Re: UNSUBSCRIBE ME

[Richard <mcbride3@xxxxxxxxxx>]

FROM:
metastock-digest wrote:
> 
> metastock-digest        Sunday, March 18 2001        Volume 01 : Number 1292
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:22:22 -0800
> From: Neal Hughes <neal@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> 
> Fibonacci techniques are excellent for this.
> 
> The idea is to calculate  a profit objective so
> you exit before a pullback..
> 
> - -Neal.
> 
> At 03:08 PM 3/15/2001 -0500, you wrote:
> >I wonder if people could comment on profit stops. It seems that I buy
> >stocks, the price increases, and then they fall down and I lose most of my
> >profits. Is it best to stick with a trailing stop or should a certain profit
> >% be used to take profits? What profit stop should be used?
> >
> >neo
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 17:52:32 -0500
> From: "Peter Gialames" <investor@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: RE: Profit Stops
> 
> Do you have any good resouces on learning these Fib techniques?  I have
> always been intrigued by them, but never learned how to use them.
> 
> Peter Gialames
> 
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Neal Hughes
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 4:22 PM
> To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> 
> Fibonacci techniques are excellent for this.
> 
> The idea is to calculate  a profit objective so
> you exit before a pullback..
> 
> - -Neal.
> 
> At 03:08 PM 3/15/2001 -0500, you wrote:
> >I wonder if people could comment on profit stops. It seems that I buy
> >stocks, the price increases, and then they fall down and I lose most of my
> >profits. Is it best to stick with a trailing stop or should a certain
> profit
> >% be used to take profits? What profit stop should be used?
> >
> >neo
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 15:29:44 -0800
> From: "David DeFina" <ddefina@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: RE: Profit Stops
> 
> I have one system that uses a 10% profit stop that works well (depending on
> volatility of stock).  I haven't had much luck with trailing stops due to my
> short term trading nature.
> 
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of neo
> Sent: Mar 15, 2001 12:09 PM
> To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Profit Stops
> 
> I wonder if people could comment on profit stops. It seems that I buy
> stocks, the price increases, and then they fall down and I lose most of my
> profits. Is it best to stick with a trailing stop or should a certain profit
> % be used to take profits? What profit stop should be used?
> 
> neo
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 23:53:16 -0000
> From: "Dan Harels" <harelsdb@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> 
> I have been combining Fibo #'s, traditional support and resistance and
> 50/200 day moving averages to identify targets with some success.  I look
> for areas where resistance or support is likely to be encountered based on
> coincidence of 2 or more of the factors listed.  When my price gets to the
> target, I take my profit.  It contrasts with the old adage about letting
> your profits run, however, I don't have my capital tied up in congestion or
> retracements when there are other opportunities.  I am looking for sure
> singles and doubles and not holding out for doubtful triples and homeruns.
> 
> This style is more suited to swing trading than trend following and I still
> have a lot to learn.
> 
> Dan
> 
> >From: Neal Hughes <neal@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Reply-To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> >Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:22:22 -0800
> >
> >
> >Fibonacci techniques are excellent for this.
> >
> >The idea is to calculate  a profit objective so
> >you exit before a pullback..
> >
> >-Neal.
> >
> >
> >At 03:08 PM 3/15/2001 -0500, you wrote:
> >>I wonder if people could comment on profit stops. It seems that I buy
> >>stocks, the price increases, and then they fall down and I lose most of my
> >>profits. Is it best to stick with a trailing stop or should a certain
> >>profit
> >>% be used to take profits? What profit stop should be used?
> >>
> >>neo
> >
> >
> >
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 15:53:05 -0800 (PST)
> From: Allan Havemose <havemose@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> 
> I often use a combination of two exit techniques. Assuming that the
> Risk on the trade is R, I will put a limit sell between 1R to 2R on
> half the position. [this give me a break-even even if the stock backs
> off a bit]. I will then trail the remaining half with 3 to 4 times
> ATR(10) from the high of the position. I will always exit with the loss
> of R if that gets hit.
> 
> Comments appreciated.
> 
> Allan
> 
> - --- neo <neo1@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > I wonder if people could comment on profit stops. It seems that I buy
> > stocks, the price increases, and then they fall down and I lose most
> > of my
> > profits. Is it best to stick with a trailing stop or should a certain
> > profit
> > % be used to take profits? What profit stop should be used?
> >
> > neo
> >
> 
> =====
> - ---
> Allan Havemose, Ph.D.
> havemose@xxxxxxxxxx
> havemose@xxxxxxxxx
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 23:57:36 -0000
> From: "Dan Harels" <harelsdb@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: RE: Profit Stops
> 
> I have found the book "The psychology of technical analysis" by Anthony
> Plummer to be an excellent reference.  It provides a good overview of mass
> psychology, fibo numbers and tries to make a theoretical tie between fibo #s
> and mass psychology.  It also offers some specific trading methodologies
> based on Fibo #s.
> 
> Dan
> 
> >From: "Peter Gialames" <investor@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Reply-To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Subject: RE: Profit Stops
> >Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 17:52:32 -0500
> >
> >Do you have any good resouces on learning these Fib techniques?  I have
> >always been intrigued by them, but never learned how to use them.
> >
> >Peter Gialames
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >[mailto:owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Neal Hughes
> >Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 4:22 PM
> >To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> >
> >
> >
> >Fibonacci techniques are excellent for this.
> >
> >The idea is to calculate  a profit objective so
> >you exit before a pullback..
> >
> >-Neal.
> >
> >
> >At 03:08 PM 3/15/2001 -0500, you wrote:
> > >I wonder if people could comment on profit stops. It seems that I buy
> > >stocks, the price increases, and then they fall down and I lose most of
> >my
> > >profits. Is it best to stick with a trailing stop or should a certain
> >profit
> > >% be used to take profits? What profit stop should be used?
> > >
> > >neo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 20:22:49 -0500
> From: "Joe Duffy" <joeduffy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> 
> This is just my opinion, which is based on my experience, but you have to
> take the large majority of a position off while it is going your way. "Let
> your profits run" has never worked for me.
> 
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: Neal Hughes <neal@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 4:22 PM
> Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> 
> >
> > Fibonacci techniques are excellent for this.
> >
> > The idea is to calculate  a profit objective so
> > you exit before a pullback..
> >
> > -Neal.
> >
> >
> > At 03:08 PM 3/15/2001 -0500, you wrote:
> > >I wonder if people could comment on profit stops. It seems that I buy
> > >stocks, the price increases, and then they fall down and I lose most of
> my
> > >profits. Is it best to stick with a trailing stop or should a certain
> profit
> > >% be used to take profits? What profit stop should be used?
> > >
> > >neo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 20:02:11 -0600
> From: "Lionel Issen" <lissen@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> 
> There are some books, like Joe Duffy, Joe DiNaoli, and Robert Fischer and
> others. I haven't read them, so I can't give you a report.
> Lionel Issen
> lissen@xxxxxxxxx
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Gialames" <investor@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 4:52 PM
> Subject: RE: Profit Stops
> 
> > Do you have any good resouces on learning these Fib techniques?  I have
> > always been intrigued by them, but never learned how to use them.
> >
> > Peter Gialames
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Neal Hughes
> > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 4:22 PM
> > To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> >
> >
> >
> > Fibonacci techniques are excellent for this.
> >
> > The idea is to calculate  a profit objective so
> > you exit before a pullback..
> >
> > -Neal.
> >
> >
> > At 03:08 PM 3/15/2001 -0500, you wrote:
> > >I wonder if people could comment on profit stops. It seems that I buy
> > >stocks, the price increases, and then they fall down and I lose most of
> my
> > >profits. Is it best to stick with a trailing stop or should a certain
> > profit
> > >% be used to take profits? What profit stop should be used?
> > >
> > >neo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:08:59 -0500
> From: "W Lake" <wlake@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> 
> Thanks Joe
> 
> A breath of fresh air ... and some sanity in the trading area.
> 
> I'd be glad to read your opinions any day.
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Walter
> 
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joe Duffy <joeduffy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 8:22 PM
> Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> 
> > This is just my opinion, which is based on my experience, but you have to
> > take the large majority of a position off while it is going your way. "Let
> > your profits run" has never worked for me.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Neal Hughes <neal@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 4:22 PM
> > Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Fibonacci techniques are excellent for this.
> > >
> > > The idea is to calculate  a profit objective so
> > > you exit before a pullback..
> > >
> > > -Neal.
> > >
> > >
> > > At 03:08 PM 3/15/2001 -0500, you wrote:
> > > >I wonder if people could comment on profit stops. It seems that I buy
> > > >stocks, the price increases, and then they fall down and I lose most of
> > my
> > > >profits. Is it best to stick with a trailing stop or should a certain
> > profit
> > > >% be used to take profits? What profit stop should be used?
