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Spyros,
Sorry that my English isn't that good and that you misunderstood me.
I will try to explain my self again.
I have a simple peak and trough formula. It gives on the tester on
historical data, golden mountains. Once I use it in realtime true the
advisor it sometimes gives signals that a little bit later disappear. It
pulls the signals back like it never took this position. I trade futures
on the DAX and I can't afford to have these bad signals or false
signals.
I can also believe that once I ad your SR zig on my little formula that
I want have these false signals anymore. But when I will do my testing
on historical data that these golden mountains melt in to little sand
dunes or like I was saying in my previous mail that it want do better
than a normal good working system. I am a bit convinced of this idea
because I managed to build an other formula (bases on "bare since
HHV..and bare since LLV") who can also describe a top and bottom on a
way that when a signals occurs after a top and a bottom it will stay
there and not disappear anymore. With this formula it proves already
that there are no golden mountains to see.
So I' am looking forward to have your SR zig formula so I can try it out
on my simple little peak and trough formula and see if there are golden
mountains to earn if it stays with little sand dunes...i will keep you
informed if the results are satisfying and in that case also give you
this little formula.
Greetings igor
-----Original Message-----
From: raftsp [mailto:raftsp@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: vrijdag 7 juni 2002 16:46
To: Igor
Subject: RE: peak trough ...zigzag validity(trading safely with zig)
Igor,
Since as you say the club is dying, let's try to keep it alive by
posting a
few useful messages (if we can).
I write rarely so I feel somewhat responsible for this death myself. But
again, I think that each one of us offers what he is able to offer or
what
he thinks it is better to offer. My contribution, compared to others',
is
arithmetically small. But I guess that each member's contribution cannot
be
measured with the number of messages only. Quality should be considered
too.
Due to language problems, I am afraid I did not clearly understand your
points about zig and SR Zigzag Trend.
First of all, are you asking for SR Zigzag Trend code, or do you have it
already?
If you don't have it I will be glad to give it to you.
If you have already tested the indicator, are you saying that systems,
which
use it are no better than others?
In this case I answer:
I just provided an indicator that solves the problem of zig's revisions,
once and for all. Now everyone who wishes he had a kind of zig, which
would
be suitable for back tests, has the chance to play the game safely.
That's
all.
So far, I haven't suggested any systems. Maybe I will never have
something
like that to suggest. Every one of us may try his own ideas. Some might
be
profitable, some maybe not. But now, the fans of zigzag can be sure that
whether the results of their systems are good or bad, at least those
results
are real. No more myths.
I mean that, if one doesn't like the results, he'd better try another
system
or simply stop counting on a zigzag miracle.
One more word about SR Zigzag trend:
Regardless of the method one could use, the values returned by such an
indicator cannot be improved in any way. What I mean is, this is
zigzag's
true picture. Like it or not, but it CANNOT BE CHANGED. That is, if
someone
wants to trade zig he'd better spend time to find good usages for SR
Zigzag
trend. He will never manage to make a more responsive indicator to
validate
zig, no matter what his approach is. If you have any doubts I will be
glad
to explain why.
I haven't seen you indicator. Send it if you feel like to. I don't know
what
your hopes are but maybe your indicator is really good.
I have no objections to any private mails. I will always be glad to hear
from you privately or publically. Nevertheless, I would prefer go on
with
THIS very subject in public. I want to see everybody's reactions to this
conversation. I want to see if any other users have understood what it
is
all about. I am almost sure that only a few have realized what SR ZigZag
Trend is all about. Till now I was very disappointed by the feedback.
So, I
hope you understand.
Best
Spyros
-----Original Message-----
From: Igor [mailto:igor.devisscher@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 3:23 PM
To: 'raftsp'
Subject: RE: peak trough ...zigzag validity(trading safely with zig)
Hy Spiros,
Tnx very much for your reaction. Had the feeling that now one wanted to
reply and that the newsletter is beginning to get a little club of 7-8
persons who help each other and the rest can drop dead. Over the last 3
months asked 3 rather simple questions and no answers.
Is it possible to get this SR zig zag trendformula...?
But I start to realize that ones you place the SR zig zag function with
the peak and trough that the results will be in this way that this
system want be better then an other average good working system. Now it
makes VERY good results because it takes the liberty to throw away
positions when it realizes that they are loosing trades. So ones you ad
something that it can't do this anymore the results will be far worse.
