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Brad,
You're getting defensive already. Slow down a bit. I've been involved
in the development of around 300 products and it's hard to have
someone tell you your baby might not be a genius. You can argue it
into one. Time will tell.
What Andrew is talking about, I think, was mainly directed at
"software leasing".
Most people just don't like software leases, and yours is not cheap.
I've been a full time trader for a long time. I use a lot of tools
that are somewhat pricey. However, I stay completely away from leases.
If each product were selling for $300 upfront, I would probably buy
them because I buy a lot of new tools to test. So far I haven't found
many that were worth much, but you never know. For me, a small
percentage increase in return is a lot of dollars so I check almost
everything I can find.
I might even be willing to pay the $600 and a small annual upgrade and
maintenance fee. The operative word here is small. I'm not willing to
pay the full lease price every year. I don't want a trading partner.
I am an engineer with an MS in applied math. In the world of trading
that's pretty much worthless so waving that around won't get you much.
As far as Ehler's goes, I like his work and his books. Yes, Brad, some
of us actually understand what he's doing. We aren't all as dumb as
pumpkins.
I have programmed all of Ehlers indicators and tested them. I'm not
ready to put him up on a pedestal. In the systems tests I've done, I
haven't found any great advantages to his approach but some of his
filters do smooth well. I personally like the Inverse Fisher Transform
and the Laguerre Transforms. Your implementation of them is probably
more polished than mine.
As far as applying engineering mathematics to the market, I like
David Sepiashvili adaptations the best.
http://www.alticom.com/indicators/overview.html
I have a few of his indicators programmed but they are much harder to
code than Ehlers. However, I have found the ones that I have used to
work very, very well. You might want to take a look at them.
I also have found Hurst hard to implement in MS. With dlls it's very
doable. His sigma bands would be a nice addition to MS. MetaStock
lacks a true sigma band. I think a lot of traders, especially on these
boards, don't understand the value of sigma bands when it comes to
assessing trends. Something else to think about.
Unfortunately most MS developers don't make much money. I know a
number of them and the market is very small, the number of people
willing to pay a high enough price to sustain the cost of development
is few, and it's hard to complie a list of potential customers because
Equis is the 800 pound gorilla that likes to squeeze the life out of
independent developers.
Good luck with the product. I'll watch for any change in the pricing
plan, and if it gets back to something I can work with, I'll give it a go.
--- In Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "bradulrich33"
<bradulrich@xxxx> wrote:
> --- In Metastockusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Andrew Tomlinson"
> <andrew_tomlinson@xxxx> wrote:
> > Not quite a bargain at $600 per annum!!!
> >
> > Makes it clear what good value Roy and Jose's work is.
> >
> > Do Metastock users have a reputation for being rich and dumb, that
> someone
> > tries something like this?
> >
> > Andrew
> >
>
>
>
> And how is something Expensive automatically Worthless? If our
> product was cheap or free, would it be totally awesome???
>
> Did you bother to research our products at all, do you have anything
> intelligent to say about them beyond the obvious? It is easy to cut
> and paste the prices, see:
>
> A full list of our prices can be found here:
> www.thedml.com/pages/order
>
> You seem to have formed a staunch opinion quite quickly, and yet in
> so, so, little time. It it seems as though you were discouraging
> people from looking at the site and gathering their own information.
> How else do we learn? It is you who is trying to pull the sheet over
> their eyes, not me. I want them all to see. Form their own opinion.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Secondly, I think you mispoke: "trying something like this" doesn't
> require being rich or dumb. "Trying" the trial for two months is
> free; doesn't cost a thing. And you don't have to be dumb, although
> you can be...we don't discriminate :)
>
> With the trial, you are locked into absolutely nothing, you receive
> nothing that you didn't ask for, and it can fully uninstalled, no
> problems...right back to where you started. I have recently updated
> the trial download page to mention these important things...I realize
> many people trick you into things with trials...