> > > >
> > > >neo
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:04:10 EST
> From: ROSOW@xxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> 
> - --part1_43.120c6f66.27e2ce9a_boundary
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> Pete,
>     Go to www.dynamictraders.com and go to the educational archive. There is
> a wealth of information there.
> 
> Lenny
> 
> - --part1_43.120c6f66.27e2ce9a_boundary
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial Rounded MT Bold" LANG="0">Pete,
> <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Go to www.dynamictraders.com and go to the educational archive. There is
> <BR>a wealth of information there.
> <BR>
> <BR>Lenny </FONT></HTML>
> 
> - --part1_43.120c6f66.27e2ce9a_boundary--
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:44:15 -0500
> From: "W Lake" <wlake@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Bill Ws stuff
> 
> Thanks for your emails
> 
> The TS code from the site will be of interest.
> 
> http://home.t-online.de/home/UWKaestner/
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Walter
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 20:11:36 -0800
> From: Neal Hughes <neal@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: RE: Profit Stops
> 
> Peter,
> 
> When I started with Fibs, I read just about everything..
> 
> There is a ton of intellectually interesting, entertaining,
> poetic, mystical, stuff about Fibonacci.. Some of it
> is so complex and theoretical there is no way to
> figure out how to apply it in the markets.. Some of the
> material seems as though it is written to intentionally
> mystify! Some of it works some of the time but only
> just enough to keep you interested..
> 
> I eventually settled for Joe DiNapoli's techniques, see
> http://www.fibtrader.com  because they are
> practical and make sense to me. Joe discards all the
> confusing aspects, and presents a solid trading plan.
> 
> When I was newer to that stuff, I wrote a review on DiNapoli's
> book, you'll find it on the above website somewhere.
> 
> I've since become a biased fan of these techniques,
> and I present seminars on DiNapoli techniques. These
> may not be the only Fib techniques that work, but they
> are my preference.
> 
> I'm totally against trailing stops, for many reasons.
> I'm usually entering the market exactly where those
> with trailing stops are exiting. So they take the other
> side of my trade.. Trailing stops generate horrible
> slippage, and often get you out of the market at
> the worst time..
> 
> - -Neal.
> 
> At 05:52 PM 3/15/2001 -0500, Peter Gialames wrote:
> >Do you have any good resouces on learning these Fib techniques?  I have
> >always been intrigued by them, but never learned how to use them.
> >
> >Peter Gialames
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >[mailto:owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Neal Hughes
> >Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 4:22 PM
> >To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> >
> >
> >
> >Fibonacci techniques are excellent for this.
> >
> >The idea is to calculate  a profit objective so
> >you exit before a pullback..
> >
> >-Neal.
> >
> >
> >At 03:08 PM 3/15/2001 -0500, you wrote:
> > >I wonder if people could comment on profit stops. It seems that I buy
> > >stocks, the price increases, and then they fall down and I lose most of my
> > >profits. Is it best to stick with a trailing stop or should a certain
> >profit
> > >% be used to take profits? What profit stop should be used?
> > >
> > >neo
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 23:17:19 -0700
> From: "Ron Scott" <ron@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: RE: Profit Stops
> 
> Neal-
> 
> Just wondering why the Dinapoli book is not available on Amazon, where most
> trading books are available, along with a wide range of reader reviews?  It
> is always nice to get a variety of opinions before plunking down $160 for
> yet another TA tome.....
> 
> Ron Scott
> 
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Neal Hughes
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 9:12 PM
> To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: Profit Stops
> 
> Peter,
> 
> When I started with Fibs, I read just about everything..
> 
> There is a ton of intellectually interesting, entertaining,
> poetic, mystical, stuff about Fibonacci.. Some of it
> is so complex and theoretical there is no way to
> figure out how to apply it in the markets.. Some of the
> material seems as though it is written to intentionally
> mystify! Some of it works some of the time but only
> just enough to keep you interested..
> 
> I eventually settled for Joe DiNapoli's techniques, see
> http://www.fibtrader.com  because they are
> practical and make sense to me. Joe discards all the
> confusing aspects, and presents a solid trading plan.
> 
> When I was newer to that stuff, I wrote a review on DiNapoli's
> book, you'll find it on the above website somewhere.
> 
> I've since become a biased fan of these techniques,
> and I present seminars on DiNapoli techniques. These
> may not be the only Fib techniques that work, but they
> are my preference.
> 
> I'm totally against trailing stops, for many reasons.
> I'm usually entering the market exactly where those
> with trailing stops are exiting. So they take the other
> side of my trade.. Trailing stops generate horrible
> slippage, and often get you out of the market at
> the worst time..
> 
> - -Neal.
> 
> At 05:52 PM 3/15/2001 -0500, Peter Gialames wrote:
> >Do you have any good resouces on learning these Fib techniques?  I have
> >always been intrigued by them, but never learned how to use them.
> >
> >Peter Gialames
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >[mailto:owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Neal Hughes
> >Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 4:22 PM
> >To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> >
> >
> >
> >Fibonacci techniques are excellent for this.
> >
> >The idea is to calculate  a profit objective so
> >you exit before a pullback..
> >
> >-Neal.
> >
> >
> >At 03:08 PM 3/15/2001 -0500, you wrote:
> > >I wonder if people could comment on profit stops. It seems that I buy
> > >stocks, the price increases, and then they fall down and I lose most of
> my
> > >profits. Is it best to stick with a trailing stop or should a certain
> >profit
> > >% be used to take profits? What profit stop should be used?
> > >
> > >neo
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 23:15:04 -0800
> From: Neal Hughes <neal@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: RE: Profit Stops
> 
> Ron,
> 
> No idea! They used to stock it.. Give Amazon a call,
> or try Barnes & Noble?
> 
> I know the book "Trading with DiNapoli Levels"
> was the number-one best-seller at
> Traders Press.
> 
> FYI, if you buy the book direct from Joe DiNapoli's
> website you get free access to his proprietary client
> web pages, a way better value than a book-seller discount.
> 
> There is a 30-day return guarantee on the book too (if
> you order from the author), so it's a low-risk trade.
> 
> - -Neal.
> 
> At 11:17 PM 3/15/2001 -0700, you wrote:
> >Neal-
> >
> >Just wondering why the Dinapoli book is not available on Amazon, where most
> >trading books are available, along with a wide range of reader reviews?  It
> >is always nice to get a variety of opinions before plunking down $160 for
> >yet another TA tome.....
> >
> >Ron Scott
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >[mailto:owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Neal Hughes
> >Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 9:12 PM
> >To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Subject: RE: Profit Stops
> >
> >
> >
> >Peter,
> >
> >When I started with Fibs, I read just about everything..
> >
> >There is a ton of intellectually interesting, entertaining,
> >poetic, mystical, stuff about Fibonacci.. Some of it
> >is so complex and theoretical there is no way to
> >figure out how to apply it in the markets.. Some of the
> >material seems as though it is written to intentionally
> >mystify! Some of it works some of the time but only
> >just enough to keep you interested..
> >
> >I eventually settled for Joe DiNapoli's techniques, see
> >http://www.fibtrader.com  because they are
> >practical and make sense to me. Joe discards all the
> >confusing aspects, and presents a solid trading plan.
> >
> >When I was newer to that stuff, I wrote a review on DiNapoli's
> >book, you'll find it on the above website somewhere.
> >
> >I've since become a biased fan of these techniques,
> >and I present seminars on DiNapoli techniques. These
> >may not be the only Fib techniques that work, but they
> >are my preference.
> >
> >I'm totally against trailing stops, for many reasons.
> >I'm usually entering the market exactly where those
> >with trailing stops are exiting. So they take the other
> >side of my trade.. Trailing stops generate horrible
> >slippage, and often get you out of the market at
> >the worst time..
> >
> >-Neal.
> >
> >
> >
> >At 05:52 PM 3/15/2001 -0500, Peter Gialames wrote:
> > >Do you have any good resouces on learning these Fib techniques?  I have
> > >always been intrigued by them, but never learned how to use them.
> > >
> > >Peter Gialames
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >[mailto:owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Neal Hughes
> > >Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 4:22 PM
> > >To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Fibonacci techniques are excellent for this.
> > >
> > >The idea is to calculate  a profit objective so
> > >you exit before a pullback..
> > >
> > >-Neal.
> > >
> > >
> > >At 03:08 PM 3/15/2001 -0500, you wrote:
> > > >I wonder if people could comment on profit stops. It seems that I buy
> > > >stocks, the price increases, and then they fall down and I lose most of
> >my
> > > >profits. Is it best to stick with a trailing stop or should a certain
> > >profit
> > > >% be used to take profits? What profit stop should be used?
