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Thanks for the feedback Adrian. I'm doing what I enjoy, and that's all I can
say in response to your suggestions. This is just a big game to me....like
Dungeons and Dragons. Yes I have time and money to play, but I don't have a
problem with that as you are saying you would. Just because gambling and
playing games isn't right for you, it doesn't mean that it's not right for
me. Call me eccentric.
If I understand your responses, then you are agreeing with most of what I've
said about day trading systems in the eminis. Thanks for taking the time to
respond.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adrian Pitt [mailto:apitt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 5:21 AM
> To: omega-list@xxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: e-mini day trading systems
>
>
>
> Ron,
>
>
> > > If you do no nor ever have had a position at
> > Omega/Tradestation then
> > > yes there are plenty of systems that make money trading the eminis.
> >
> > I believe you, and I don't want to sound like I don't.
> > However, my hypothesis is that there's no proof. If I
> > understand you correctly, you're agreeing that there's no
> > proof, but you are saying you can personally testify that
> > such systems exist. I just want to establish the fact that
> > there is no proof anyone is making money on eminis with a
> > 100% mechanical system. Does this make any sense? I know it's
> > weird, but maybe there's someone out there who understands
> > the point I'm trying to make.
>
> If you have PROVEd your hypothesis that there is no proof that any makes
> money on the em-min consistently then why do you trade it? Are you just
> a bored gambler who has time and money to flush down the toilet?
>
> And yes..you make perfect sense to me..and it explains why your not
> making money.
>
> >
> > > I would never buy a system from a vendor. I could never trade a
> > > system that didn't suit my trading beliefs. I figure nearly all of
> > > them are trash or will be soon anyway. Just my opinion.
> >
> > I share your opinion in general, but I think we have to
> > acknowledge systems like R-Mesa, and that the problem might
> > be the eminis....not necessarily the movement of the stock
> > indexes. I'm just speculating and seeking to expand my
> > understanding on the subject. Your revelations are helpful
> > and I thank you for taking the time to respond to each of my
> > points as you have.
>
> If it's the e-mini..then why do you keep looking to beat a market you
> claim in unbeatable? Do you kow what they call people who keep doing the
> same thing hoping it will result in a differetn future outcome??
> >
> > > Ask yourself
> > > why would anyone sell a system. If they can't trade it
> > themselves why
> > > don't they hire a monkey to do it for them. They will make more in
> > > the market than they ever will selling systems.
> >
> > 100% agreement. Systems trading is highly-speculative, and I
> > just don't see any proof that anyone is doing it for real on
> > the lower-risk emini futures. I've seen no evidence or proof
> > in 8 years, and I just want to see if anyone else has reached
> > some of the same conclusions I have about the futility of
> > trying to trade a single static system short-term on the eminis.
>
> Ron, if you agree 100% why have you spent so much money on trading
> systems? Why have you gone to so much trouble to set up a website to
> monitor and trade them yourself?
> Are you a masochist perhaps?
>
> >
> > > So my BS is all opinion because I don't trade my own
> > systems. I'll be
> > > glad to send you a report on the one I'm working on but I
> > don't trade
> > > it so what value will it have?
> >
> > Agreed. I trade a system, but that doesn't mean I expect it
> > to make money. I HOPE it makes money, and I think there's a
> > chance it will. However, I'm going in with a preset stop-loss
> > based on the max drawdown. I've accepted the loss, and I plan
> > to stick it out all the way to max drawdown if necessary. I
> > have decided that this type of expectation is the most
> > appropriate for ME. I understand that everyone has different
> > reasons/limits with what systems they trade.
>
> So you are a gambler....I strongly suggest you go and see Gamblers
> Anonymous...they Might b able to help you fro your addiction. Someone
> who places wagers on an uncertain outcome expcting to lose IS A
> GAMBLER.and has a serious problem.
>
>
> > > Better yet change your
> > > approach to the market and build your own system. One really smart
> > > guy posted to this list quite some time ago that you need to see
> > > something in the market that works then code it. Now that isn't
> > > exactly how he said it but it is close enough. Think about
> > that. They
> > > guy knows what he is talking about. Take any pattern that happens
> > > then code it up. If it doesn't work then figure out what the
> > > difference is between when it works and when it doesn't. Then code
> > > that in. The guy that builds a good system is the guy that can see
> > > what the market does and he can also figure out how to code
> > it. I'm
> > > al lousy coder but I can see the market pretty fair.
> >
> > I have thought about and tried this many times in my 8 years
> > as an Easylanguage programmer, and I think I understand the
> > process you're describing. However, what you just described
> > can also sound like curve-fitting. I believe that it's
> > possible to make money consistently with adaptive and/or
> > evolving systems, but I don't consider these "100%
> > mechanical." I'm not talking about adaptive systems with my 3
> > hypotheses, I'm thinking more along the lines of "static" and
> > commercially-available (for sale) systems on vendor web sites.
>
> SUGGESTION: STOP trading your syems...and go and spend a year learning
> to read a chart... Learn to read and understand the market...until you
> do that , no system you test, analyse or trade will work for you... End
> of story.
>
> If you believe a model that uses some form of adaptive logic can't be
> mechanical after 8 years of research, then you need to step back and
> have a very serious look at your work and life Ron...
>
> > >
> > > Then the really big trick is if you have the system can you
> > actually
> > > follow it? Can you do what it tells you? That alone
> > probably takes
> > > more than half the traders that buy or build a system out
> > of the game.
> >
> > I totally agree and can speak from experience of having
> > traded 6 emini system for 6 months. Slippage and
> > trader-errors is a serious problem, and Tradestation 7-like
> > automation is a powerful solution.
>
> If you believe slippage and errors are a serious problem in the e-mini
> then once again I STRONGLY suggest you completely reassess you life Ron.
> The E-mini is the most liquid market in the worl. Or close to it, and if
> after 8 years you havent learnt to place a simple Buy/Sell on stop order
> with the approriate stop..thenyou have serious problems and need to
> completely reassess your life.
>
> I'm not kidding...you can choose to stop now...or waste your whole life
> never finding what your looking for. Your mind set is wrong...your
> solutions are wrong..and your quest has taken the wrong rode....trust
> me...there isn't much I haven't seen in 20+ years... If you want
> perspective you need to step right away for a while.
>
> Regards,
> Adrian
>
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