|
PureBytes Links
Trading Reference Links
|
Wayne/Jan Royal wrote:
> For Mr.Maxey and others that need help, a re-post;
> and a suggestion to leave the axes to grind, on personal e-mail;
> trading is difficult enough without the personal jabs and unloading
> your negativity on the entire listgroup. An open
> mind (and heart) is essential. Enjoy your weekend and relax.
> Life is Very short.
> Sincerely, :)
> Wayne
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: GEN: IQ and trading (Murray Math thread)
> Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 11:22:21 -0400
> From: "Tom Alexander" <gta3@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> As a broker, I have a very interesting viewpoint from which I have
> been
> able to learn and watch other traders both succeed and fail. And yes,
> it IS
> true that most people fail at trading. I define failing as meaning
> they
> reach a point where they give it up. Most quit because they begin to
> lose
> more money than they can afford to do without. Some quit because while
> they
> may be marginally successful in terms of making money, it otherwise
> detracts from their lives to the degree that it is simply not worth
> that
> cost. I have some customers who will trade successfully for a year or
> two,
> take a year or two off, and pick right up where they left off. I have
> customers that successfully daytrade, some that successfully position
> trade, and yes, some that do both. NONE of them are following the
> exact
> same method, computer program, guru, system, oscillator, book, etc.,
> etc.
>
> Get ready!! Here, for the first time ever is the BIG SECRET: They have
>
> learned what works for them and they stick with it. They are
> COMFORTABLE
> with their trading and could care less what I do or don't do or what
> somebody else proclaims to be the mystical secret of the markets.
>
> By the way, the only thing more laughable than some of the promises of
>
> market magic on this list are the vitrolic reponses to something
> either
> ridiculous or useful, but certainly harmless!! I like Eddie's approach
> and
> look upon it as instructional (and actually kind of humerous).
>
>
> The post by 5150 (sorry, I know you've posted your name before but
> I've
> forgotten) below is EXCELLENT. It explains how some people finally
> reach
> the necessary comfort level with their trading that is a requisite for
>
> success. I suggest you print it out and save it.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tom Alexander
>
>
>
> ----------
> > From: 5150@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Subject: Re: GEN: IQ and trading (Murray Math thread)
> > Date: Wednesday, August 20, 1997 6:24 PM
> >
> > HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE?
> >
> > >From everything I've heard or experienced, success in trading
> > is quite similar to success in almost any field; it takes
> > time, effort, and an unrelenting desire to succeed. I've never
> > heard of anyone who was an overnight success. Perhaps they
> > exist, but I doubt it. Others with larger experience have said
> > that it takes 3 years minimum to make a trader, and I tend to
> > believe that's about right.
> >
> > WHAT DOES IT TAKE?
> >
> > Experience, and learning from it seems to be the biggest factor
> > in trader success. There are many different styles that seem to
> > win, from the highly-technical-cognitive to the person who can
> > just trade from watching price action as a number on a screen.
> > And there are those who are hot one day and dead the next. But
> > those who exhibit long term survivability seem to have an
> > ongoing ability to continue to adapt and learn based on their
> > recent experiences and the changes in the market.
> >
> > WHY?
> >
> > Trading seems more like a performing art than deterministic work.
> > Most of us are brought up to believe that you go to work, you
> > put in your time, and you get paid. Our schools teach that there
> > are right and wrong answers. We are conditioned into a black
> > and white binary deterministic world view. This clearly is not
> > the case for trading. In trading, you're more like a hunter.
> > You have costs of going out. When you're out, you may or may not
> > see game. If you do, you may or may not have the ability and
> > tools at hand to take it. There's no guarantees. It's also like
> > being a performer or athelete. You can't predict what the
> > conditions are going to be like or what the other side (if there
> > is one) is going to do. You're live. There are no right or
> > wrong answers.
> >
> > I believe that getting over this binary deterministic reality
> > model is one of the hardest things people must do in becoming
> > traders. It goes against everything our society conditions us
> > to believe. (Buy the car, get the girl; work hard, get the
> > American dream, etc, etc.)