>
> As for Roy and Jose, they ARE worth their weight in gold, and I
> respect what they do. I can only hope the my company and its users
> can have people as dedicated to education and service as those two.
> If fact, it is our primary policy to offer and encourage education to
> (and between) our users. I really like these guys, I do. So much,
> In fact, that I am modelling our company after each of theirs: I am
> offering quality products for sale, but I am counting on my support
> and services to earn a reputation.
>
> And I assure you, if Roy and Jose could do what our products do:
>
> 1.) They would have already done it
> 2.) I would not have spent years developing them, and
> 3.) I would not be selling them, they would be.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Ah, yes, and then there is the price::
>
> Professional tools are offered at premium prices. This is obvious in
> many areas of trading software/services.
>
> For example, you can download data for free, or you can get premium
> data for TWICE of what our indicators cost per month. Just for DATA.
>
> As for the benefits:
>
> You have to understand what it is our products do that you cannot do
> already in Metastock. With ASI, (the adaptive indicators), this
> point is somewhat subtle, and not everyone gets it. If you have been
> working inside the confined space that is the Metastock language,
> then you may not realize that there is another world of more powerful
> indicators out there waiting to be built. We ourselves at the DML do
> not even see the entire realm of possibilities. The indicators are
> not just end indicators, they are TOOLS that EXTEND THE METASTOCK
> FORMULA LANGUAGE.
>
> As with any new tools, it will take time, and a growing user base, to
> really find out what they are capable of. Some advanced users know
> this already, and have been waiting years for a product that does
> what ours does. They are very excited, and can't believe someone
> has
> finally done it. This is our main target audience.
>
> As for Ehlers' work, it speaks for itself. I can tell you as a
> mathematician and an engineer that the math makes sense and is
> theoretically sound. What makes so many people not use his stuff is
> the fact that it is hard to implement. They say it is hard to
> understand, which I'm sure is true, but that is not the real
> reason
> that it is not used. What keeps people from using it is if it is
> hard to use….until now. I can also tell you that there are
> advancements and improvements to be made, that HAVE BEEN MADE to
> Ehlers' stuff, beyond what is in his books. Our indicators let
> you
> logically make these advancements without being a mathematician or a
> professional programmer. I did the hard work when I laid these all
> out and did the C++ programming, now they are easy-to-use and
> extensible.
>
> No doubt, are products are mainly geared towards professional traders
> that can already see how to use our new tools to make better
> indicators. And thus the cost of our products is easily justified to
> them. For the others, it will surely take some time to see the
> possibilities. Our growing knowledge base is intended to help share
> this information that the cutting-edge users develop, and pass it on
> down to the less advanced. We encourage you to contact us to find
> out more about how our products can help you as a trader.
>
> We realize that the only reason that you would buy our products is if
> you thought they would help make you more money trading. We KNOW
> that they can, because we have seen the difference between them and
> the less effective ones: the 30 year old indicators that come with
> metastock, and worn out ones that have been written using its limited
> formula language and old indicators.
>
> Our products are very professional, and thus, we charge a
> professional price. We offer top-notch products, support that is
> second-to-none, and more than anything, we encourage a community of
> learning and improvement that will hopefully justify the cost of our
> products.
>
> The only disadvantage we see is our prices, which are pretty much set
> (although we will be offering promotional offers up to 20% off over
> the next few months).
>
> If you actual take the time to study our product and find any
> disadvantages OTHER THAN PRICE, we will be happy to hear them, and
> hopefully, will be able to resolve them.
>
> And hey, most new add-ons you hear about are not only expensive, but
> they don't do anything. So we can't blame anyone who has
> dismissed our products as expensive products that take advantage of
> suckers. We are not looking for suckers. Suckers won't get what our
> stuff does. We are confident that our products actually do something
> dramatic. As we say, We've Given Metastock a BIG Upgrade! So
> please take the time to think about the possibilities.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brad Ulrich
> Developer
> The Dynamic Market Lab, LLC
> www.thedml.com
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