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About 2 months on average.
KS
Just trade two mini contracts it is equal to 1 Big Dow contract and
just exit all the positions at the end of day and re-enter when the
Big Board opens again. Since the E-mini is electronic it is one of
the cheapest round turn costs. You should talk to your IB about the
costs. If you trade the dow correctly even the spikes at night don't
matter on the mini dow because the gain is already in so the spikes
don't get near your stop.
KS.
--- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "metastkuser"
<andysmith_999@xxxx> wrote:
> KS,
>
> Yes I'm noticing that mini Dow (YM) is more trendy than e-mini S&P
> (ES). The nighttime spikes on mini Dow are a problem for position
> traders so I'm looking at the Big Dow but I'm not sure how suitable
> the Big Dow is for retail traders -- for example, it is pit-traded
and
> I can't use IB for it...
>
> How many days-in-trade, on average, was one of your 600 point runs?
>
> Do you trade the Big S&P ($250 points)?
>
> Thanks,
> Andy
>
> --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "formulaprimer"
> <formulaprimer@xxxx> wrote:
> > Dow has veen very trendy the past two years. I've alraady traded
> > about 6 major trades this year. the prvious year around 8 all
year
> > long. The average trade was about 600 points long and short.
That is
> > about $3,000.00 per contract on the dow mini and $6,000.00 per
> > contract on the Big Dow. Just multiply the profit with the
amount of
> > contracts and you can see it has been a very good year and a
half.
> > KS.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "v" <entinv@xxxx> wrote:
> > > KS,
> > >
> > > As you mentioned good trend trades happen only several times a
> > year. How
> > > many trades a year
> > > do you make on average?
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Vladimir
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > [mailto:equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of
formulaprimer
> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 6:26 AM
> > > To: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: Re: [EquisMetaStock Group] Using Metastock to trade
> > FUTURES?
> > >
> > >
> > > One more thing. I trade between 1-100 contracts sizes of the
dow
> > > mini's. The maximum position one could hold on the minis
before
> > > having to declare is 2500 contracts or it could be doubled
to
> > 5000
> > > contracts I haven't checked recently. So it is pretty broad.
I
> > still
> > > use the same money management plan.
> > > KS.
> > > example: with 1 lot I test the trend and will handle a
$250.00
> > loss.
> > > With a major trend I will enter 100 lot and will suffer a
> > $25,000.00
> > > draw down with a profit to reward ratio of 3:1. I will never
> > enter a
> > > large position trade without a 3:1 risk to reward ratio.
> > Basically
> > > if i risk $25,000.00 I must return $75,000.00 in profit.
Keep in
> > > mind major trend trades happen a several times a year.
> > > KS.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "formulaprimer"
> > > <formulaprimer@xxxx> wrote:
> > > > The funds move the market and the commercials hedge the
market.
> > > The
> > > > big money is made by the funds and they trade the Big
Board.
> > The
> > > > mini has too many artificial spikes from overnight trading
or
> > > small
> > > > lot traders getting overdone in a situation. Basically the
Big
> > > Board
> > > > is a more technically sound chart. This is always the case.
> > > > KS.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "metastkuser"
> > > > <andysmith_999@xxxx> wrote:
> > > > > KS, one more: Why not chart the minis? Why trade by the
Big
> > > > Contracts
> > > > > and enter in the mini contracts?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "formulaprimer"
> > > > > <formulaprimer@xxxx> wrote:
> > > > > > I think the dow mini is $5 a point and and the full
dow
> > future
> > > > > > contract is 10$ a point. That is what i go on. 1% of
of my
> > > > initial
> > > > > > margin of $2500 is $25 dollars which is 5 points. This
is
> > of
> > > > course
> > > > > > when I do random entry technique. Other wise from my
> > > experience
> > > > if
> > > > > > the dow moves more than 50 points against me I usually
get
> > > out.
> > > > That
> > > > > > is just my experience but it could be different for
others.
> > > > > > KS.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "metastkuser"
> > > > > > <andysmith_999@xxxx> wrote:
> > > > > > > <formulaprimer@xxxx> wrote:
> > > > > > > > I trade daily, intraday, or position depending on
how
> > the
> > > > charts
> > > > > > > > look. The reason I say "no sleep" is that I don't
put
> > > stops
> > > > in
> > > > > > > > because all electronic orders can be viewed by
other
> > > traders
> > > > > > because
> > > > > > > > the real time quotes puts them up for everybody to
see.