> > > >
> > > >neo
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 01:51:14 -0600
> From: "jhmtn" <jhmtn@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> 
> Ron,
> 
> I'm partial to http://www.traderslibrary.com .  Once you have bought one
> book from them, you get these email "sale" offers which about every 8 weeks
> or so include a free shipping offer.  The prices are often less than
> Amazon's by a few dollars and with the free shipping specials, it's well
> worth the effort.  They don't have a review section, but you can see the
> Table of Contents for most of the publications.  (For reviews, I sneak over
> to Amazon and take a peek.)
> 
> John
> 
> - ----- Original Message -----
> 
> > Neal-
> >
> > Just wondering why the Dinapoli book is not available on Amazon, where
> most
> > trading books are available, along with a wide range of reader reviews?
> It
> > is always nice to get a variety of opinions before plunking down $160 for
> > yet another TA tome.....
> >
> > Ron Scott
> >
> >
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:06:26 -0000
> From: "David Jennings" <davidjennings@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> 
> Try the Global investor site - http://www.global-investor.com/
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron Scott" <ron@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 6:17 AM
> Subject: RE: Profit Stops
> 
> > Neal-
> >
> > Just wondering why the Dinapoli book is not available on Amazon, where
> most
> > trading books are available, along with a wide range of reader reviews?
> It
> > is always nice to get a variety of opinions before plunking down $160 for
> > yet another TA tome.....
> >
> > Ron Scott
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Neal Hughes
> > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 9:12 PM
> > To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: RE: Profit Stops
> >
> >
> >
> > Peter,
> >
> > When I started with Fibs, I read just about everything..
> >
> > There is a ton of intellectually interesting, entertaining,
> > poetic, mystical, stuff about Fibonacci.. Some of it
> > is so complex and theoretical there is no way to
> > figure out how to apply it in the markets.. Some of the
> > material seems as though it is written to intentionally
> > mystify! Some of it works some of the time but only
> > just enough to keep you interested..
> >
> > I eventually settled for Joe DiNapoli's techniques, see
> > http://www.fibtrader.com  because they are
> > practical and make sense to me. Joe discards all the
> > confusing aspects, and presents a solid trading plan.
> >
> > When I was newer to that stuff, I wrote a review on DiNapoli's
> > book, you'll find it on the above website somewhere.
> >
> > I've since become a biased fan of these techniques,
> > and I present seminars on DiNapoli techniques. These
> > may not be the only Fib techniques that work, but they
> > are my preference.
> >
> > I'm totally against trailing stops, for many reasons.
> > I'm usually entering the market exactly where those
> > with trailing stops are exiting. So they take the other
> > side of my trade.. Trailing stops generate horrible
> > slippage, and often get you out of the market at
> > the worst time..
> >
> > -Neal.
> >
> >
> >
> > At 05:52 PM 3/15/2001 -0500, Peter Gialames wrote:
> > >Do you have any good resouces on learning these Fib techniques?  I have
> > >always been intrigued by them, but never learned how to use them.
> > >
> > >Peter Gialames
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >[mailto:owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Neal Hughes
> > >Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 4:22 PM
> > >To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Fibonacci techniques are excellent for this.
> > >
> > >The idea is to calculate  a profit objective so
> > >you exit before a pullback..
> > >
> > >-Neal.
> > >
> > >
> > >At 03:08 PM 3/15/2001 -0500, you wrote:
> > > >I wonder if people could comment on profit stops. It seems that I buy
> > > >stocks, the price increases, and then they fall down and I lose most of
> > my
> > > >profits. Is it best to stick with a trailing stop or should a certain
> > >profit
> > > >% be used to take profits? What profit stop should be used?
> > > >
> > > >neo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 07:30:01 -0500
> From: "W Lake" <wlake@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: dll and calls to dlls
> 
> This came through on the Excel-L list and should answer the question that
> you asked earlier.
> 
> The calls from VBA are shown on the very bottom of the last page listed
> below.
> "Dynamic Link Libraries in Excel/Visual Basic" e.g.,
> 
> "The visual basic code looks like this and makes the functions/subs
> available in visual basic and Excel
> 
> Declare Function savitri Lib "c2vbtest.dll" (ByVal x As Double) As Double"
> 
> The microsoft article shows you what kind of animal you are dealing with. So
> trying to find a specific "formula" to change in the dll may drive you nuts.
> <G>
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Walter
> 
> =================================
> 
> The following may help - shows how to write dll's in Fortran & C/C++ and
> call
> from Excel VBA:
> http://www.mathfinance.de/ - on the Left-hand menu click on "Front Office,"
> then
>  "Excel/Visual Basic," finally "Dynamic Link Library usage in Microsoft
> Excel/Visual Basic."
> 
> This is from MSDN, more general information:
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?URL=/library/techart/msdn_intr
> o.htm
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 07:43:56 -0500
> From: "Joe Duffy" <joeduffy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> 
> The idea of Fib targets is in essence the same as retracements. That is that
> ANY 3 points (that is any combination of high or low pivots) MIGHT be
> divisible in the Fibonacci ratios. It is in essence a division of any space
> delineated by any combo of swing highs and lows. If you know 2 points it is
> simple math to forecast the third.
> 
> That's a lot of potential choices you say? Well, your right. That is why in
> my opinion you can't just use one thing to calculate your potential support
> and resistance. Your chances increase exponentially if you have two or even
> three measures involving different high and low pivots and/or ratios
> yielding very close to the same target area. A lot of work you say? Well,
> your right again. How to make it simpler?
> 
> First, after you become familar with the techniques, you can kind of eyeball
> the charts and spot potential
> setups. Like wise, you can see where nothing is likely to be close. That's
> just experience.
> 
> However you might be just as well served to forget this stuff. It works, if
> you do the work and have the experience. But if you want to go a shorter
> route, you might try just eyeballing an oscillator, something like say the
> Chande momentum index. Take a look at where tops and bottoms usually form in
> your market on average. Try 2 or 3 different oscillator lengths together.
> You will be able to draw a pair of  horizontal lines on the chart which will
> be roughly coincident with levels where swings tend to bottom out or top
> out. Hence you know the level where, in a general statistical sense, any
> swing move is getting long in the tooth. This is your profit taking area.
> 
> The other thing to note is Fibonacci is not as easy as it once was. In the
> mid 80's when I started using Fibonacci relationships, they hit turns
> fantastically with near 90% reliability. Unfortunately, I didn't have the
> confidence or the other trading skills necessary to take true advantage of
> what I had discovered. It's definitely not as easy now, as more people are
> armed with the same information. Even worse for the Gann Square of Nine,
> which was an unbelievable tool until it became part of more main stream
> technical analysis.
> 
> The other piece of advice I might give is "think outside the box". Just
> because it is written in a book does not mean it's right. And other times
> what is written, may not be the full extent of potential for the concepot or
> idea discussed. If you are attracted to the type of analysis that is
> different then say programming on TradeStation, you need to bring your
> imigination with you on your journey.
> 
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ron Scott <ron@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 1:17 AM
> Subject: RE: Profit Stops
> 
> > Neal-
> >
> > Just wondering why the Dinapoli book is not available on Amazon, where
> most
> > trading books are available, along with a wide range of reader reviews?
> It
> > is always nice to get a variety of opinions before plunking down $160 for
> > yet another TA tome.....
> >
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 07:03:14 -0700
> From: "Ron Scott" <ron@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: RE: Profit Stops
> 
> Joe-
> 
> That was a most informative post. I had never even thought of using a series
> of oscillators to calculate support and resistance levels. I have always
> just been focused on overbought/oversold and divergence. Thanks for a great
> idea.
> 
> Ron Scott
> 
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Joe Duffy
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 5:44 AM
> To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> 
> The idea of Fib targets is in essence the same as retracements. That is that
> ANY 3 points (that is any combination of high or low pivots) MIGHT be
> divisible in the Fibonacci ratios. It is in essence a division of any space
> delineated by any combo of swing highs and lows. If you know 2 points it is
> simple math to forecast the third.
> 
> That's a lot of potential choices you say? Well, your right. That is why in
> my opinion you can't just use one thing to calculate your potential support
> and resistance. Your chances increase exponentially if you have two or even
> three measures involving different high and low pivots and/or ratios
> yielding very close to the same target area. A lot of work you say? Well,
> your right again. How to make it simpler?
> 
> First, after you become familar with the techniques, you can kind of eyeball
> the charts and spot potential
> setups. Like wise, you can see where nothing is likely to be close. That's
> just experience.
> 
> However you might be just as well served to forget this stuff. It works, if
> you do the work and have the experience. But if you want to go a shorter
> route, you might try just eyeballing an oscillator, something like say the
> Chande momentum index. Take a look at where tops and bottoms usually form in
> your market on average. Try 2 or 3 different oscillator lengths together.
