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<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>At <A
href="http://stockcentral.com.au";>stockcentral.com.au </A> you will find an
interesting site where to find dicussions on trading techniques applied to
Metatsock & other software, formulas for developing your customized
explorations & indicators as well as a forum, divided in several
sections, where specific issues can be profitably discussed by traders at
various level of experience. It may interest you to know that trader &
author Daryl Guppy is the resident technician. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>Cheers</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>Giacinto</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>From: "Malcolm Scott" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:malcolm.scott@xxxxxxxxx";><FONT face=Verdana
size=2>malcolm.scott@xxxxxxxxx</FONT></A><FONT face=Verdana
size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>To: <</FONT><A
href="mailto:metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";><FONT face=Verdana
size=2>metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx</FONT></A><FONT face=Verdana
size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>Sent: 01 June, 2000 07:51</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>Subject: Re: Exploration
Formulas</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>> You just want to ask for an MA
higher than yesterday, or higher than last<BR>> week. So e.g.
"mov(c,20,s)>ref(mov(c,20,s),-1)" or<BR>>
"mov(c,20,s)>ref(mov(c,20,s),-7)"<BR>> Mal<BR>> <BR>> ----- Original
Message -----<BR>> From: "Michael Dempsey" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:m.dempsey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";><FONT face=Verdana
size=2>m.dempsey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</FONT></A><FONT face=Verdana
size=2>><BR>> To: <</FONT><A
href="mailto:metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";><FONT face=Verdana
size=2>metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</FONT></A><FONT face=Verdana
size=2>><BR>> Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 10:53 PM<BR>> Subject:
Exploration Formulas<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> > Hi All,<BR>> ><BR>>
> I am trying to learn how to right explorations is MetaStock, and it
is<BR>> > proving quite a challenge.<BR>> ><BR>> > I need help
in trying to get the exploration to find stocks with a rising<BR>> >
moving average. How do I tell the machine to " find rising (moving
average<BR>> > fml)".<BR>> > It does not matter if the MA is above
or below the MA.<BR>> ><BR>> > Thanks in advance<BR>> >
Michael Dempsey<BR>> > </FONT><A
href="mailto:mdempsey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";><FONT face=Verdana
size=2>mdempsey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</FONT></A><FONT face=Verdana
size=2> or<BR>> > </FONT><A
href="mailto:dempsey1@xxxxxxxxxx";><FONT face=Verdana
size=2>dempsey1@xxxxxxxxxx</FONT></A><FONT face=Verdana
size=2>
if the top one does not work.<BR>> ><BR>> <BR>>
</FONT></BODY></HTML>
</x-html>From ???@??? Thu Jun 01 07:59:02 2000
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From: "Giacinto" <giacifin@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Exploration Formulas
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 20:56:01 +0800
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<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
Giacinto
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";
title=metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> 01 June, 2000 08:41</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Exploration Formulas</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>Hi, Michael,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>At <A
href="http://stockcentral.com.au";>stockcentral.com.au </A> you will find
an interesting site where to find dicussions on trading techniques applied to
Metatsock & other software, formulas for developing your customized
explorations & indicators as well as a forum, divided in several
sections, where specific issues can be profitably discussed by traders at
various level of experience. It may interest you to know that trader
& author Daryl Guppy is the resident technician. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>Sorry, in my previous message I forgot to add
that for your specific question re: exploration formulas, I suggest you
try the following sections:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2> - Techniques & Trading
Systems</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2> - Beginner's Heaven
(which personally I find it to be amongst the most </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>
interesting &</FONT><FONT face=Verdana size=2> varied
sections)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2> - Software</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>Have fun in Australia</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>Giacinto</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>From: "Malcolm Scott" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:malcolm.scott@xxxxxxxxx";><FONT face=Verdana
size=2>malcolm.scott@xxxxxxxxx</FONT></A><FONT face=Verdana
size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>To: <</FONT><A
href="mailto:metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";><FONT face=Verdana
size=2>metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx</FONT></A><FONT face=Verdana
size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>Sent: 01 June, 2000 07:51</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>Subject: Re: Exploration
Formulas</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>> You just want to ask for an MA
higher than yesterday, or higher than last<BR>> week. So e.g.
