading. As a result, market makers without
an edge (positive expectation) very quickly go out of business and those
that remain are paid very handsomely for providing liquidity. If the market
in question is zero-sum like futures or options, someone must be paying
the money the market makers earn. It is, of course, the hedgers and the
off-the-floor traders. See Nassim Taleb's "Dynamic Hedging", chapter 3,
especially pages 64 - 66.</FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> <FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>--</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>M. Edward Borasky znmeb@xxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.teleport.com/~znmeb</FONT></FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>If
God had meant carrots to be eaten cooked, He would have given rabbits fire.</FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
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</x-html>From ???@??? Sat Jan 09 21:15:50 1999
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Reply-To: ist@xxxxxx
Sender: owner-realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: Ira <ist@xxxxxx>
To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Accutrader -- The Truth vs Bashing
References: <001c01be3c20$67b83ca0$a1021ad8@xxxxx>
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There is one other thing to consider and that is that the floor trader
is always taking the other side of the trade. the only time that he can
initiate a trade is with another market maker or floor trader.
If a fund comes in to sell you are a buyer. If Cargill is the seller you
are the buyer. If Morgan Stanley is a buyer you are the seller. The
only advantage the futures floor traders have that we don't is that they
can change the rules any time it suits them. Oh, they also know what is
in the book and the bids and offers in the pit. I have yet to see
a futures screen with the correct size or bid and offer price. Every
once in a while the bond pit comes through with the correct numbers.
Ira
<P>M. Edward Borasky wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><B><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>-----Original
Message-----</FONT></FONT></B>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1><B>From: </B>Ira <ist@xxxxxx></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1><B>To: </B>RealTraders Discussion
Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1><B>Date: </B>Saturday, January 09,
1999 13:22</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1><B>Subject: </B>Re: Accutrader --
The Truth vs Bashing</FONT></FONT>Bill:
<BR>this is one of the most intelligent discussions I have seen on the
subject since I have been in this group. there are certain trading
styles that can be used on or off the floor. Using multiple time frames
is one that can only be used off of the floor. While on the floor
you are limited to the number of stocks, futures or options that you can
trade, depending on the pit you are in. Off the floor you can select from
over 50 futures, 2800 NYSE stocks, and 10,000 NASD stocks as well as over
20,000 options. Who really has the advantage? ON the floor
you have to make a market, off the floor you pick your shots. Thank
you for your input, Ira</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>To
say that a floor trader *has* to make a market is a bit misleading. Market
making involves very frequent trading. As a result, market makers without
an edge (positive expectation) very quickly go out of business and those
that remain are paid very handsomely for providing liquidity. If the market
in question is zero-sum like futures or options, someone must be paying
the money the market makers earn. It is, of course, the hedgers and the
off-the-floor traders. See Nassim Taleb's "Dynamic Hedging", chapter 3,
especially pages 64 - 66.</FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> <FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>--</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>M. Edward Borasky znmeb@xxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.teleport.com/~znmeb</FONT></FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>If
God had meant carrots to be eaten cooked, He would have given rabbits fire.</FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
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</x-html>From ???@??? Sat Jan 09 21:15:56 1999
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Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 18:23:07 -0600
Reply-To: joe6964@xxxxxxxx
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From: Joe Frabosilio <joe6964@xxxxxxxx>
To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: TRICKS OF THE TRADE
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Hi Thomas,
Sorry, I haven't heard of Jack Carter "Tricks of the Trade". But If I may,
recommend some books that helped me a lot. Depending on how you would like
to trade.
Dynamic Trading by Robert Miner(1 year money back guarantee), I think this
is great if you want to trade NYSE stocks. http://www.dynamictraders.com
(Time and Price setups)
Street Smarts by Laurence A. Connors and Linda Bradford Raschke, short term
1-3 days. Contact M. Gordon publishing ( use to have 1 year money back
guarantee, check on this)
Hit and Run by Jeff Cooper, daytrading. ( I think 60 days money back
guarantee, M.Gordon Publishing.
If you want Nasdaq Level II, goto http://www.polartrading.com, they have a
free tutorial which gives a very good overview of Level II.
Trade Well,
Joe Frabosilio
Thomas Beck wrote:
> Hello all!
>
> I have been a member of this list for about a year now, but this is
> my first posting. Like most everyone else I'm looking for that way to
> learn the ropes of short term stock trades. I've been searching for a
> way to consistently take advantage of short term moves (who isn't).
> There are plenty of people looking to sell dreamers like me a
> "system".What I'm looking for is a real world practical education. I'm
> not completely new to tradeing, and have had some success up to this
> point, but mostly due to dumb luck, like being in on that latest AOL
> move.
> In my searches, there is a site called "tricks of the trade" by
> Jack Carter" that seems to offer what I'm looking for. The sales pitch
> is slick...too slick, reminds me of those breathless newsletter offers
> we all get in the mail. For me red flags go up any time I start hearing
> "bonus free reports-with membership","act now offers",and "Its easy to
> make money in the market, anybody can do it claims".
> I've wasted money on courses before and would prefer not to repeat
> my mistakes they were either exaggerations of simple ideas or too
> complex and theoretical for practical use. Does anyone have any
> experience with this course, is it for real. Is there a similar course
> or book that would be better.
> Thanks in advance for any response
>
> no affiliation with the above course
>
> thombek@xxxxxxx
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