> You will be able to draw a pair of  horizontal lines on the chart which will
> be roughly coincident with levels where swings tend to bottom out or top
> out. Hence you know the level where, in a general statistical sense, any
> swing move is getting long in the tooth. This is your profit taking area.
> 
> The other thing to note is Fibonacci is not as easy as it once was. In the
> mid 80's when I started using Fibonacci relationships, they hit turns
> fantastically with near 90% reliability. Unfortunately, I didn't have the
> confidence or the other trading skills necessary to take true advantage of
> what I had discovered. It's definitely not as easy now, as more people are
> armed with the same information. Even worse for the Gann Square of Nine,
> which was an unbelievable tool until it became part of more main stream
> technical analysis.
> 
> The other piece of advice I might give is "think outside the box". Just
> because it is written in a book does not mean it's right. And other times
> what is written, may not be the full extent of potential for the concepot or
> idea discussed. If you are attracted to the type of analysis that is
> different then say programming on TradeStation, you need to bring your
> imigination with you on your journey.
> 
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ron Scott <ron@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 1:17 AM
> Subject: RE: Profit Stops
> 
> > Neal-
> >
> > Just wondering why the Dinapoli book is not available on Amazon, where
> most
> > trading books are available, along with a wide range of reader reviews?
> It
> > is always nice to get a variety of opinions before plunking down $160 for
> > yet another TA tome.....
> >
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:27:03 -0500
> From: "W Lake" <wlake@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: math and 3D plots
> 
> Thanks for your emails
> 
> What you are talking about is the confusion between Math and Arithmetic.
> 
> Most of the stuff in Metastock and Excel is Arithmetic, i.e., the
> calculations and algorithms. The hard stuff is usually the "Math".
> 
> Personally, I stick with the easier Arithmetic and only get dragged into
> Math kicking and screaming. There are some very good Math people on the list
> who love the stuff and could easily explain the difference between
> Arithmetic and Math as it relates to Metastock and Excel.
> 
> You need a 3D plot to handle equations that have two variables. The points
> of the array are plotted in 3d space and joined by straight line segments.
> That's why you get the wired grid look with the cute bright colours.
> 
> I like Derive because it's got all those easy to use buttons right on the
> algebra window so now I can quickly punch in all of Simons' expressions and
> get those neat looking plots.
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Walter
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:05:23 -0600
> From: "Lionel Issen" <lissen@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> 
> bookpricer.com  has it, no discounts.
> 
> Lionel Issen
> lissen@xxxxxxxxx
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron Scott" <ron@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 12:17 AM
> Subject: RE: Profit Stops
> 
> > Neal-
> >
> > Just wondering why the Dinapoli book is not available on Amazon, where
> most
> > trading books are available, along with a wide range of reader reviews?
> It
> > is always nice to get a variety of opinions before plunking down $160 for
> > yet another TA tome.....
> >
> > Ron Scott
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Neal Hughes
> > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 9:12 PM
> > To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: RE: Profit Stops
> >
> >
> >
> > Peter,
> >
> > When I started with Fibs, I read just about everything..
> >
> > There is a ton of intellectually interesting, entertaining,
> > poetic, mystical, stuff about Fibonacci.. Some of it
> > is so complex and theoretical there is no way to
> > figure out how to apply it in the markets.. Some of the
> > material seems as though it is written to intentionally
> > mystify! Some of it works some of the time but only
> > just enough to keep you interested..
> >
> > I eventually settled for Joe DiNapoli's techniques, see
> > http://www.fibtrader.com  because they are
> > practical and make sense to me. Joe discards all the
> > confusing aspects, and presents a solid trading plan.
> >
> > When I was newer to that stuff, I wrote a review on DiNapoli's
> > book, you'll find it on the above website somewhere.
> >
> > I've since become a biased fan of these techniques,
> > and I present seminars on DiNapoli techniques. These
> > may not be the only Fib techniques that work, but they
> > are my preference.
> >
> > I'm totally against trailing stops, for many reasons.
> > I'm usually entering the market exactly where those
> > with trailing stops are exiting. So they take the other
> > side of my trade.. Trailing stops generate horrible
> > slippage, and often get you out of the market at
> > the worst time..
> >
> > -Neal.
> >
> >
> >
> > At 05:52 PM 3/15/2001 -0500, Peter Gialames wrote:
> > >Do you have any good resouces on learning these Fib techniques?  I have
> > >always been intrigued by them, but never learned how to use them.
> > >
> > >Peter Gialames
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >[mailto:owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Neal Hughes
> > >Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 4:22 PM
> > >To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Fibonacci techniques are excellent for this.
> > >
> > >The idea is to calculate  a profit objective so
> > >you exit before a pullback..
> > >
> > >-Neal.
> > >
> > >
> > >At 03:08 PM 3/15/2001 -0500, you wrote:
> > > >I wonder if people could comment on profit stops. It seems that I buy
> > > >stocks, the price increases, and then they fall down and I lose most of
> > my
> > > >profits. Is it best to stick with a trailing stop or should a certain
> > >profit
> > > >% be used to take profits? What profit stop should be used?
> > > >
> > > >neo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:12:27 -0600
> From: "Lionel Issen" <lissen@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> 
> Joe:
> Excellent advice. As my late Father used to say "There is no royal road to
> learning".
> Lionel Issen
> lissen@xxxxxxxxx
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Duffy" <joeduffy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 6:43 AM
> Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> 
> >
> > The idea of Fib targets is in essence the same as retracements. That is
> that
> > ANY 3 points (that is any combination of high or low pivots) MIGHT be
> > divisible in the Fibonacci ratios. It is in essence a division of any
> space
> > delineated by any combo of swing highs and lows. If you know 2 points it
> is
> > simple math to forecast the third.
> >
> > That's a lot of potential choices you say? Well, your right. That is why
> in
> > my opinion you can't just use one thing to calculate your potential
> support
> > and resistance. Your chances increase exponentially if you have two or
> even
> > three measures involving different high and low pivots and/or ratios
> > yielding very close to the same target area. A lot of work you say? Well,
> > your right again. How to make it simpler?
> >
> > First, after you become familar with the techniques, you can kind of
> eyeball
> > the charts and spot potential
> > setups. Like wise, you can see where nothing is likely to be close. That's
> > just experience.
> >
> > However you might be just as well served to forget this stuff. It works,
> if
> > you do the work and have the experience. But if you want to go a shorter
> > route, you might try just eyeballing an oscillator, something like say the
> > Chande momentum index. Take a look at where tops and bottoms usually form
> in
> > your market on average. Try 2 or 3 different oscillator lengths together.
> > You will be able to draw a pair of  horizontal lines on the chart which
> will
> > be roughly coincident with levels where swings tend to bottom out or top
> > out. Hence you know the level where, in a general statistical sense, any
> > swing move is getting long in the tooth. This is your profit taking area.
> >
> > The other thing to note is Fibonacci is not as easy as it once was. In the
> > mid 80's when I started using Fibonacci relationships, they hit turns
> > fantastically with near 90% reliability. Unfortunately, I didn't have the
> > confidence or the other trading skills necessary to take true advantage of
> > what I had discovered. It's definitely not as easy now, as more people are
> > armed with the same information. Even worse for the Gann Square of Nine,
> > which was an unbelievable tool until it became part of more main stream
> > technical analysis.
> >
> > The other piece of advice I might give is "think outside the box". Just
> > because it is written in a book does not mean it's right. And other times
> > what is written, may not be the full extent of potential for the concepot
> or
> > idea discussed. If you are attracted to the type of analysis that is
> > different then say programming on TradeStation, you need to bring your
> > imigination with you on your journey.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Ron Scott <ron@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 1:17 AM
> > Subject: RE: Profit Stops
> >
> >
> > > Neal-
> > >
> > > Just wondering why the Dinapoli book is not available on Amazon, where
> > most
> > > trading books are available, along with a wide range of reader reviews?
> > It
> > > is always nice to get a variety of opinions before plunking down $160
> for
> > > yet another TA tome.....
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:49:03 -0600
> From: "Lionel Issen" <lissen@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> 
> Ron:
> 
> The idea of different parameter lengths isn't new. It is the basis of the
> macd and Curtis Dahl used this idea in his book about half a century ago.
> The concept was in front of our noses and we didn't realize it until Joe
> Duffy pointed it out.
> 
> Thank you Joe Duffy for sharing your knowledge and experience.
> Lionel Issen
> lissen@xxxxxxxxx
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron Scott" <ron@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 8:03 AM
> Subject: RE: Profit Stops
> 
> > Joe-
> >
> > That was a most informative post. I had never even thought of using a
> series
> > of oscillators to calculate support and resistance levels. I have always
> > just been focused on overbought/oversold and divergence. Thanks for a
> great
> > idea.