"mov(c,20,s)>ref(mov(c,20,s),-1)" or<BR>>
"mov(c,20,s)>ref(mov(c,20,s),-7)"<BR>> Mal<BR>> <BR>> -----
Original Message -----<BR>> From: "Michael Dempsey" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:m.dempsey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";><FONT face=Verdana
size=2>m.dempsey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</FONT></A><FONT face=Verdana
size=2>><BR>> To: <</FONT><A
href="mailto:metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";><FONT face=Verdana
size=2>metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</FONT></A><FONT face=Verdana
size=2>><BR>> Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 10:53 PM<BR>> Subject:
Exploration Formulas<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> > Hi All,<BR>>
><BR>> > I am trying to learn how to right explorations is MetaStock,
and it is<BR>> > proving quite a challenge.<BR>> ><BR>> > I
need help in trying to get the exploration to find stocks with a
rising<BR>> > moving average. How do I tell the machine to " find rising
(moving average<BR>> > fml)".<BR>> > It does not matter if the MA
is above or below the MA.<BR>> ><BR>> > Thanks in advance<BR>>
> Michael Dempsey<BR>> > </FONT><A
href="mailto:mdempsey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";><FONT face=Verdana
size=2>mdempsey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</FONT></A><FONT face=Verdana
size=2> or<BR>> > </FONT><A
href="mailto:dempsey1@xxxxxxxxxx";><FONT face=Verdana
size=2>dempsey1@xxxxxxxxxx</FONT></A><FONT face=Verdana
size=2>
if the top one does not work.<BR>> ><BR>> <BR>>
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
</x-html>From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 06:29:10 2000
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Message-ID: <000b01bfcc11$b62128c0$7301010a@xxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Nicolas Leupold" <leupold@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
References: <NBBBKFMIMHJOLMGOIJGNOELFEKAA.grt@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Money Management
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 10:29:07 -0300
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Status:
Guy and List Members,
Your technical effort in developing the system has been enormous. Being an
engineer myself tempts me to research in that field too.
Yet, you emphasize the importance of money management a lot. That is
certainly something often neglected by trading knowledge. And your
experience certainly proves that importance.
Do you happen to have your resources at hand to share? The Kepler site has
been checked already and proved interesting indeed.
Thanks and kind regards,
Nicolas Leupold
leupold@xxxxxxxxxx
Buenos Aires, Argentina
----- Original Message -----
From: Guy Tann <grt@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: 01 June 2000 06:08
Subject: RE: [OT] WARNING
> Kent,
>
> Thanks for the reasoned reply. I was probably cranky, but I don't like
> being accused of lying and probably overreacted.
>
> Now I should address a few of your points.
>
> First, we've been talking about a newsletter or some such vehicle for a
> couple of years (between my brother, my dad and myself). You can see just
> how fast we've moved on it. :) Second, I was the one who wanted to do
it,
> since I felt that it would accelerate our capital accumulation. My
original
> thought was to set up a fund, where we charged a % of the profits as a fee
> (no profits, no fees, period!). Somehow my brother got involved in
sending
> out that little family note to our relatives and a few friends. On one of
> his last couple of trips to the Orient, he was approached by a couple of
> clients and suppliers to provide them with our recommendations and he
> refused to do that.
>
> Maybe I should explain a little about our background so that you will
> understand where we're coming from.
>
> My dad was the President and CEO of a fairly large family business with
> 2,000 employees or so (I think). We owned the largest independent Tool &
> Die company in the State of Michigan with over 250 Tool & Die Makers
> (Congress Tool & Die). Our larger manufacturing division (Congress Die
> Casting) was a major supplier to Chrysler, General Motors and Ford and our
> Congress Drives Division was the largest manufacturer of pulleys in the US
> (sold at Sears and supplied to other companies like Whirlpool). In
> addition, we developed a product call Permawick (or Fluidwick) that
replaced
> all the felts used to lubricate fractional horsepower electric motors.
This
> product was a major improvement and is the reason today that you don't
have
> to oil most electric motors manufactured in the world. With a little
> research, this can all be verified, but again I really don't care since I
> lived it.
>
> Our father was pressed into the family business when our grandfather had a
> stroke. He had to leave the University of Michigan (they mailed him his
> Diploma) to take over the business. He never wanted to go into the
> business, but it was the Depression and he didn't have much choice with 5
> brothers, a sister and an ill father at home (with our grandmother). I
have
> lots of tales about our grandfather, but lets just say he partied too much
> (primarily with Henry Ford) and had a stroke before he was 60 years old.
It
> turns out this was caused by a genetic defect that caused the premature
> demise of several members of our family, but that's another story.
Anyway,
> dad was always interested in futures and preferred them to the
manufacturing
> business and that's how my brother and I both got started with futures as
> well. The family sold the businesses in the mid-50s (to ACME Precision, I
> believe with Permawick going to Marty Abel) and retired. He's been
retired
> for the last 45 years doing nothing but working on commodity systems.