> > > This
> > > > > > means
> > > > > > > > that stops will get picked off. You will
experience
> > this
> > > for
> > > > > > > > yourself, when it goes down to hit your stop and
then
> > > > proceeds
> > > > > > to go
> > > > > > > > back up again. Since it is electronic it means
> > > > instantaneous
> > > > > > fills
> > > > > > > > or close to it. When the price hits my loss
target I
> > put
> > > > the
> > > > > > order
> > > > > > > > in at the market, This is the stop process the
Turtles
> > > made
> > > > > > famous
> > > > > > > > and is probably the only thing that is useful from
what
> > > they
> > > > > > > > originally did.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > KS, doesn't hiding your stops only matter if you are
> > trading
> > > > very
> > > > > > > large positions? Also if you are using wider stops
in the
> > > case
> > > > of
> > > > > > > position trading (say 2 ATRs) then is getting your
stops
> > > > picked off
> > > > > > > still a problem, given the wider stops?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Of course I'm referring to electronic markets of dow
> > > > > > > > mini and others. I do not trade the pit contracts
> > unless
> > > I'm
> > > > > > > > position trading even then I prefer the
electronic.
> > The
> > > > > > leverage or
> > > > > > > > granularity you talk about is only relevant if you
talk
> > > > about
> > > > > > risk.
> > > > > > > > The higher the point value the greater the risk to
> > reward
> > > > ratio.
> > > > > > If
> > > > > > > > you are beginning i would recommend the dow mini
> > contract.
> > > > $5
> > > > > > > > dollars a point and $2500.00 a contract.
Volatility
> > meters
> > > > and
> > > > > > price
> > > > > > > > range can help with money management portion of the
> > > trading.
> > > > The
> > > > > > Dow
> > > > > > > > market are the easiest to trade because they trade
in a
> > > > range
> > > > > > bound
> > > > > > > > pattern. Take a look at a historical chart of the
dow
> > > > futures
> > > > > > > > contract. Do not chart the mini. Trade by the Big
> > > Contracts
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > enter in the mini contracts.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is a big disconnect for me. Why trade by the Big
> > > > Contracts and
> > > > > > > enter in the mini contracts? Why not chart the minis?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > (example of my last trade would be: I shorted the
mini
> > sep
> > > > dow
> > > > > > at
> > > > > > > > 10700 with a target stop loss of 50 points or
$250.00
> > and
> > > it
> > > > > > went to
> > > > > > > > 10734 and collapsed to 10580 which then I exited
at the
> > > > market
> > > > > > > > because it hit trend line support. I checked the
stop
> > > orders
> > > > > > place
> > > > > > > > at the time the market went to 10734 and the last
stop
> > > order
> > > > was
> > > > > > at
> > > > > > > > that price 10734, then the market collapsed. So the
> > > > reasoning is
> > > > > > > > that if I could see it the big leverage players
will
> > move
> > > > the
> > > > > > market
> > > > > > > > to pick off the buy stop and let the market go
down to
> > its
> > > > > > proper
> > > > > > > > trend.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I see your point. Again, if 10734 was for a small
number
> > of
> > > > > > contracts,
> > > > > > > the big players may not have walked the index up
there to
> > > take
> > > > out
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > few contracts... but who knows. Your example uses a
50
> > point
> > > > stop.
> > > > > > 1
> > > > > > > ATR is around 95 points, so if this was a position
trade,
> > > > isn't the
> > > > > > > stop a bit tight?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >My stop method is from years of experience in this
> > market
> > > > > > > > and requires the ability to immediately exit a
trade
> > when
> > > > the
> > > > > > target
> > > > > > > > stop loss is hit. It does not matter if it goes
back
> > down.
> > > > You
> > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > out. Any change in this money management technique
will
> > > > cause
> > > > > > losses.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes, I understand, discipline.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > One quick note : I tested with real money with a
coin
> > > flip.
> > > > I
> > > > > > > > entered long if it is heads and short if it is
tails. I
> > > put
> > > > the
> > > > > > stop
> > > > > > > > loss at 1% or $25.00 or 5 ticks.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't follow. 5 ticks is 0.05% of the Dow
(5/10000).
