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On 07/16/98 21:37:30 you wrote:
>
>I left school barely before reaching 18. My first job on a trading desk was
>fetching coffees for the other traders and doing their general grunt work.
>There was one guy who eventually became my mentor and gave me some valuable real
>life lessons treated my like shit for over a year. Nobody sat me on their knee
>and read me the abc of trading. Nobody taught me what a futures contract was.
>Nobody taught me the difference between a market and limit order and slippage in
>a fast market. Not because they didn't want to - it was the way they learnt and
>besides on a bank trading desk, TRADER's DON'T HAVE TIME TO TEACH. (Think about
>this statement when a "trader" offers to spend 5 full days lecturing or teaching
>privately....). Everything I learnt while on the steepest bit of that damned
>learning curve was through watching and asking questions (at the right time -
>try asking a trader a question just after an employment figure.....you're likely
>to get a half chewed bit of bigmac spat unintentionally in your direction..... I
>am speaking from experience here!).
>
>I lived, eat, breathed and slept markets for 2 years (with only 3 days of
>vacation & 2 of sick leave) before I was given full responsibility for a trading
>book. During my time of working for a bank I generally arrived at my desk at
>6:30am and usually did not leave until after 7pm (I was in London so I basically
>arrived at around the time Tokyo was winding down and stayed until NY was close
>to going home). During my 2yrs of "tuition" I had 10-15 traders around me from
>whom I absorbed as much info as I could; some of whom had been trading for 10+
>years.
>
>I am not knocking a formal education - don't get me wrong. I wish I had gone to
>University and stuff. What I am saying is that learning how to trade
>effectively is a real life experience which can only be taught through
>experience itself. That's why I am against approaches like paper trading for
>beginners- it just instills a false sense of security, emphasises reward and
>downplays risk and losses and the negative effect losses can have on the psyche
>and hence on future trades. You can paper trade, but only to test new
>strategies while trading for real.
>
>Think about when you learnt to drive a car. You probably watched a parent drive
>for years before seeking instruction. Then you listened to the instruction and
>then you got behind the wheel with the instructor at your side. You only went
>out on your own when you were competant enought to drive by yourself (and of
>course had your license).
>
>You must be realistic when trying to run up that learning curve. Don't believe
>so called guru's if they tell you your performance will be improved by following
>his/her methods.
>
>I guess if you are unable to adopt either of the 2 approaches I outlined in my
>earlier posting then what I would recommend for a beginner is to read as much as
>you can. Not about "trading" per se but about markets in general. Don't go out
>and buy a book on how to predict future turning points in markets or about
>fractals Get a good book on laymans economics. Read Market Wizards. Read
>interviews with the "big traders". Read about the fixed income markets. Read
>about currencies. Read about derivative pricing. Read the "classical texts"
>such as Reminicences (sp?). Read Niederhoffers book (even though he went bust,
>his book is full of wisdom). And if you want to learn how to control losses -
>read a good book of gambling. Learn to play poker. Read about portfolio
>management. If you want to learn about technical analysis - get some of the
>oldest books you can find - forget those on the bestseller list. The best
>traders around at the moment have been trading for many, many years - they
>didn't have anywhere near the resources that are available now and yet they are
>still the best. Markets do not change - people do as do their perceptions.
>
>Good learning to all.
>
>E.
>
>
>Lionel Issen wrote:
>
>> There have been relatively very few self made millionaires with a college
>> education. Neither Michael Dell nor Bill Gates have college degrees.
>>
>> Lionel Issen
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Richard Estes <rtestes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
>> realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Date: Thursday, July 16, 1998 1:22 PM
>> Subject: Re: Learning how to trade and paying people to divulge their
>> "knowhow"
>>
>> >
>> >You sound like the type that came out of the womb trading. There sure
>> aren't
>> >many of those around.
>> >
>> >Richard Estes
>> >
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: Essan Soobratty <trader@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
>> >metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >Date: Thursday, July 16, 1998 12:18 PM
>> >Subject: Learning how to trade and paying people to divulge their "knowhow"
>> >
>> >
>> >>It amazes me how many people once they have "decided" that they want to
>> >>trade will then fork out many $$ in an attempt to learn various
>> >>techniques.
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
>
I must agree, Althougth I have a BA from NU as well as an MBA from Kellog (NU) it has meant
nothing in trading. In my time on the floor, there were all types, from barely literate to
literally rocket scientists... its the type of person, not the education...In response to other
people selling there systems, one should think twice...I certianly would not sell my methology for
any amount, nor would I sell my propietary software...its my blood and sweat as well as 7 years of
hard work...in response to being self made and not hearing anyone who has made it that has an
education...bullarky....you have now met one, and yes, throuth hard work and the right profile..it
is possible to make an outstanding living in the market...I have had my ups and downs...but would
never trade this lifestyle...yes its a lifestyle far superior to any other...where else can a blue
collar kid from Wisconsin make a better living than most professional athletes and not have the
hype and fame....and still enjoy my youth...
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