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oh my god what a nice guy you are --- your parents can be realy proud of you.
we love you man!!!!
Timothy Morge wrote:
> Richard:
>
> The Mercs orders are great for flexibility. And sometimes, the CBOT can seem
> very archaic. However, some brokers do a great job with basically the same
> orders that you would use on the Merc. I DO use MIT orders on the CBOT, because
> my broker does take them. Is he held? No. First, I don't hold my brokers in the
> sense that I would make them eat a one or two tick bad fill. But then, I think
> of my relationship with my brokers as a partnership. usually, I'll tell my
> broker [yes, I deal directly to the floor when I trade in all markets], 'look, I
> am short 10 bonds and I want to get out when it touches 120 03 here today. So
> buy 10 120 03 MIT.' And usually, he'll be the bid when it gets there and is
> moving down fast. If it looks bottom-ish, he'll take the 04 offer right away or
> maybe for half. Another way to accomplish this is to tell him to be a 120 03 bid
> for 10 with a tick. Again, if I give him a bid for 10 and gets down there and
> starts to sit, I always call back and give him a tick. And if he sees it's quite
> bid, he'll call me right away and tell me it's bid...do I want him to take the
> offer?
>
> Does it sometimes cost me an extra tick or so? Yes. But do I get my fills? Yes.
> Once in a great while, the phone will ring and he'll say the 04's got away from
> him, it's my bid, what do I want him to do [other than get em at 03]. I always
> tell him to just get them. I hang up and scream at my desk and then remind
> myself all the times he sold the high or bought the low for me...
>
> By the way, I always end my day by checking out with the pit and thanking the
> people that check my trades out and asking them to please tell everyone I
> appreciate the work they did for me. And I usually tell everyone in all the pits
> I am trading regularly to have a great weekend, or have a nice Easter, etc. I
> treat them as people and friends. They treat me as a person and a friend. And
> yes, I do send holiday gifts to my brokers. Without them, I don't make a living.
> They don't have to take the orders they take from me. I know they are giving me
> a little extra.
>
> Tim Morge
>
> Richard Josslin wrote:
> >
> > Dear Group,
> >
> > Most of my experience is derived from trading the S&P, at the CME. I use
> > price orders practically exclusively, both on entry (a Limit order) and exit
> > (an MIT order). By using an MIT order on exit, I may sacrifice a few points
> > of profit that I might otherwise receive by using a Limit order in order to
> > obtain the certainty that my order will be filled and I have exited the
> > trade, regardless of what the market may do thereafter. The problem I
> > intend to avoid is where the market approaches and hits my Limit price to
> > the tick and then retraces --- Have I been filled or not? I buying
> > certainty and sacrificing profit.
> >
> > Recently, I've gotten interested in trading the Dow and Bonds, on the CBOT.
> > The problem is that MIT orders are not accepted at the CBOT, as they are at
> > the CME. Some brokers will accept them on a "Not Held" basis, meaning that
> > one must accept the brokers' results regardless of outcome, and they
> > encourage the use of Limit orders instead. I've asked brokers "How many
> > points off my target must I allow in order to guarantee a fill?" They
> > usually say "One, maybe two." (Example: Market at even. I am long and want
> > to exit by selling at 20. Usually, I would use: S at 20 MIT. Here, giving
> > up one point: S at 19 Limit.) Having problems with that little fudge word
> > "usually", I thought that I would consult the Board's official rules and
> > regulations.
> >
> > I looked for the rules and regs on the Board's web site (www.cbot.com), but
> > they are not there.
> >
> > I telephoned the Board and asked to speak to someone about the rules and
> > regs regarding order fills. They transferred me to their Office of
> > Investigation and Orders. I told them my concern and they said that someone
> > would call me back and answer my questions. Shortly thereafter, I received
> > a call from Dean Payton, in that office (312 435-3658), who patiently and
> > cordially spent considerable time with me, for which I am grateful. What I
> > got was as follows:
> >
> > 1. Is there any difference between a Limit order and an Or Better order?
> >
> > Payton: No, they are identical for purposes of the Board.
> >
> > 2. Are there any conditions under which a fill is guaranteed upon use of a
> > Limit order?
> >
> > Payton: No. You misunderstand the rules and regulations. They
> > provide only a standard of "Due Diligence." What that means is that a
> > broker's actions regarding filling an order is considered in light of all
> > the facts and circumstances or the situation on the floor at the relevant
> > time. Therefore, while giving up a point or two off your target price with
> > a Limit order will probably 99% of the time result in your being filled,
> > there are a number of circumstances that could obtain which would result in
> > your not being filled even if the market went through your price by a tick
> > or two or more, and the broker could not reasonably have been expected to
> > have filled your order. For example, he said, fast markets, high
> > volatility, multi-tick price jumps, as well as the execution at the prices
> > past your Limit price being for small volume, for example, one or two contracts.
> >
> > 3. Assume a market that trades in one point ticks, the market is at even,
> > and an order of S at 9 Limit:
> >
> > a) Market trades 6,7,8,9,8,7, and lower.
> >
> > b) Market trades 6,7,8,9,8,9,8,9,8,7 and lower.
> >
> > Payton: These two situations are alike --- you are unlikely to be
> > filled.
> >
> > c) Market trades 6,7,8,9,10,9,8 and lower.
> >
> > d) Market trades 6,8,10,8, and lower.
> >
> > Payton: These two situations are alike --- you will likely be
> > filled, but you can't be sure.
> >
> > 4. So what I'm hearing is that there is no rigid rule, that the rules are
> > flexible.
> >
> > Payton: That's right. There's no rule that guarantees you a fill
> > under all circumstances, even during a "non-fast" market.
> >
> > Old presumptions die hard. Ouch!
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Richard Josslin
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