I made a formula that also can detect a top or bottom with a bars since
HHv and bars since LLV and then it can not pull the signals back it is
like you say WYSIWYG...and then I have a result witch is far worse. But
you never know...and so I have still some (naive) hope that maybe it
could be something.
So I'm looking forward to your reaction with this SR zig zag.
Greetings igor
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of raftsp
Sent: vrijdag 7 juni 2002 11:26
To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: peak trough ...zigzag validity(trading safely with zig)
Igor:
Some time ago I posted an indicator of mine called "ZigZag Validity"
which
checks if the last dynamic leg of Zig is trusty or not. It is a binary
indicator that returns 1(=valid) or 0(=invalid). It is useful for
validating only the CURRENT value of zig. It is NOT suitable for back
tests
and systems. If you want to be able to use a valid zig function in
systems,
then use my latest "SR ZigZag Trend". Read below.
Owen:
For better understanding the zigzag functions (zig, peaks and troughs)
and
how my ZigZag validity works, you may read my article (titled "ZigZag
validity") that will be published in the August issue of the Stocks and
Commodities magazine. In the meanwhile you can review my past messages.
Everyone:
A few days ago I posted a new indicator of mine called "SR ZigZag
Trend",
which, as I believe, solves for good every problem related to the
dynamic
nature of zig. To my surprise, there were no reactions, no replies,
nothing!
The enthusiasm about ZigZag validity (a simple, not very handy
indicator)
now gave place to total indifference to a new indicator, which actually
marks the end of the zig myth! This is a also a binary indicator which
returns 1(=confirmed uptrend) or -1(=confirmed downtrend). In my
lengthy
message to the group I explained that SR Zigzag Trend:
1. is always valid. To put it simply: WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You
Get). No revisions, no redraws! Never!
2. can be used as a stand-alone indicator in Zig's place.
3. can be used safely in systems and back tests. Where one would like
to
use zig (but did not dare to), now he can use SR Zigzag trend and that's
it!
What's more, by pasting the code to his system one can even optimize the
percent parameter!
4. can also be used in experts, explorations and everywhere as any
other
custom formula.
Isn't this strange? An indicator which solves a problem as old as zig
and
which could be easily sold for $### is offered for free and nobody seems
to
have noticed it!
Anyhow, try these indicators (especially SR ZigZag Trend) and tell me
what
you think. If you don't have the codes I can post them once more.
Spyros
-----Original Message-----
From: Igor [mailto:igor.devisscher@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 3:23 PM
To: 'raftsp'
Subject: RE: peak trough ...zigzag validity(trading safely with zig)
Hy Spiros,
Tnx very much for your reaction. Had the feeling that now one wanted to
reply and that the newsletter is beginning to get a little club of 7-8
persons who help each other and the rest can drop dead. Over the last 3
months asked 3 rather simple questions and no answers.
Is it possible to get this SR zig zag trendformula...?
But I start to realize that ones you place the SR zig zag function with
the peak and trough that the results will be in this way that this
system want be better then an other average good working system. Now it
makes VERY good results because it takes the liberty to throw away
positions when it realizes that they are loosing trades. So ones you ad
something that it can't do this anymore the results will be far worse.
I made a formula that also can detect a top or bottom with a bars since
HHv and bars since LLV and then it can not pull the signals back it is
like you say WYSIWYG...and then I have a result witch is far worse. But
you never know...and so I have still some (naive) hope that maybe it
could be something.
So I'm looking forward to your reaction with this SR zig zag.
Greetings igor
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of raftsp
Sent: vrijdag 7 juni 2002 11:26
To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: peak trough ...zigzag validity(trading safely with zig)
Igor:
Some time ago I posted an indicator of mine called "ZigZag Validity"
which
checks if the last dynamic leg of Zig is trusty or not. It is a binary
indicator that returns 1(=valid) or 0(=invalid). It is useful for
validating only the CURRENT value of zig. It is NOT suitable for back
tests
and systems. If you want to be able to use a valid zig function in
systems,
then use my latest "SR ZigZag Trend". Read below.
