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I think one should distinguish between a critic and a basher. One is a
positive contributor who seeks the truth and the other is a propagandist
(liar) that smears their target, i.e. Cal Thomas is a critic of Bill
Clinton, James Carville is a basher of Ken Starr. One questions the
assertion and truth of the persons claims and actions, the other merely
uses lies and distortions to create a negative image of the critic
because they don't want the truth known. Mark Brown is a critic of
Omega's, those who rile against Mark for the most part would fall into
the Basher's category, i.e. they attack the critic and say he has no
right to ask the question.
Brian Massey wrote:
>
> Doug Demming wrote:
> ">> The Omega-List ran for years without the "help" of bashers. It contained
> a
> >> lot of helpful information and only on occasion did we have a problem
> with
> >> spammers."
>
> A few years ago was a completely different place and so this isn't a valid
> argument. Bashers play a vital role in keeping this list as clean as
> possible.
>
> Even as early as 2 years ago Omega was a fledging company with less then 1/2
> the installed the base. The internet wasn't nearly as popular or accesable
> as it is today. Hardware technology wasn't nearly what it is today which
> made lists like this and internet less accesible. Marketers hardly new what
> the word Internet meant 2 years ago. In the past 2-3 years, marketers have
> become much more Internet savy and developed ways to market their products
> to specific customer base over the Internet for practicaly pennies. They
> can do this from the comfort of their office or home. As the customer base
> of TS and SC has grown exponentially over the past 2-3 years, so has the
> popularity of Easy Language. IN the past 2 years more systems have been
> written in Easy Language than any other trading language. Over the past 2
> years Omega has courted system and utility developers with their solution
> provider program. Consequently the numbers of 3rd party Omega Vendors has
> exploded. You didn't have this 2-3 years back. With this explosive growth
> of Omega and 3rd party developers comes a huge increase in abuse of lists
> like this one. This is the ONLY list that specifically targets a huge base
> of usually rich (at least well off -- they dropped 2K on TS didn't they?)
> sophisticated users that buy products for TS and SC.
>
> IT has been well documented on this list that the scrupels MANY system
> vendors are pathetic, selling crap for $3,000a system copy. Do you think
> they care about some stupid rules on a list when they could potentially sell
> their systems to a few people on this list for a huge profit? GREED makes
> most vendors take a devil-be-damned attitude toward rules of this list and
> they'll just keep posting and posting and posting unless something is done
> because a lot of money is at stake.
>
> Bashers play the important role of acting as the balance to this force and
> encourage accountability.
>
> The Bill Elkyn incident is a perfect example. He has posted for months
> about his prfitable approach to bond trading yet when invited to post real
> time results to prove the effectiveness of his methods, he has yet to
> accept. How reliable can his method be if he is unwilling to demonstrate to
> others the effectivenes of his approach?
>
> Bashers are responible for bringing this to the attention of the list.
>
> Would you buy a car if the salesman wouldn't at least demonstrate that it
> ran? Then why would you buy a system from a vendor that wasn't willing to
> demonstrate it's effectiveness?
>
> So you can't compare the way the list was 4,3 or even 2 years ago because
> the world has changed.
>
> Without the bashers on this list we would all be swimming in a sea
> advertisements for utilites, systems and get rich quick schemes most of
> which would be downright criminal.
>
> Newbies would be the worst hit and depsite all the polite, gentle pleas from
> the gentlemen on this list it would just keep on happening because vendors
> don't give a rats arse.
>
> Brian.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ron Augustine [mailto:RonAug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 1998 5:15 PM
> To: omega-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Spammers Taking Over Omega List
>
> The Usenet comparison is specious argument. Usenet is a worldwide network
> of mostly anonymous people with alias e-mail addresses-- posting a wide
> variety of un-focused garbage and personal opinions. The Omega-List is (or
> formerly was) a focused group where the members have a common interest in
> trading and specialized software.
>
> When one or two brief Posts from someone who may or may not intend to
> contribute something of value results in 30 or 40 posts containing personal
> attacks and slanderous comments -- something is wrong. I suggest that the
> attackers are the cyber-counterpart of a party crasher who doesn't know how
> to socialize and fit-in and enjoy a good time-- but instead is intent only
> on insuring that the possibility of anyone else receiving any benefit is
> also destroyed.
>
> It would be simple enough to make a comment or two if you think a particular
> message is not appropriate. The repetitive and redundant personal attacks
> serve only to destroy the List and chase away potential contributors and
> others who have better things to do than wear out a delete button.
> ___________________________________________
>
> At 11:13 AM 11/10/98 -0700, you wrote:
> >Doug Deming wrote:
>
> >> The Omega-List ran for years without the "help" of bashers. It contained
> a
> >> lot of helpful information and only on occasion did we have a problem
> with
> >> spammers.
> >
> >I'm sure it did. In fact USENET operated in the same fashion for years -
> >until 1994 when Internet was 'opened' to the general public. Two
> >immigration lawyers started a massive advertising campaign by posting
> >commercial messages on a variety of newsgroups. One of them went on to
> >write a book on how spam the newsgroups. Since then, USENET has changed
> >dramitically and continues to have problems with spammers. The Omega
> >list most likely has fallen victim to this same new 'revolution'.
> >
> >
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