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Anyone have any experience with Zap Futures?
--- Simon Campbell <simtrader@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Just to provide a full perspective on Interactive
> Brokers:
>
> IMHO the way they handle stop orders is inferior to
> other systems like PFG
> Best Direct. IB places your stop order as "waiting"
> which means that it
> only actually gets transmitted when the price is
> touched. This process
> adds X seconds delay to execution and results in
> greater uncertainty on the
> fill. Your stop order is not timestamped or queued
> in order of priority
> when it was sent ...because it isn't even "sent"
> until the price is
> hit. By contrast, PFG places your stop order
> physically on Globex in
> advance. It's been timestamped and prioritised
> accordingly. Your fill is
> instantaneous when the price is hit.
>
> In the Emini NQ this difference is most marked. If
> the market "runs"
> through your stop price, with PFG you will get a
> fill at (or with very
> little slippage at ) your price. While IB is still
> "sending" your order,
> your fill could easily be several ticks away by the
> time it comes back. It
> does you no good to save a few $$'s on commissions
> if you are paying
> $20-$40 slippage on a stop order. Of course, there
> are times when the
> delay in sending your stop order could result in a
> better price. But in my
> opinion, this level of added uncertainty is NOT
> GOOD. In looking at the
> statistics below I would ask the question: how many
> times were Dave's stop
> orders hit with an extra $10-$50 slippage that
> wouldn't have occurred if
> he'd used a different system? When analysing cost,
> there is more to
> consider than just the commission rate.
>
> I'm not saying that PFG is perfect ...but one must
> be aware of what the
> differences are between different systems before
> making an informed decision.
>
> Simon.
>
>
> At 20:58 12/04/2001 -0600, you wrote:
> >Michael,
> >
> >Very well said. I just wanted to add my numbers
> for empirical evidence.
> >I've been with IB since they went retail. Last
> year I made 1,113 trades
> >with them (30% of which were ES and NQ trades), and
> I had one glitch, which
> >was fixed with a phone call, very quickly.
> >
> >Just doing some quick math, compared with a $15 RT,
> I saved $10 per contract
> >per transaction, or about $11K per contract last
> year. You might think of
> >that as the price for a small telephone staff.
> Let's say I have 3 "botched"
> >orders or internect disconnects over the year while
> I'm in a trade. The
> >commission savings covers about $4K per event or 80
> points of "panic room"
> >while I wait on hold for a broker. Insert your own
> numbers as appropriate.
> >My point is that the total costs considering the
> "protection" offered by a
> >large telephone staff ought to be considered.
> >
> >Check out some of the brokers that are using
> J-Trader as well. I'm sure you
> >can negotiate some very favorable rates per RT, as
> this market for NQ and ES
> >trading volume is getting very competitive. Some
> may have better phone
> >staffs as well.
> >
> >Dave Nadeau
> >Fort Collins, CO
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Michael Watkins
> [mailto:watkins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 6:20 PM
> > > To: LD; Omega List
> > > Subject: Re: Online futures trading - any
> suggestions?
> > >
> > >
> > > At 03:48 PM 4/12/2001 -0500, you wrote:
> > > >Does anyone have consistently good experience
> with an on-line broker for
> > > >execution of the e-mini's (SP and ND) that is
> reasonably priced? My
> > > >definition of reasonable pricing would be at or
> less than $15 (all fees
> > > >included).
> > >
> > > LD - my recommendation:
> > >
> > > Interactivebrokers -
> http://www.interactivebrokers.com
> > >
> > > I have used IB for about 18 months and find it
> an excellent resource. I
> > > trade multiple ES and NQ contracts, and make
> extensive use of Stop Limit
> > > orders for position entry. I can not recall more
> than once when my order
> > > was not filled, and frequently one or more of
> my contracts will
> > > be filled
> > > at better than my limit price.
> > >
> > > They charge 2.95 per side per contract.
> > >
> > > For trading emini NQ/ES, for the price and
> execution speed, I do
> > > not think
> > > they can be beat.
> > >
> > > >It is very important to me that I be able to
> contact the desk if
> > > the system
> > > >(or my system) goes down to unwind a position.
> Many of the introducing
> > > >brokers have very poorly staffed desks.
> > >
> > > IB will meet your expectations then, as they
> have a small help desk
> > > facility. If you expect to have plenty of hand
> holding, do not select IB.
> > > They expect their clients to be self sufficient.
> > >
> > > My recommendation - IMMEDIATELY after an entry
> order is filled,
> > > place what
> > > we call a CRASH STOP. Then you are at least
> protected should Internet
> > > connectivity be interrupted or you have a heart
> attack.
> > >
> > > How useful this technique is to you may depend
> on your trading approach,
> > > but I'm going to make a wild assumption that you
> use stops
> > > extensively for
> > > protection. Since I can't imagine entering a
> single trade without knowing
> > > ahead of time when I am going to get out, using
> stops for price
> > > protection
> > > and computer/internet reliability protection
> seems natural to me.
> > >
> > > If a setup appears and time is short, I might
> set my crash stop an
> > > arbitrary number of points away (usually only a
> couple for the setups I
> > > trade) and one it has been transmitted then I
> might adjust its price and
> > > retransmit. At least I'm protected.
> > >
> > > In all this time I've only once had to contact
> IB help desk to exit a
> > > trade. I had my crash stop in place, so there
> was no panic, but the trade
> > > moved very large in my favour and I wanted to
> take profits.
> > > Again, they are
> > > set up with virtually total automation up to and
> including
> > > account set up,
> > > so they do not have a huge fleet of people
> sitting there waiting to take
> > > your call. They will charge you something like
> 30$ to place a
> > > trade on your
> > > behalf.
> > >
> > > For the self sufficient trader with reliable
> connectivity and a
> > > sound stop
> > > loss strategy, I think IB is a good choice.
> > >
> > > No affiliation, etc, just a happy client.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Michael
> > >
>
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"Trading is a way of walking, not a way of talking."
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