> > How
> > > do
> > > > you
> > > > > > get 1%?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > With this money management
> > > > > > > > technique I was profitable. Basically random
entry
> > into
> > > the
> > > > > > market
> > > > > > > > with a proper money management system made it
> > profitable.
> > > > > > Trading
> > > > > > > > is 90% money management 10% technical. I use to
think
> > it
> > > was
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > other way around but it took awhile to figure this
out.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I completely agree. THanks so much for your
comments, KS.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > KS.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In
equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "metastkuser"
> > > > > > > > <andysmith_999@xxxx> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > KS,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If you don't mind a few questions:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 1) Do you daytrade ES and YM or trade multi-day?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 2) Do you see any benefit from the added
granularity
> > of
> > > YM
> > > > > > over ES
> > > > > > > > > (i.e. YM tick is $1, ES tick is $0.25, but YM is
10x
> > ES
> > > > which
> > > > > > means
> > > > > > > > > ES=$0.25 and YM=$0.10 in apples-to-apples). Does
YM's
> > > finer
> > > > > > > > > granularity allow your stops to be shaken out
less?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 3) Leveraging cuts both ways, but e-mini traders
only
> > > > speak of
> > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > goodness (as you are confirming). Why is that?
Have
> > you
> > > > never
> > > > > > been
> > > > > > > > > hurt by the high leverage?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 4) "Sleep is not an option because of night
trading".
> > > I'm
> > > > > > assuming
> > > > > > > > > vigilant stop placement for ES/YM end-of-day
traders
> > > > allows
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > sleep?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thank you for your help, KS.
> > > > > > > > > Andy.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In
> > equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "formulaprimer"
> > > > > > > > > <formulaprimer@xxxx> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > I can't speak for anybody else but I have been
> > trading
> > > > the
> > > > > > Dow
> > > > > > > > > > Futures and Dow Mini and S&P mini since it
began.
> > Once
> > > > you
> > > > > > trade
> > > > > > > > > > them you will never go back to stocks. It is
> > because
> > > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > leveraging. All the indexes move in direct
> > relation
> > > to
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > Stock
> > > > > > > > > > Market indexes so any long term direction must
be
> > done
> > > > with
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > Big
> > > > > > > > > > Board not the mini's. Be warned the Night
Trading
> > > moves
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > market
> > > > > > > > > > tremendously sometimes and sometimes sleep is
not
> > an
> > > > option.
> > > > > > > > > > Otherwise if your technical analysis is at a
high
> > > level
> > > > you
> > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > > > like it. August issue of Futures magazine I
think
> > has
> > > a
> > > > good
> > > > > > > > article
> > > > > > > > > > on options.
> > > > > > > > > > KS.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In
> > equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "metastkuser"
> > > > > > > > > > <andysmith_999@xxxx> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Vladimir,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for taking the time to answer my
> > > questions.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > In your experience, how would you compare
trading
> > > the
> > > > > > index
> > > > > > > > versus
> > > > > > > > > > > trading the futures? For example, trading ES
vs.
> > > SPX,
> > > > or
> > > > > > NQ vs.
> > > > > > > > > > > QQQQ,... I know the leverage is very
different,
> > but
> > > > > > besides
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > > > > has your experience been?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I have heard that once a trader moves from
> > > > stocks/indexes
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > futures,
> > > > > > > > > > > they never return to stocks...
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --- In equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "v"
> > > > <entinv@xxxx>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > From my experience future always track the
> > index.
> > > > For
> > > > > > > > example
> > > > > > > > > > > either you
> > > > > > > > > > > > trade QQQQ or NQ
> > > > > > > > > > > > the only real difference is the leverage.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Comparing futures to equities if you mean
> > > individual
> > > > > > stocks,
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > future
> > > > > > > > > > > > never goes bankrupt therefore it's
> > > > > > > > > > > > safer to buy. Futures, both commodities
and
> > > indexes
> > > > > > appear
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > better comply
> > > > > > > > > > > > with the technical analysis
> > > > > > > > > > > > studies in comparison with individual
stocks.
> > > Many
> > > > > > > > individual
> > > > > > > > > > > stocks are
> > > > > > > > > > > > not liquid enough to trade and
> > > > > > > > > > > > those most liquid would track corresponding
> > > > > > industry/group
> > > > > > > > > > indexes.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Never heard about Track N TRade before.