Owen:
For better understanding the zigzag functions (zig, peaks and troughs)
and
how my ZigZag validity works, you may read my article (titled "ZigZag
validity") that will be published in the August issue of the Stocks and
Commodities magazine. In the meanwhile you can review my past messages.
Everyone:
A few days ago I posted a new indicator of mine called "SR ZigZag
Trend",
which, as I believe, solves for good every problem related to the
dynamic
nature of zig. To my surprise, there were no reactions, no replies,
nothing!
The enthusiasm about ZigZag validity (a simple, not very handy
indicator)
now gave place to total indifference to a new indicator, which actually
marks the end of the zig myth! This is a also a binary indicator which
returns 1(=confirmed uptrend) or -1(=confirmed downtrend). In my
lengthy
message to the group I explained that SR Zigzag Trend:
1. is always valid. To put it simply: WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You
Get). No revisions, no redraws! Never!
2. can be used as a stand-alone indicator in Zig's place.
3. can be used safely in systems and back tests. Where one would like
to
use zig (but did not dare to), now he can use SR Zigzag trend and that's
it!
What's more, by pasting the code to his system one can even optimize the
percent parameter!
4. can also be used in experts, explorations and everywhere as any
other
custom formula.
Isn't this strange? An indicator which solves a problem as old as zig
and
which could be easily sold for $### is offered for free and nobody seems
to
have noticed it!
Anyhow, try these indicators (especially SR ZigZag Trend) and tell me
what
you think. If you don't have the codes I can post them once more.
Spyros
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 01:32:51 +0200
From: "Igor" <igor.devisscher@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: peak trough ...zigzag validity
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Hy list,
I found this text on the internet. Is there a solution to this
problem?...Is there a way that you know that a signal will stay and NOT
afterwards disappear to call itself a winner in the results of the
tester. Is the zigzag validity maybe a solution to this problem. There
has to be a way that one knows that a peak or a trough is a 100% true
signal.?...
greetings
To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Peak and trough
From: "Al Taglavore" <altag@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:altag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 13:27:55 -0500
Reply-To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sender: owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Perhaps the problem can be
assigned to the Zig Zag feature that is used inPeaks and Troughs. Refer
to MetaStock manual (ver 7.03) page 528:"Be forewarned, that the last
leg (i.e., segment of the Zig Zag is dynamic,meaning that it can change.
Therefore, be careful when designing systemtests, experts, etc. based on
the Zig Zag indicator."Al Taglavore----------> From: Owen Davies
<owen@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Peak and
trough> Date: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 2:58 PM> > Among the many
things I don't understand, this one has> been bothering me of late:> > A
while back, I decided to check one of my assumptions> and test the
higher-high, higher-low/lower-high, lower-low> definition of trends.
The easy way was to create a system> using peak() and trough(). It
worked beautifully. Virtually> any contract I ran the system past, it
made money. This> I took to confirm the validity of the trend
definition.> > Then the obvious dawned on me: Why not see whether
there> was enough of the move left, on average, to make a buck from it>
after the peak or trough was far enough behind us to get the> signal in
real time? I wrote another system that included a delay> factor, so
that one would enter or exit a trade only when the> price had retraced
from the peak or trough by the appropriate> percentage. Again, it
worked just fine. In historical testing, it> made money like magic on
anything from 5-minute to daily bars.> > Problem: When I put it on
real-time data, it gave a lot of bad> signals. Then it suddenly
recalculated things, decided that the> minor up and down trends of the
last few weeks--this was> on smallish intraday bars--had really been a
long up trend,> gave a new set of signals, and declared itself a
winner.> > Does anyone understand these functions well enough to>
explain this behavior to me? I knew that peak() and trough()> backdate
their results by putting their signal several bars> before it was
possible to receive it; that is what I was trying> to correct with the
delay factor. Now it seems that they> also recalculate their old
percentages by comparing against> the latest data rather than limiting
themselves to the data> that available in real time.> > No doubt this is
a real beginner's mistake (despite having> played with this for years),
but it would have seemed> reasonable to assume that a change of X% three
weeks ago> should remain X%, even if we looked at it later. This sort>
of thing has to be seen within its context, or it's useless.> Is there
some reason the functions have to be written this way,> which I'm
completely overlooking, or did someone just> butcher this piece of
code?> > Many thanks.> > Owen Davies
: 19/04/02
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