> >
> > Ron Scott
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Joe Duffy
> > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 5:44 AM
> > To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> >
> >
> >
> > The idea of Fib targets is in essence the same as retracements. That is
> that
> > ANY 3 points (that is any combination of high or low pivots) MIGHT be
> > divisible in the Fibonacci ratios. It is in essence a division of any
> space
> > delineated by any combo of swing highs and lows. If you know 2 points it
> is
> > simple math to forecast the third.
> >
> > That's a lot of potential choices you say? Well, your right. That is why
> in
> > my opinion you can't just use one thing to calculate your potential
> support
> > and resistance. Your chances increase exponentially if you have two or
> even
> > three measures involving different high and low pivots and/or ratios
> > yielding very close to the same target area. A lot of work you say? Well,
> > your right again. How to make it simpler?
> >
> > First, after you become familar with the techniques, you can kind of
> eyeball
> > the charts and spot potential
> > setups. Like wise, you can see where nothing is likely to be close. That's
> > just experience.
> >
> > However you might be just as well served to forget this stuff. It works,
> if
> > you do the work and have the experience. But if you want to go a shorter
> > route, you might try just eyeballing an oscillator, something like say the
> > Chande momentum index. Take a look at where tops and bottoms usually form
> in
> > your market on average. Try 2 or 3 different oscillator lengths together.
> > You will be able to draw a pair of  horizontal lines on the chart which
> will
> > be roughly coincident with levels where swings tend to bottom out or top
> > out. Hence you know the level where, in a general statistical sense, any
> > swing move is getting long in the tooth. This is your profit taking area.
> >
> > The other thing to note is Fibonacci is not as easy as it once was. In the
> > mid 80's when I started using Fibonacci relationships, they hit turns
> > fantastically with near 90% reliability. Unfortunately, I didn't have the
> > confidence or the other trading skills necessary to take true advantage of
> > what I had discovered. It's definitely not as easy now, as more people are
> > armed with the same information. Even worse for the Gann Square of Nine,
> > which was an unbelievable tool until it became part of more main stream
> > technical analysis.
> >
> > The other piece of advice I might give is "think outside the box". Just
> > because it is written in a book does not mean it's right. And other times
> > what is written, may not be the full extent of potential for the concepot
> or
> > idea discussed. If you are attracted to the type of analysis that is
> > different then say programming on TradeStation, you need to bring your
> > imigination with you on your journey.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Ron Scott <ron@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 1:17 AM
> > Subject: RE: Profit Stops
> >
> >
> > > Neal-
> > >
> > > Just wondering why the Dinapoli book is not available on Amazon, where
> > most
> > > trading books are available, along with a wide range of reader reviews?
> > It
> > > is always nice to get a variety of opinions before plunking down $160
> for
> > > yet another TA tome.....
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:29:19 -0500
> From: "Joe Duffy" <joeduffy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> 
> My only thought to add here, is that while I do prefer to buy dips and sell
> rallies as a rule, this particular idea with the CMO was more oriented
> toward taking profits then finding support or resistance, which was the
> original thought in this thread.
> 
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ron Scott <ron@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 9:03 AM
> Subject: RE: Profit Stops
> 
> > Joe-
> >
> > That was a most informative post. I had never even thought of using a
> series
> > of oscillators to calculate support and resistance levels. I have always
> > just been focused on overbought/oversold and divergence. Thanks for a
> great
> > idea.
> >
> > Ron Scott
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Joe Duffy
> > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 5:44 AM
> > To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> >
> >
> >
> > The idea of Fib targets is in essence the same as retracements. That is
> that
> > ANY 3 points (that is any combination of high or low pivots) MIGHT be
> > divisible in the Fibonacci ratios. It is in essence a division of any
> space
> > delineated by any combo of swing highs and lows. If you know 2 points it
> is
> > simple math to forecast the third.
> >
> > That's a lot of potential choices you say? Well, your right. That is why
> in
> > my opinion you can't just use one thing to calculate your potential
> support
> > and resistance. Your chances increase exponentially if you have two or
> even
> > three measures involving different high and low pivots and/or ratios
> > yielding very close to the same target area. A lot of work you say? Well,
> > your right again. How to make it simpler?
> >
> > First, after you become familar with the techniques, you can kind of
> eyeball
> > the charts and spot potential
> > setups. Like wise, you can see where nothing is likely to be close. That's
> > just experience.
> >
> > However you might be just as well served to forget this stuff. It works,
> if
> > you do the work and have the experience. But if you want to go a shorter
> > route, you might try just eyeballing an oscillator, something like say the
> > Chande momentum index. Take a look at where tops and bottoms usually form
> in
> > your market on average. Try 2 or 3 different oscillator lengths together.
> > You will be able to draw a pair of  horizontal lines on the chart which
> will
> > be roughly coincident with levels where swings tend to bottom out or top
> > out. Hence you know the level where, in a general statistical sense, any
> > swing move is getting long in the tooth. This is your profit taking area.
> >
> > The other thing to note is Fibonacci is not as easy as it once was. In the
> > mid 80's when I started using Fibonacci relationships, they hit turns
> > fantastically with near 90% reliability. Unfortunately, I didn't have the
> > confidence or the other trading skills necessary to take true advantage of
> > what I had discovered. It's definitely not as easy now, as more people are
> > armed with the same information. Even worse for the Gann Square of Nine,
> > which was an unbelievable tool until it became part of more main stream
> > technical analysis.
> >
> > The other piece of advice I might give is "think outside the box". Just
> > because it is written in a book does not mean it's right. And other times
> > what is written, may not be the full extent of potential for the concepot
> or
> > idea discussed. If you are attracted to the type of analysis that is
> > different then say programming on TradeStation, you need to bring your
> > imigination with you on your journey.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Ron Scott <ron@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 1:17 AM
> > Subject: RE: Profit Stops
> >
> >
> > > Neal-
> > >
> > > Just wondering why the Dinapoli book is not available on Amazon, where
> > most
> > > trading books are available, along with a wide range of reader reviews?
> > It
> > > is always nice to get a variety of opinions before plunking down $160
> for
> > > yet another TA tome.....
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 13:23:26 -0600
> From: "Lionel Issen" <lissen@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: math and 3D plots
> 
> Walter:
> 
> I may have misunderstood your posting.
> 
> Arithmetic is math, so is geometry, algebra in all its varieties, chaos
> theory, statistics and ad infinitum.
> Metastock uses algebra, the simple kind that's taught in grade and high
> school, its mostly symbolic arithmetic.
> 
> Excel is much more than arithmetic, it's just that we use the simple
> capabilities the most.
> 
> Two variables require only a 2 D space to plot, not 3 D. You can plot 2
> variables in a 3 D space, but all the results will lie on a plane.
> 
> I agree with you, simpler is better, just as long as it isn't simple-minded.
> 
> Thanks again for telling me about Derive.
> 
> Aside from this, since you like simplicity in analysis: the Eiffel Tower was
> designed/analyzed using graphical methods, no arithmetic or algebraic
> analysis were used; the arch in St. Louis was designed/analyzed using slide
> rules.  Both these structures are fairly complicated.
> 
> I don't want to start a new thread. Please e-mail me direct.
> 
> Lionel Issen
> lissen@xxxxxxxxx
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "W Lake" <wlake@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 8:27 AM
> Subject: math and 3D plots
> 
> > Thanks for your emails
> >
> > What you are talking about is the confusion between Math and Arithmetic.
> >
> > Most of the stuff in Metastock and Excel is Arithmetic, i.e., the
> > calculations and algorithms. The hard stuff is usually the "Math".
> >
> > Personally, I stick with the easier Arithmetic and only get dragged into
> > Math kicking and screaming. There are some very good Math people on the
> list
> > who love the stuff and could easily explain the difference between
> > Arithmetic and Math as it relates to Metastock and Excel.
> >
> > You need a 3D plot to handle equations that have two variables. The points
> > of the array are plotted in 3d space and joined by straight line segments.
> > That's why you get the wired grid look with the cute bright colours.
> >
> > I like Derive because it's got all those easy to use buttons right on the
> > algebra window so now I can quickly punch in all of Simons' expressions
> and
> > get those neat looking plots.
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > Walter
> >
> >
> >
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 21:42:14 +0100
> From: MikeSuesserott@xxxxxxxxxxx (MikeSuesserott)
> Subject: AW: math and 3D plots
> 
> Hello Lionel,
> 
> why not start a new thread. That's interesting stuff! What I can bring to
> the party is a recommendation of Mathematica 4.1 (www.wolfram.com) which is
> the only symbolic math package which is also fully programmable. Its
> powerful programming language is infinitely versatile, enabling one to
> choose between, or mix,  procedural, functional, object-oriented,
> rule-based, and other styles. And of course it can do all that Derive,
> Maple, MathLab etc. can do, all the graphics programming, and much more.
