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As a broker for over a decade in both stocks and futures I have seen every
dog & pony show, trading courses, newsletters, systems for sale and they
have all ended up being snake oil for my clients. However in defense of
Drummond Geometry, my only clients on the books that consistently make
money month after month are his former students.
Let me say for the record I have never spoke with Ted Hearne or Charlie
Drummond - in fact Ted's email is the first time I ever really read about
Drummond Geometry. I make no money from this comment and have no hidden
agenda - the bottomline is that for the people that I have had as clients
for a long time have studied this stuff for years and make a living trading
professionally his methodology.
What I have learned is that -1) there is no magical system to plug into
your computer 2) it will probably take a good year of studying, tracking,
monitoring, understanding, etc. 3) it may easier for some that haven't been
trading for a while to find a mentor who trades real money using this
methodology so that they can learn more effectively.
As a trader in addition to being an on-line broker, I am intrigued with the
results that I see from my clients. If I had the time to sit down for a
year and truly dedicate myself to learning to trade his methodology, I
wouldn't be concerned about the cost of his program. I've seen the success
- I know that they use most of his stuff in my clients trading - maybe some
of their own - but I am happy to have them as clients because it makes my
life easier as a broker to have clients make money rather than trying to
replace clients lost because they lost their money.
I think there is a money management/cash management part to the course - I
know my clients speak of "volatility stops" , etc. and calculate the number
of contracts they will put on based on the trade set up and there account
size. Their account sizes range from $20,000 - $160,000 if that gives you
an idea of what you probably need in your futures account to trade it
effectively. They also have tradestation and use some indicators that they
got or programmed with their help.
Anyway, that's my two cents for whatever it's worth
Michael Herron
President
ViperTrading, LLC.
866-GO VIPER
www.vipertrading.com
vipertrade@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
At 12:31 PM 2/8/01 -0700, you wrote:
>Would welcome criticisms, disagreements, rebuttals, especially from Drummond
>traders, of the following impressions upon visiting the Drummond Geometry
>website (www.Tedtick.com):
>
>Author Ted Hearne claims that Drummond is a reclusive, brilliant, Canadian
>trader, "partially retired" in Nova Scotia, whom author Hearne claims took
>"nine figures out of the markets".
>
>1) Looks like another "discretionary system", with all the problems that
>implies: It will boil down to your ability to subjectively apply rules
>stated in "lessons", that in total, cost $3475. Will you be able to get
>through 30 lessons, (each block of five will cost $695) and have something
>concrete you can trade with at the end of the tunnel?
>
>2) Looks like author Ted Hearne is the "popularizer" of Drummond's methods,
>in these lessons; you will end up getting Drummond second hand via Hearne.
>
>3) A sample of the writing style, in the first lesson, indicates long
>winded explanations that are hard to operationalize. I kept asking myself:
>"When is the author going to get the point and tell me how to trade with
>this?" Lot's of talk about "energy flow", etc. ("Deep Learning" Hypnosis
>Tapes are available for an additional $45). Been there; heard that. In fact,
>in a review cited by John Hill of Future's Truth, Hill states: "It [the 30
>lesson course] is not inexpensive and unless one is willing to devote many
>hours to studying the material, you may not get value." Even if you do
>study intensely, and "get value", will you be able to trade successfully
>with it?
>
>4) Drummond Geometry indicators for Trade Station are available at still
>additional cost ($605), so we are up to about $4080 with no Easy Language
>system code.
>
>5) No evidence by author Hearne that Drummond's methods can be concisely
>written and tested via Easy Language on various markets and time frames. A
>bare bones "track record" is reported, but it is clear it was obtained via
>subjective rule application (by John Hill? by author Hearne?). I think you
>would end up pulling your hair out trying to write testable code in all the
>"multiple time-frame" charts that the Drummond method employs.
>
>6) Even if Drummond's entry rules result in decent entries, the method in
>total will end up being only as good as the stops and money management that
>go with it. One would need EL system code to optimize stops on today's
>markets and timeframes of your choice, and that is not available.
>
>7) There is a bright spot, and potential value for the dollar: Drummond
>himself published several books, each of which will cost $170. For example:
>"How to make money in the futures market - and lot's of it", 1978, Drummond
>Publications, looks intriguing. (Unfortunately, the publisher is not a
>standard one such as John Wiley, McGraw-Hill, etc., so you probably cannot
>order it from Amazon.com at a lower cost.) However, this book could be a
>good source of ideas for indicator and system testing in Easy Language.
>
>Peter Hoon
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