>
> Now my younger brother has had a long, successful career in the
> semiconductor industry and has been involved with a couple of start-ups,
the
> last one sold to Lucent. He still advises start-ups and has set up a rep
> business marketing semiconductors. I think I posted that he was in Taiwan
a
> month or so ago. What I didn't say was that he was there with someone
from
> Palm checking out the manufacturing facilities. Subsequently, he signed
> Palm as a major account (I think they buy $20mm a month, but I really
don't
> remember). He should make a bundle from his rep business. This is why he
> refused to even consider getting involved in providing trading advice to
his
> customers in the Far East. You don't bite the hand that feeds you.
>
> I have been involved with computers since graduation from college in 1961.
> A stint with IBM, consulting with a Big '6' firm and CIO of a major ad
> agency sort of rounded out my background. Since I was involved with
> computers early on, we've used computers in developing our futures systems
> beginning in 1961 (main frames) and we moved to minis and then to
> microcomputers in the old CP/M days. We were several years ahead of Wall
> Street with regards to using computer for research. I retired about 8
years
> ago and do some consulting whenever the desire strikes me. I'm currently
> CTO of a new Internet startup, but have decided to quit since it
interferes
> with my Mr. Mom duties. The real reason is because I sort of question
> whether the huge block of stock is worth the time and effort, with the
> NASDAQ collapsing. I may wait a month but I've fairly made up my mind,
even
> though I basically work from home and only go in 2 mornings a week.
>
> Now our dad doesn't trade anymore, since he's more interested in the
> calculations and developing new systems. At 91, he doesn't feel the need
to
> take the risks. My brother and I do all of our trading in addition to
> working on the systems.
>
> I guess what I'm trying to say, is that we have been fairly successful
> without trading futures and that is why we have been able to recover
> financially from our 40+ years of poor money management. We've always
been
> able to finance our own reentry into the game. We have fairly substantial
> incomes without trading futures. We're not rich, but we're comfortable.
>
> Now as I said earlier, I brought up the possibility of setting up a fund
> several years ago, since that would enable us to shortcut saving the
capital
> ourselves. I probably came up with that idea after a big loss. :) Since
> then, the application of money management has really eliminated any need
to
> follow up with it. My friend, John Bollinger, is the one who talked me
out
> of moving ahead with the fund approach (John lives a couple of blocks away
> and his daughter and my son went to preschool together) and runs a fund
> himself.
>
> Since then, we started thinking about a newsletter, but as you can see
from
> the speed with which we move, nothing has happened here either, and
there's
> no urgency.
>
> Your point about a futures trading account is quite correct. My logic in
> setting up a fund was to enable us to raise the equivalent of $500k rather
> than saving it ourselves. Since we're now well beyond that number, any
> requirement has been eliminated. The only thing left is EGO. At our
> current pace, we're still planning on setting up a web site but who know
how
> long this will take since it's not a high priority. Once that's done, my
> thought is to provide the service via an Internet newsletter for free for
a
> period of time while we get a feel for what's involved in running an
> Internet newsletter. At that point, we'll have to determine whether we
want
> to continue and what to charge. If there's no demand, the site will
quietly
> go away. We might just give it to our kids and let them run it.
>
> We have over 400,000 man-hours invested in developing our trading system
and
> thousands of hours of computer time over the last 40 years. We have also
> been around for a long time, and have never seen a profitable system
> publicized. Either the system quit working (Williams and his Silver
System
> comes to mind) or it died slowly over the next 6 months (my paranoia can
> suggests possible reasons for this). And finally, we have to address the
> big question. If the system is so good, why sell it? That's exactly the
> question that keeps coming up in our own conversations and that's exactly
> the reason why we've been so slow moving in the direction of a web site or
> Internet newsletter or a fund. Will any of them happen, I really can't
say.
> If we keep making these trades, we might never go public.
>
>
> Guy
>
> Paranoia...you only have to be right once to make it all worthwhile!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:owner-metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
> Behalf Of Kent Rollins
> Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 9:13 PM
> To: metastock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [OT] WARNING
>
> I think Mark was just trying to provide a warning for those who might not
be
> aware that one might be needed. I'm not saying one is needed *in this
> case*, I take Guy at his word. I've been following him for about a year
now
> and I've seen him go thru learning money management and repeatedly admit
> that he's busted his trading account many times. I feel that Guy has been
> very consistent in the time that I've been reading his posts and take him
> for who he says he is. Guy, if you are chumming the waters, my hat is off
> to you because it has been a masterfully convincing job over the months.