> 
> You can get a first impression of Mathematica at
> http://library.wolfram.com/explorations/web/.
> 
> No connections etc. etc.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Michael Suesserott
> 
> - -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]Im Auftrag von Lionel Issen
> Gesendet: Friday, March 16, 2001 20:23
> An: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Betreff: Re: math and 3D plots
> 
> Walter:
> 
> I may have misunderstood your posting.
> 
> Arithmetic is math, so is geometry, algebra in all its varieties, chaos
> theory, statistics and ad infinitum.
> Metastock uses algebra, the simple kind that's taught in grade and high
> school, its mostly symbolic arithmetic.
> 
> Excel is much more than arithmetic, it's just that we use the simple
> capabilities the most.
> 
> Two variables require only a 2 D space to plot, not 3 D. You can plot 2
> variables in a 3 D space, but all the results will lie on a plane.
> 
> I agree with you, simpler is better, just as long as it isn't simple-minded.
> 
> Thanks again for telling me about Derive.
> 
> Aside from this, since you like simplicity in analysis: the Eiffel Tower was
> designed/analyzed using graphical methods, no arithmetic or algebraic
> analysis were used; the arch in St. Louis was designed/analyzed using slide
> rules.  Both these structures are fairly complicated.
> 
> I don't want to start a new thread. Please e-mail me direct.
> 
> Lionel Issen
> lissen@xxxxxxxxx
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "W Lake" <wlake@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 8:27 AM
> Subject: math and 3D plots
> 
> > Thanks for your emails
> >
> > What you are talking about is the confusion between Math and Arithmetic.
> >
> > Most of the stuff in Metastock and Excel is Arithmetic, i.e., the
> > calculations and algorithms. The hard stuff is usually the "Math".
> >
> > Personally, I stick with the easier Arithmetic and only get dragged into
> > Math kicking and screaming. There are some very good Math people on the
> list
> > who love the stuff and could easily explain the difference between
> > Arithmetic and Math as it relates to Metastock and Excel.
> >
> > You need a 3D plot to handle equations that have two variables. The points
> > of the array are plotted in 3d space and joined by straight line segments.
> > That's why you get the wired grid look with the cute bright colours.
> >
> > I like Derive because it's got all those easy to use buttons right on the
> > algebra window so now I can quickly punch in all of Simons' expressions
> and
> > get those neat looking plots.
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > Walter
> >
> >
> >
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 22:08:24 +0100
> From: MikeSuesserott@xxxxxxxxxxx (MikeSuesserott)
> Subject: AW: math and 3D plots
> 
> Lionel,
> 
> I gave you a wrong web site that has more to do with Java. Here is a better
> url for a first evaluation of Mathematica:
> http://library.wolfram.com/examples/
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Michael Suesserott
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:43:29 -0500
> From: "W Lake" <wlake@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: math and 3D plots
> 
> Hi Lionel
> 
> I told you that you that I was bad at Math. <G>
> 
> Would love to have a copy of Mathematica ... but ... as always ... it's the
> PRICE .
> 
> There's been a few postings on the Excel-L list re the following formula and
> how to plot it in Excel.
> 
> Plot 3D - Surface z = f(x, y)
> 
> Of course the Math guys could come up with lots of examples that apply to
> Metastock and trading. So maybe we should start there. What's it mean,
> what's an algebraic expression meant to convey, etc.
> 
> You and I can use Derive and Michael can use Mathematica. Since the markets
> are headed downward for the next few (fill in your favourite time frame)
> anyway ... we should probably occupy our time with uplifting things <G>
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Walter
> 
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lionel Issen <lissen@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 2:23 PM
> Subject: Re: math and 3D plots
> 
> > Walter:
> >
> > I may have misunderstood your posting.
> >
> > Arithmetic is math, so is geometry, algebra in all its varieties, chaos
> > theory, statistics and ad infinitum.
> > Metastock uses algebra, the simple kind that's taught in grade and high
> > school, its mostly symbolic arithmetic.
> >
> > Excel is much more than arithmetic, it's just that we use the simple
> > capabilities the most.
> >
> > Two variables require only a 2 D space to plot, not 3 D. You can plot 2
> > variables in a 3 D space, but all the results will lie on a plane.
> >
> > I agree with you, simpler is better, just as long as it isn't
> simple-minded.
> >
> > Thanks again for telling me about Derive.
> >
> > Aside from this, since you like simplicity in analysis: the Eiffel Tower
> was
> > designed/analyzed using graphical methods, no arithmetic or algebraic
> > analysis were used; the arch in St. Louis was designed/analyzed using
> slide
> > rules.  Both these structures are fairly complicated.
> >
> > I don't want to start a new thread. Please e-mail me direct.
> >
> > Lionel Issen
> > lissen@xxxxxxxxx
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "W Lake" <wlake@xxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 8:27 AM
> > Subject: math and 3D plots
> >
> >
> > > Thanks for your emails
> > >
> > > What you are talking about is the confusion between Math and Arithmetic.
> > >
> > > Most of the stuff in Metastock and Excel is Arithmetic, i.e., the
> > > calculations and algorithms. The hard stuff is usually the "Math".
> > >
> > > Personally, I stick with the easier Arithmetic and only get dragged into
> > > Math kicking and screaming. There are some very good Math people on the
> > list
> > > who love the stuff and could easily explain the difference between
> > > Arithmetic and Math as it relates to Metastock and Excel.
> > >
> > > You need a 3D plot to handle equations that have two variables. The
> points
> > > of the array are plotted in 3d space and joined by straight line
> segments.
> > > That's why you get the wired grid look with the cute bright colours.
> > >
> > > I like Derive because it's got all those easy to use buttons right on
> the
> > > algebra window so now I can quickly punch in all of Simons' expressions
> > and
> > > get those neat looking plots.
> > >
> > > Best regards
> > >
> > > Walter
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:17:15 -0600
> From: "BL" <blee7@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: math and 3D plots
> 
> Here's a very cheap excellant 3D math tool.  I believe it's about $10. See
> examples at http://www.mi.sanu.ac.yu/vismath/parker/gr1.htm.
> 
> HiTech Analytics, LLC
> Brian K. Lee
> www.hitech-analytics.com
> 
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "W Lake" <wlake@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 4:43 PM
> Subject: Re: math and 3D plots
> 
> > Hi Lionel
> >
> > I told you that you that I was bad at Math. <G>
> >
> > Would love to have a copy of Mathematica ... but ... as always ... it's
> the
> > PRICE .
> >
> > There's been a few postings on the Excel-L list re the following formula
> and
> > how to plot it in Excel.
> >
> > Plot 3D - Surface z = f(x, y)
> >
> > Of course the Math guys could come up with lots of examples that apply to
> > Metastock and trading. So maybe we should start there. What's it mean,
> > what's an algebraic expression meant to convey, etc.
> >
> > You and I can use Derive and Michael can use Mathematica. Since the
> markets
> > are headed downward for the next few (fill in your favourite time frame)
> > anyway ... we should probably occupy our time with uplifting things <G>
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > Walter
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Lionel Issen <lissen@xxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 2:23 PM
> > Subject: Re: math and 3D plots
> >
> >
> > > Walter:
> > >
> > > I may have misunderstood your posting.
> > >
> > > Arithmetic is math, so is geometry, algebra in all its varieties, chaos
> > > theory, statistics and ad infinitum.
> > > Metastock uses algebra, the simple kind that's taught in grade and high
> > > school, its mostly symbolic arithmetic.
> > >
> > > Excel is much more than arithmetic, it's just that we use the simple
> > > capabilities the most.
> > >
> > > Two variables require only a 2 D space to plot, not 3 D. You can plot 2
> > > variables in a 3 D space, but all the results will lie on a plane.
> > >
> > > I agree with you, simpler is better, just as long as it isn't
> > simple-minded.
> > >
> > > Thanks again for telling me about Derive.
> > >
> > > Aside from this, since you like simplicity in analysis: the Eiffel Tower
> > was
> > > designed/analyzed using graphical methods, no arithmetic or algebraic
> > > analysis were used; the arch in St. Louis was designed/analyzed using
> > slide
> > > rules.  Both these structures are fairly complicated.
> > >
> > > I don't want to start a new thread. Please e-mail me direct.
> > >
> > > Lionel Issen
> > > lissen@xxxxxxxxx
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "W Lake" <wlake@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 8:27 AM
> > > Subject: math and 3D plots
> > >
> > >
> > > > Thanks for your emails
> > > >
> > > > What you are talking about is the confusion between Math and
> Arithmetic.