> >
> > Another central realization that is hard for people to get
> > is that traders have control over nothing except themselves.
> > We are hung up on control as people. We try to control our
> > businesses, our spouses or relationships, our children, our
> > lives, our cars, or whatever. Control is almost always
> > directed at things external to ourselves. Make it happen.
> > Make the sale. Get them to do this or that. We're full of it.
> > Traders can't do any of that. The market is like the ocean.
> > It has it's own way. We are like sailors. The wind and tide
> > does what it wants; our lot is to make of it what we can.
> > This also goes against the grain of conventional conditioning.
> >
> > It's often said that cognitive types have a problem with trading
> > because they are given to overthinking a situation. Conversely,
> > it's said that military people often have an edge in trading.
> > Personally, this has been a big challenge for me. Word has it
> > that engineers and scientists are often handicapped by their
> > tendency to look deep into causality, being unsatisfied simply
> > with an empirical approach. I can relate here. To get over
> > this one must learn to balance this curiosity and desire to
> > understand with the knowledge that at times, perhaps most times,
> > simple action even without deeper understanding is more effective,
> > nay necessary for survival.
> >
> > In the military you're typically taught to take action, often
> > without knowing why. You're taught survival and management of
> > risk from a most personal perspective. And you're taught the
> > value of action versus inaction. Officers are typically taught
> > if you're taking fire to advance or retreat but don't just sit
> > and get cut up. Think back to your own experiences and consider
> > how your trading improved when you learned to just simply get
> > out when you're wrong. My own performance took a big jump up
> > when I took this doctrine and applied it.
> >
> > When we can break out of some of these preconditioned ways
> > that are inappropriate to the nature of the trader's world,
> > we achieve a necessary but not necessarily sufficient enabler
> > to trading success.
> >
> > I personally know of nobody who started out this way. It seems
> > we all had to learn from the markets themselves.
> >
> >
> > Wayne Moody wrote:
> > >
> > > At 10:13 AM 8/20/97 -0700, Rick Ratchford wrote:
> > > >I thought Norman brought out some interesting points that I have
> to
> > > >agree with.
> > >
> > > Me too. It would seem that success in the pit or away has little
> > > to do with IQ or education. But what's going on when an untrained
> > > newcomer does nothing but watch a quote display and knows when
> > > to buy and sell? A certain orientation to do the opposite of the
> > > crowd? An ability to see what the market wants to do from the
> > > flow and sequence of trades?
> > >
> > > Who on this list feels that he/she is a natural trader, who could
> succeed
> > > with nothing but access to a quote machine? How do you describe
> what
> > > it is you see? Or is it what you do with what you see?
> > >
> > > Who else has known a natural trader? What was it the trader had?
> > >
> > > Has anyone here started out poorly, but learned how to trade by
> just
> > > watching the market, getting a "feel" for when to trade?
> > >
> > > For the rest of us:
> > >
> > > Is there anyone who has not been deep into studying a method, or
> doing
> > > their own research, and wondered "Geez, why is this so hard"? How
> far
> > > do you widen the search when looking for your own convictions?
> > >
> > > Simplicity does seem to be the thing. Your stuff tells you what's
> likely
> > > to happen next. You trade. It happens or it doesn't. You exit.
> After
> all,
> > > there's only 3 possible outcomes: up, down, or neither. Good
> trading is
> > > reacting properly to what it does.
> > >
> > > Nobody knows the next move. Some people know the probability of
> the
> > > next move. Some of those people know how to speculate on
> probability.
> > > And some of those people can control greed and fear. You can hack
> > > your way out of the loss column with the right attitude, but it's
> > > a long uphill climb. Probably leaving some of us a little jealous
> > > of the pizza delivery boy who stumbles into the pit and discovers
> > > his gift.
> > >
> > > I'd like to see input from those who did well right from the
> start.
> > > What exactly is the nature of this talent?
> > >
> > > Wayne Moody
> > > wlm95@xxxxxxxxxx
> >
|