Looks
> > > > > > interesting
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > > > > From: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
> > Behalf
> > > Of
> > > > > > > > metastkuser
> > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 11:56 PM
> > > > > > > > > > > > To: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [EquisMetaStock Group] Using
> > > > Metastock to
> > > > > > > > trade
> > > > > > > > > > FUTURES?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Vladimir,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > "It doesn't provide continuous
contracts, but
> > > for
> > > > ES
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > YM
> > > > > > > > > > you can
> > > > > > > > > > > > use SPY/SPX and DIA/DJI if you need
longer
> > term
> > > > > > picture."
> > > > > > > > > > > > -- yes, it occured to me that I can
use SPX
> > > > instead
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > ES,
> > > > > > > > > > and DIA
> > > > > > > > > > > > instead of YM. But, does the future
always
> > track
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > index?
> > > > > > > > > > Wouldn't
> > > > > > > > > > > > the future move much faster than the
index if
> > > the
> > > > > > index
> > > > > > > > made a
> > > > > > > > > > sudden
> > > > > > > > > > > > large move?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > How do you like trading futures compared
to
> > > > equities?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > By the way, have you heard of Track N
Trade
> > for
> > > > > > > > backtesting
> > > > > > > > > > futures?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In
equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "v"
> > > > > > <entinv@xxxx>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > For EOD futures I'm using HSQuote from
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.downloadjunction.com/product/software/4358/
> > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't provide continuous
contracts,
> > but
> > > for
> > > > ES
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > YM
> > > > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > > can use
> > > > > > > > > > > > > SPY/SPX and DIA/DJI if you
> > > > > > > > > > > > > need longer term picture.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Intraday I'm using MetaServer RT for
> > > > > > Interactivebrokers.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't trade options on futures.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Vladimir
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > > > > > From: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
> > > Behalf
> > > > Of
> > > > > > > > > > metastkuser
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 8:18
PM
> > > > > > > > > > > > > To: equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [EquisMetaStock Group]
Using
> > > > > > Metastock to
> > > > > > > > > > trade
> > > > > > > > > > > FUTURES?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Vladimir,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > If you don't mind answering a couple
of
> > > > questions:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) I'm only interested in S&P 500 e-
mini
> > > (ES)
> > > > and
> > > > > > mini-
> > > > > > > > Dow
> > > > > > > > > > > (YM). I use
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Reuters for stock/indices end-of-day
> > data. I
> > > > don't
> > > > > > > > want to
> > > > > > > > > > pay
> > > > > > > > > > > for the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > omplete futures eod package. Do you
know
> > > where
> > > > I
> > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > > > eod
> > > > > > > > > > > data for
> > > > > > > > > > > > > just ES and YM?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Options on futures. I currently
trade
> > > > options
> > > > > > credit
> > > > > > > > > > > spreads on SPX
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and would like to try credit spreads
on
> > ES
> > > and
> > > > YM.
> > > > > > Do
> > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > trade
> > > > > > > > > > > > > options on futures? Can Metastock
support
> > > this?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In
> > equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "v"
> > > > > > > > <entinv@xxxx>
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vladimir
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > From:
equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
[mailto:equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > On
> > > > Behalf
> > > > > > Of
> > > > > > > > > > metastkuser
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005
5:53
> > PM
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > To:
equismetastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [EquisMetaStock Group]
Using
> > > > > > Metastock to
> > > > > > > > > > trade
> > > > > > > > > > > FUTURES?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone using MS to trade futures?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS Business finance
> > course
> > > > > > Business
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > business
> > > > > > > > > > > > finance
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Small business finance
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Business finance consultant
> > > > Business
> > > > > > > > finance
> > > > > > > > > > magazine
> > > > > > > > > > > > Business
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > finance schools
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------
----
> > ----
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > a.. Visit your
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> > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > a.. Visit your
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> > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------
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> > > > > > > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > a.. Visit your group "equismetastock"
on
> > the
> > > > web.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group,
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> > an
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > SPONSORED LINKS Business finance course Business to
business
> > finance
> > > Small business finance
> > > Business finance consultant Business finance
magazine
> > Business
> > > finance schools
> > >
> > >
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