> > > >
> > > > Most of the stuff in Metastock and Excel is Arithmetic, i.e., the
> > > > calculations and algorithms. The hard stuff is usually the "Math".
> > > >
> > > > Personally, I stick with the easier Arithmetic and only get dragged
> into
> > > > Math kicking and screaming. There are some very good Math people on
> the
> > > list
> > > > who love the stuff and could easily explain the difference between
> > > > Arithmetic and Math as it relates to Metastock and Excel.
> > > >
> > > > You need a 3D plot to handle equations that have two variables. The
> > points
> > > > of the array are plotted in 3d space and joined by straight line
> > segments.
> > > > That's why you get the wired grid look with the cute bright colours.
> > > >
> > > > I like Derive because it's got all those easy to use buttons right on
> > the
> > > > algebra window so now I can quickly punch in all of Simons'
> expressions
> > > and
> > > > get those neat looking plots.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards
> > > >
> > > > Walter
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 18:23:18 EST
> From: CRLeBeau@xxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> 
> - --part1_82.8413b43.27e3fa66_boundary
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> In a message dated 3/15/01 1:39:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, neo1@xxxxxxxxx
> writes:
> 
> > I wonder if people could comment on profit stops. It seems that I buy
> > stocks, the price increases, and then they fall down and I lose most of my
> > profits. Is it best to stick with a trailing stop or should a certain profit
> > % be used to take profits? What profit stop should be used?
> >
> >
> 
> Neo,  I like to use stops and profit objectives that are measured in units of
> Average True Range.  The ATR contracts and expands with volatility so you can
> use the same formula for a very quiet stock or for a highly volatile stock.
> I have written several educational Bulletins about this topic that can be
> found at http://www.traderclub.com/discus/board.html
> 
> These Bulletins are free so hope you don't think I'm spamming. Just trying to
> be helpful.
> 
> Chuck LeBeau
> 
> - --part1_82.8413b43.27e3fa66_boundary
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 3/15/01 1:39:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, neo1@xxxxxxxxx
> <BR>writes:
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I wonder if people could comment on profit stops. It seems that I buy
> <BR>stocks, the price increases, and then they fall down and I lose most of my
> <BR>profits. Is it best to stick with a trailing stop or should a certain profit
> <BR>% be used to take profits? What profit stop should be used?
> <BR>
> <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
> <BR>
> <BR>Neo, &nbsp;I like to use stops and profit objectives that are measured in units of
> <BR>Average True Range. &nbsp;The ATR contracts and expands with volatility so you can
> <BR>use the same formula for a very quiet stock or for a highly volatile stock. &nbsp;
> <BR>I have written several educational Bulletins about this topic that can be
> <BR>found at http://www.traderclub.com/discus/board.html
> <BR>
> <BR>These Bulletins are free so hope you don't think I'm spamming. Just trying to
> <BR>be helpful.
> <BR>
> <BR>Chuck LeBeau</FONT></HTML>
> 
> - --part1_82.8413b43.27e3fa66_boundary--
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 19:31:30 -0500
> From: "Joe Duffy" <joeduffy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> 
> Taking it a step further and using a little imagination we spoke about
> earlier... lets say we take a 12 poeriod CMO with parameters at +50 and -50
> for instance as potential profit taking areas. Doesn't mean you have to take
> it right away. Might mean that you trail a tight stop using that days
> high/low or you wait for a divergence in a still shorter term oscillator, or
> perhaps some combo of things like this....
> 
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Neal Hughes
> > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 9:12 PM
> > To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: RE: Profit Stops
> >
> >
> >
> > Peter,
> >
> > When I started with Fibs, I read just about everything..
> >
> > There is a ton of intellectually interesting, entertaining,
> > poetic, mystical, stuff about Fibonacci.. Some of it
> > is so complex and theoretical there is no way to
> > figure out how to apply it in the markets.. Some of the
> > material seems as though it is written to intentionally
> > mystify! Some of it works some of the time but only
> > just enough to keep you interested..
> >
> > I eventually settled for Joe DiNapoli's techniques, see
> > http://www.fibtrader.com  because they are
> > practical and make sense to me. Joe discards all the
> > confusing aspects, and presents a solid trading plan.
> >
> > When I was newer to that stuff, I wrote a review on DiNapoli's
> > book, you'll find it on the above website somewhere.
> >
> > I've since become a biased fan of these techniques,
> > and I present seminars on DiNapoli techniques. These
> > may not be the only Fib techniques that work, but they
> > are my preference.
> >
> > I'm totally against trailing stops, for many reasons.
> > I'm usually entering the market exactly where those
> > with trailing stops are exiting. So they take the other
> > side of my trade.. Trailing stops generate horrible
> > slippage, and often get you out of the market at
> > the worst time..
> >
> > -Neal.
> >
> >
> >
> > At 05:52 PM 3/15/2001 -0500, Peter Gialames wrote:
> > >Do you have any good resouces on learning these Fib techniques?  I have
> > >always been intrigued by them, but never learned how to use them.
> > >
> > >Peter Gialames
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >[mailto:owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Neal Hughes
> > >Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 4:22 PM
> > >To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Fibonacci techniques are excellent for this.
> > >
> > >The idea is to calculate  a profit objective so
> > >you exit before a pullback..
> > >
> > >-Neal.
> > >
> > >
> > >At 03:08 PM 3/15/2001 -0500, you wrote:
> > > >I wonder if people could comment on profit stops. It seems that I buy
> > > >stocks, the price increases, and then they fall down and I lose most of
> > my
> > > >profits. Is it best to stick with a trailing stop or should a certain
> > >profit
> > > >% be used to take profits? What profit stop should be used?
> > > >
> > > >neo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 19:54:29 -0500
> From: "W Lake" <wlake@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: math and 3D plots
> 
> http://www.davidparker.com/licensed.html
> 
> Good thing that I went to Cedarville University <G>
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Walter
> 
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: BL <blee7@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 6:17 PM
> Subject: Re: math and 3D plots
> 
> > Here's a very cheap excellant 3D math tool.  I believe it's about $10. See
> > examples at http://www.mi.sanu.ac.yu/vismath/parker/gr1.htm.
> >
> > HiTech Analytics, LLC
> > Brian K. Lee
> > www.hitech-analytics.com
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "W Lake" <wlake@xxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 4:43 PM
> > Subject: Re: math and 3D plots
> >
> >
> > > Hi Lionel
> > >
> > > I told you that you that I was bad at Math. <G>
> > >
> > > Would love to have a copy of Mathematica ... but ... as always ... it's
> > the
> > > PRICE .
> > >
> > > There's been a few postings on the Excel-L list re the following formula
> > and
> > > how to plot it in Excel.
> > >
> > > Plot 3D - Surface z = f(x, y)
> > >
> > > Of course the Math guys could come up with lots of examples that apply
> to
> > > Metastock and trading. So maybe we should start there. What's it mean,
> > > what's an algebraic expression meant to convey, etc.
> > >
> > > You and I can use Derive and Michael can use Mathematica. Since the
> > markets
> > > are headed downward for the next few (fill in your favourite time frame)
> > > anyway ... we should probably occupy our time with uplifting things <G>
> > >
> > > Best regards
> > >
> > > Walter
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Lionel Issen <lissen@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 2:23 PM
> > > Subject: Re: math and 3D plots
> > >
> > >
> > > > Walter:
> > > >
> > > > I may have misunderstood your posting.
> > > >
> > > > Arithmetic is math, so is geometry, algebra in all its varieties,
> chaos
> > > > theory, statistics and ad infinitum.
> > > > Metastock uses algebra, the simple kind that's taught in grade and
> high
> > > > school, its mostly symbolic arithmetic.
> > > >
> > > > Excel is much more than arithmetic, it's just that we use the simple
> > > > capabilities the most.
> > > >
> > > > Two variables require only a 2 D space to plot, not 3 D. You can plot
> 2
> > > > variables in a 3 D space, but all the results will lie on a plane.
> > > >
> > > > I agree with you, simpler is better, just as long as it isn't
> > > simple-minded.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks again for telling me about Derive.
> > > >
> > > > Aside from this, since you like simplicity in analysis: the Eiffel
> Tower
> > > was
> > > > designed/analyzed using graphical methods, no arithmetic or algebraic
> > > > analysis were used; the arch in St. Louis was designed/analyzed using
> > > slide
> > > > rules.  Both these structures are fairly complicated.
> > > >
> > > > I don't want to start a new thread. Please e-mail me direct.
> > > >
> > > > Lionel Issen
> > > > lissen@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "W Lake" <wlake@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > > To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 8:27 AM
> > > > Subject: math and 3D plots
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Thanks for your emails
> > > > >
> > > > > What you are talking about is the confusion between Math and
> > Arithmetic.