:)
>
> I am assuming that this list is like the Omega list in that it is like and
> iceberg: 90% of the people on the list lurk and never post. JimO who runs
> the Omega list says there are over 1000 people subscribed and there are
only
> about 20-30 people who post regularly. The others are the masses of
people
> who blow out their accounts in a few months' time. They come and go and
no
> one ever knows they were here. And in an industry where every single
player
> HAS TO HAVE a large, liquid, easily accessible pile of cash. If you have
a
> $100,000 account, that is considered small in the trading business. Think
> about that. $100,000 is not a lot of trading capital. If you say to the
> average Joe on the street, "My trading account is ONLY $100K.", they would
> look at you like you were nuts. Say that to a fellow trader and they'll
say
> "Yeah, I know what you mean."
>
> In the Gold Rush in the the 1800's, it was the people who sold the "picks
> and shovels" who made the easy money with no risk. Some of them were
honest
> pick and shovel vendors, some weren't. Here, the pick and shovel vendors
> are the Equis', Omega's, Motley Fools', Quote.com's, and "trading signal"
> vendors. I pay about $550 a month for 2 realtime datafeeds. The only
bill
> I pay that is more than that is on my mortgage. I paid Omega $200 a month
> for a year to buy their software. If you're a scammer out there looking
to
> skim a few bucks with a bogus con, there are hundreds of new people
trading
> each month, replacing the hundreds who blew out last month, and the fresh
> meat hasn't learned that there isn't a holy grail. If you can show them
The
> Way, they will gladly pay you $50 a month until they blow out or figure
out
> you're a scammer or get disgusted with your lousy advice. I fell for the
> Omega commercials: "All you need is a trading signal."
>
> Mark's warning was harsh. But it got attention. If you knew that you
> shouldn't believe that Guy can make you 50% a year, then you've been
around
> long enough to know the way things work. There are a lot of people who
> haven't been around that long and won't be around long enough to learn
that
> lesson. And I believe they are the ones who Mark intended the message
for.
> I have been on the Omega list for almost 2 years now and I have come to
> respect Mark's opinions. He claims to have been in the business for over
20
> years and I take him, like I take Guy, at his word. I have seen Mark take
> on seemingly the whole Omega list at times, and I have seen some extremely
> kind and generous things said about him. Some of Mark's posts concern
some
> of those esoteric things that only veterans in an industry ever realize,
> much less verbalize. The warning was on one of the more concrete things
in
> trading.
>
> When people on this list complain that Guy and Jim talk about too much
> personal stuff, you know the 2 of them are comfortable on this list. I'm
> comfortable on this list, also. And I think it is in that spirit of
comfort
> that Guy discusses potential returns of his system. Guy also comfortably
> discusses the fact that he might start a website where people could
> subscribe and get the signals from his system. The fresh meat, the ones
who
> never post and won't be here much longer might take those 2 pieces of
> information and stumble across a website like the one I recently got
spammed
> for and say "Well, here's another Guy Tann. I have a $100,000 futures
> account and he can make me 50% a year and he only wants $250 a month and I
> will only have to place trades based on EOD data so I can drop my 2
realtime
> datafeeds and save $300 a month." A few months later, they have a $5,000
> futures account. That story is being played out by hundreds of people
> across the country right now and they don't even know it. Some of them
> won't even know it after they've gotten the margin call.
>
> Guy, if you're the kind of guy I think you are, you don't want to mislead
> people. You've said that you want to start a website for subscribers. If
> you do, you will have to post certain disclaimers. Why not start now? It
> could be as simple as inserting something like "unaudited" everytime you
> quote your system's accuracy or you could write up a simple disclaimer for
> your sig. Are you legally obligated? Maybe not. Morally?
>
> And since I took the time to write all this crap, I'm going to ask the
> question that everyone should ask when they flip thru the ads in Futures
mag
> or click their way thru cyberspace: why would you, Guy, take a good system
> like yours, now that you have the money management down, and a sizeable
> trading account, and go thru the hassle of setting up a website and
dealing
> with subscribers who you will either have to charge a good chunk of change
> per subscriber (in which case they will expect more attention) or have to
> have a lot subscribers (in which case there will be the a large number of
> people who shouldn't be trading in the first place and they will do it
> incorrectly and some of them will call you with threats that you would be
> concerned about, I've seen it happen)?
>
> Kent
>
>
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