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prs wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I had a problem getting one of my orders filled recently and am trying to settle
> with my broker. So I thought I'ld ask everyone's opinion - traders, brokers and
> floor traders - what you think is fair and reasonable.
>
> My dispute with the broker invovles an order I placed to sell 5 s&p's at a
> stop price of 935.45 at 9:17 on 9/5/97. The broker admitted to me that the
> order was not transmitted to the floor due to an error by their *new guy* until
> 9:22.
>
> The stop was triggered at 9:19 however, and the market was moving down.
> They filled the order at 9:23 at 932.25, four minutes after the stop was hit.
> This is a difference of 3.2 per contract or 3.2 * 5 * $500 = $8000.
>
> Market conditions were officially *fast*. The broker claims he has three
> minutes to fill the order and, although it was their fault, he's only obligated
> to fill me at the price most favorable to his position during the three minutes
> after the stop was hit or 932.75. So he's offering a credit of 0.5 * 5 * $500 =
> $1,250.
>
> My position is that the order could have been filled at a much more reasonable
> price had it been on the floor. The official CME time and sales ticks are:
>
> 9:19:15 93550
> 9:19:25 93525 <--- this should trigger stop
> 9:19:25 93520
> 9:19:27 93510
> 9:19:27 93505
> 9:19:27 93500
> 9:19:50 93490
> 9:19:51 93480
> 9:19:54 93460
> 9:19:56 93450
> 9:20:01 93425
> 9:20:03 93400
> 9:20:21 93375
> 9:20:22 93350 X (what does this "x" mean?)
> 9:20:29 93375
> 9:20:37 93400 X
> 9:20:39 93375
> 9:20:42 93350
> 9:20:50 93325
> 9:20:52 93320
> 9:20:57 93300
> 9:21:07 93280
> 9:21:26 93275
> 9:21:26 93270
> 9:21:28 93250
> 9:21:38 93275 <---- start of rally back up to 93400
> 9:21:38 93300
> 9:21:45 93275
> 9:21:55 93300
> 9:22:00 93325
> 9:22:00 93350
> 9:22:12 93360
> 9:22:12 93375
> 9:22:12 93400
> 9:22:17 93390
> 9:22:17 93350
> 9:22:24 93400
> 9:22:37 93375
> 9:22:42 93400
> 9:22:54 93375
> 9:22:54 93350
> 9:23:01 93300
> 9:23:25 93275
> 9:23:25 93255
> 9:23:29 93250
> 9:23:31 93260
> 9:23:39 93250
> 9:23:40 93200
> 9:23:48 93225 <--- Order Filled here (?)
> 9:23:48 93250
> 9:23:54 93225 <--- Order filled here (?)
> 9:23:58 93200
> 9:24:16 93225
> 9:24:18 93250
> 9:24:21 93275
> 9:24:21 93300
> 9:24:26 93325
> 9:24:26 93350
> 9:24:37 93375
> 9:24:37 93400
> 9:24:58 93390
> 9:24:58 93350
> 9:25:00 93400
>
> I've seen a lot of fast moves in the s&p's where the prices changes in .25,
> .50 or even 1.00 increments. During these times you can tell by watching
> the ticks you're going to get a lot of slippage on a stop order. But this move
> has several .05, .10 and .20 increments.
>
> My tradestation/signal cable feed showed prices of 93525 93510 93505 93500
> leading me to beleive I should have been filled around 93500.
>
> The liquidity seems good too. There were 167 contracts traded between
> 93520 and 93500 (based on the CME's tick-volume data not shown). There
> were 149 contracts traded between 93450 and 93500, and 304 contracts
> traded between 93400 and 93450. This is a total of 604 contracts traded
> from when the stop was hit down to 93400.
>
> Floor traders: Where do think this order could have reasonably been filled?
NW: The first question is what fill do they owe you? That looks like it
should be the equivalent of a market order 3 minutes after your order
would have been entered, because your stop was hit during the 3 minute
window allowed. Allowing the worst possible fill under these rules and
fast market conditions they could give you a 933.00 fill and reasonably
argue that they are no only being diligent but also generous in their
adjustment.
Now, once this particular problem is resolved, you may decide that
this
firm is not doing a good job of handling your orders. There may be
others
that could do a better job, but that plays no role in resolving the
above
issue.
Let me know if you decide to seek another firm. I am not a broker but
will be happy to direct you to some firms that I personally know will
do a good job for a reasonable commission rate.
Good Luck,
Norman
>
> Brokers: I'm willing to accept responsibility for my mistakes (order screwups,
> "buy" when it should of been "sell", etc). Shouldn't a broker be responsible
> once the order is in his hands? What's a reasonable settlement?
>
> Off Floor Traders: What do you think I should ask for - how should I settle this? How have you had other disputes settled?
>
> Thanks
>
> Paul
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