> > > > >
> > > > > Most of the stuff in Metastock and Excel is Arithmetic, i.e., the
> > > > > calculations and algorithms. The hard stuff is usually the "Math".
> > > > >
> > > > > Personally, I stick with the easier Arithmetic and only get dragged
> > into
> > > > > Math kicking and screaming. There are some very good Math people on
> > the
> > > > list
> > > > > who love the stuff and could easily explain the difference between
> > > > > Arithmetic and Math as it relates to Metastock and Excel.
> > > > >
> > > > > You need a 3D plot to handle equations that have two variables. The
> > > points
> > > > > of the array are plotted in 3d space and joined by straight line
> > > segments.
> > > > > That's why you get the wired grid look with the cute bright colours.
> > > > >
> > > > > I like Derive because it's got all those easy to use buttons right
> on
> > > the
> > > > > algebra window so now I can quickly punch in all of Simons'
> > expressions
> > > > and
> > > > > get those neat looking plots.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards
> > > > >
> > > > > Walter
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 11:10:47 -0500
> From: "neo" <neo1@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: RE: Profit Stops
> 
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> 
> - ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C0AED2.EAF58CE0
> Content-Type: text/plain;
>         charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> Chuck
> 
> I have read your ATR bulletins and they are excellent. I do not trade in
> real time so I use 2 trailing stops. The first is based on the close of the
> day and is lower. I have been using a % drop that varies with the
> volatility. I probably need to study ATR more carefully.
> 
> The second trailing stop I use is a stop order. This is higher and stops me
> out on a large intraday low. Because this is really triggered by the low of
> the day I wonder if ATR is less useful here. It seems that perhaps it should
> be based on a % below the lowest low (for longs) since the stock was bought
> and adjusted for upward movement.
> 
> Any thoughts on this?
> 
> neo
> 
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of CRLeBeau@xxxxxxx
>   Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 6:23 PM
>   To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>   Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> 
>   In a message dated 3/15/01 1:39:50 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> neo1@xxxxxxxxx
>   writes:
> 
>     I wonder if people could comment on profit stops. It seems that I buy
>     stocks, the price increases, and then they fall down and I lose most of
> my
>     profits. Is it best to stick with a trailing stop or should a certain
> profit
>     % be used to take profits? What profit stop should be used?
> 
>   Neo,  I like to use stops and profit objectives that are measured in units
> of
>   Average True Range.  The ATR contracts and expands with volatility so you
> can
>   use the same formula for a very quiet stock or for a highly volatile
> stock.
>   I have written several educational Bulletins about this topic that can be
>   found at http://www.traderclub.com/discus/board.html
> 
>   These Bulletins are free so hope you don't think I'm spamming. Just trying
> to
>   be helpful.
> 
>   Chuck LeBeau
> 
> - ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C0AED2.EAF58CE0
> Content-Type: text/html;
>         charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> 
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <HTML><HEAD>
> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
> charset=3Diso-8859-1">
> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
> <BODY>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D840570316-17032001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#008080 =
> 
> size=3D4>Chuck</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D840570316-17032001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#008080 =
> 
> size=3D4></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D840570316-17032001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#008080 =
> size=3D4>I have=20
> read your ATR bulletins and they are excellent. I do not trade in real =
> time so I=20
> use 2 trailing stops. The first is based on the close of the day and is =
> lower. I=20
> have been using a % drop that varies with the volatility. I probably =
> need to=20
> study ATR more carefully.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D840570316-17032001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#008080 =
> 
> size=3D4></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D840570316-17032001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#008080 =
> size=3D4>The=20
> second trailing stop I use is a stop order. This is higher and stops me =
> out on a=20
> large intraday low. Because this is really triggered by the low of the =
> day I=20
> wonder if ATR is less useful here. It seems that perhaps it should be =
> based on a=20
> % below the lowest low (for longs) since the stock was bought and =
> adjusted for=20
> upward movement.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D840570316-17032001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#008080 =
> 
> size=3D4></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D840570316-17032001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#008080 =
> size=3D4>Any=20
> thoughts on this?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D840570316-17032001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#008080 =
> 
> size=3D4></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D840570316-17032001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#008080 =
> 
> size=3D4>neo</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D840570316-17032001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#008080 =
> 
> size=3D4></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <BLOCKQUOTE>
>   <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
> face=3DTahoma=20
>   size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
>   owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx =
> [mailto:owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]<B>On=20
>   Behalf Of </B>CRLeBeau@xxxxxxx<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 16, 2001 =
> 6:23=20
>   PM<BR><B>To:</B> metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Profit =
> 
>   Stops<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT =
> size=3D2>In a message=20
>   dated 3/15/01 1:39:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, neo1@xxxxxxxxx =
> <BR>writes:=20
>   <BR><BR><BR>
>   <BLOCKQUOTE=20
>   style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
> solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
>   TYPE=3D"CITE">I wonder if people could comment on profit stops. It =
> seems that=20
>     I buy <BR>stocks, the price increases, and then they fall down and I =
> lose=20
>     most of my <BR>profits. Is it best to stick with a trailing stop or =
> should a=20
>     certain profit <BR>% be used to take profits? What profit stop =
> should be=20
>     used? <BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Neo, &nbsp;I like to use stops =
> and profit=20
>   objectives that are measured in units of <BR>Average True Range. =
> &nbsp;The ATR=20
>   contracts and expands with volatility so you can <BR>use the same =
> formula for=20
>   a very quiet stock or for a highly volatile stock. &nbsp; <BR>I have =
> written=20
>   several educational Bulletins about this topic that can be <BR>found =
> at=20
>   http://www.traderclub.com/discus/board.html <BR><BR>These Bulletins =
> are free=20
>   so hope you don't think I'm spamming. Just trying to <BR>be helpful.=20
>   <BR><BR>Chuck LeBeau</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
> 
> - ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C0AED2.EAF58CE0--
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 18:05:07 EST
> From: CRLeBeau@xxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Profit Stops
> 
> - --part1_1e.12c682ca.27e547a3_boundary
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> In a message dated 3/17/01 9:13:57 AM Pacific Standard Time, neo1@xxxxxxxxx
> writes:
> 
> > Any thoughts on this?
> >
> >
> 
> I like to move my stops closer as the profits get larger.  This allows me to
> have fairly wide stops at the beginning of a trade  (the wide stops at the
> beginning of a trade give a higher winning percentage) and then I try to
> maximize the size of my winning trades by moving the trailing stops closer so
> I give back less of the open profit.  This strategy is for trend following
> type trades.
> 
> For counter-trend trades I just use a profit target and when I see the profit
> I take it.  I have found that counter trend trades generally tend to produce
> profits in the neighborhood of 1.5 to 2.0 ATRs.  For trend-following trades I
> try to tighten up my stops after 4 ATRs of profit and then hope for more.
> 
> I'm leaving for New Zealand this weekend to do a TraderCamp in Vanuatu with
> Dr. Elder so I probably won't be able to answer any e-mail messages while I
> am out of the country.  I'll be back in the office in April.
> 
> Chuck LeBeau
> www.traderclub.com
> 
> - --part1_1e.12c682ca.27e547a3_boundary
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 3/17/01 9:13:57 AM Pacific Standard Time, neo1@xxxxxxxxx
> <BR>writes:
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#008080" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Any thoughts on this?</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
> <BR>
> <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
> <BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
> <BR>I like to move my stops closer as the profits get larger. &nbsp;This allows me to
> <BR>have fairly wide stops at the beginning of a trade &nbsp;(the wide stops at the
> <BR>beginning of a trade give a higher winning percentage) and then I try to
> <BR>maximize the size of my winning trades by moving the trailing stops closer so
> <BR>I give back less of the open profit. &nbsp;This strategy is for trend following
> <BR>type trades. &nbsp;
> <BR>
> <BR>For counter-trend trades I just use a profit target and when I see the profit
> <BR>I take it. &nbsp;I have found that counter trend trades generally tend to produce
> <BR>profits in the neighborhood of 1.5 to 2.0 ATRs. &nbsp;For trend-following trades I
> <BR>try to tighten up my stops after 4 ATRs of profit and then hope for more.
> <BR>
> <BR>I'm leaving for New Zealand this weekend to do a TraderCamp in Vanuatu with
> <BR>Dr. Elder so I probably won't be able to answer any e-mail messages while I
> <BR>am out of the country. &nbsp;I'll be back in the office in April.
> <BR>
> <BR>Chuck LeBeau
> <BR>www.traderclub.com</FONT></HTML>
> 
> - --part1_1e.12c682ca.27e547a3_boundary--
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of metastock-digest V1 #1292
> ********************************