On Aug 30, 2008, at 11:49 PM, Dennis Brown wrote:
> Hi reinsley,
>
> You have a good suggestion. Once we get the basic list together, if
> someone wants to add a new item it would certainly be appropriate to
> bring it up in this thread for now. That way it could be defined
> right on the spot and then added to the Glossary. I doubt the
> Glossary will be ably to be modified directly by anyone except the
> owner of the post once it goes into the UKB. We would need a Wiki
> type database to be able to do collaborative editing. A master list
> should be available in one place in any case so someone else could use
> it locally for searches in some other context.
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> On Aug 30, 2008, at 1:26 PM, reinsley wrote:
>
>>
>> Hello Dennis
>>
>> The glossary is a cornerstone. Great idea !
>>
>> I suggest to keep a place for acronyms.
>>
>> Maybe as a way of doing to add entries, somebody that does not know
>> the meaning of a word or of a functionnality could add the word in
>> the
>> list.
>> Later an advanced user will feel free to add pedagogical
>> explanations.
>> Or many users will fill out the entrie.
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>>
>> --- In
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Dennis Brown <see3d@xxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> Keith,
>>>
>>> Here is what I would suggest. We only work on the first 10 items
>>> collaboratively on-line here to start. We need to get good exposure
>>> for this initially to get lots of good ideas from the list.
>>>
>>> I will be happy to keep a text file of all the changes and upload it
>>> to the files section if needed and attach it to the post at each
>>> logical round of changes. Of course anyone can attach a text file
>>> to
>>> the email version of this post which I and anyone who uses the email
>>> option will get.
>>>
>>> Lets leave the formatting out until we get a round of feedback on
>>> that. The first 10 should stimulate ideas for how we should format
>>> the entries to make them most useful.
>>>
>>> Some initial discussion will help solidify the overall specs of the
>>> final format.
>>>
>>> Tuzo and Mike,
>>>
>>> You suggested using Google docs to make a collaborative effort more
>>> efficient. I like the idea if this was an independent project
>>> with a
>>> dedicated team. However, there are some things beyond just the end
>>> result to accomplish here.
>>>
>>> 1. I would like to have this collaborative effort done in full view
>>> of the community and the watchful eye of Tomasz. This is somewhat
>>> of
>>> an experiment and it can serve as a model to inspire future
>>> community
>>> wide collaboration on other projects with a wide benefit. If there
>>> is
>>> awkwardness, let's see if we can work around it, or demonstrate a
>>> need
>>> for additional ways for the community to interact productively. Of
>>> course it would work better in a PHP Forum environment, but lets
>>> work
>>> with what we have now.
>>>
>>> 2. Suggestions should come from anyone. Even if they only want to
>>> participate for just a single entry on the whole project. Having
>>> too
>>> much hidden away (out of site, out of mind) would deprive the
>>> project
>>> of good input.
>>>
>>> 3. EVERYONE will benefit from seeing each and every AFL or general
>>> AmiBroker term defined in front of them again. Think of it as an
>>> opportunity for new and old to review all the things available and
>>> what they are good for.
>>>
>>> I am not the worlds greatest organizer, and I may have a tendency to
>>> have my eye on the moon while seeing how high I can jump. I you
>>> think
>>> I am wrong about this approach (I acknowledge it is a bit awkward)
>>> speak up and let's find a better way. :)
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Dennis
>>>
>>> On Aug 30, 2008, at 12:07 AM, Keith McCombs wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sounds good to me.
>>>>
>>>> However, is there somewhere we could have a document that we could
>>>> all collaborate on without the text getting all garbled up by
>>>> Yahoogroups, adding carriage returns, line feeds, and >? I believe
>>>> there is some way to do this -- just don't know what that way is.
>>>>
>>>> Dennis Brown wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have moved this thread to its own topic so that it will not get
>>>>> mixed up with the other thread going forward. I have added three
>>>>> replies at the top level here ~Dennis
>>>>>
>>>>> Peter,
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe it should ultimately end up as part of the official
>>>>> docs.
>>>>> However, creating a separate one to start with and getting the
>>>>> bugs
>>>>> worked out of it would help everyone now. If it is a successful
>>>>> and
>>>>> useful document, then I am sure Tomasz will take note and figure
>>>>> out
>>>>> how to incorporate its usefulness into the AB docs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Identifying a need that does not require the brightest brains in
>>>>> the
>>>>> AFL world to contribute to it is a liberating experience. Instead
>>>>> of
>>>>> begging for someone else to solve it, ordinary and extraordinary
>>>>> users
>>>>> alike can make it happen in bite sized chunks.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the way to approach this is for one lead person to take a
>>>>> small section, say the first 10 items in alphabetical order from
>>>>> the
>>>>> functions list and take a stab at filling them out completely and
>>>>> post
>>>>> them here for comments. Then perhaps a few volunteers could follow
>>>>> the lead and each take the next few in sequence. And do the same
>>>>> thing. This way there could be parallel efforts and feedback in an
>>>>> open way that would encourage more participation from anyone who
>>>>> thinks they could do the same thing to a small set. It would not
>>>>> take
>>>>> too long to assemble a good size Glossary that way --one section
>>>>> at a
>>>>> time.
>>>>>
>>>>> BR,
>>>>> Dennis
>>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 29, 2008, at 10:37 PM, peterjldyke wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> Would it be feasible to work on the existing manual without re-
>>>>>> writing another document? The headings and information, as they
>>>>>> stand are already there, set out years ago by TJ and others. What
>>>>> is
>>>>>> lacking is a keyword search in newbie plain english. Maybe a
>>>>>> start
>>>>>> could be made on the Function headings.
>>>>>> Peter
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks. Yes that is what I meant by extracting everything from the
>>>>> docs. Those are the basics, but it does take a bit more detective
>>>>> work to make sure nothing is missed. But if a complete list is not
>>>>> easily available, then we will just have to compile it the best we
>>>>> can
>>>>> and fill in the blanks later. There are a number of single
>>>>> character
>>>>> tokens used in different contexts, like in a text field.
>>>>>
>>>>> BR,
>>>>> Dennis
>>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 29, 2008, at 6:19 PM, Mike wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> It would sure help to get started if Tomasz or someone else
>>>>>>> has a
>>>>>>> current text list of all keywords and tokens that AFL recognizes
>>>>>>> to get started with -- that way nothing would be missed and it
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> just adding info to each one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The existing documentation offers this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
http://www.amibroker.com/guide/a_language.html>>>>>>
http://www.amibroker.com/guide/a_keywords.html
>>>>>>
http://www.amibroker.com/guide/afl/afl_index.php?m=1>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>> Keith,
>>>>>
>>>>> You did such a good job explaining your proposal, would you like
>>>>> to
>>>>> take the first 10 to get us started?
>>>>> The functions list is easy in some respects because it is already
>>>>> half
>>>>> way there. But the one line definitions would likely want to be a
>>>>> bit
>>>>> more descriptive about its intended use. Search words might also
>>>>> include a category or two so the list could return functional
>>>>> groups.
>>>>> The search words might be the largest part of the entry.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would be happy to assemble the whole list off line and keep it
>>>>> updated as we work through the total and publish it in an
>>>>> acceptable
>>>>> form, and try to keep the momentum going --unless someone else
>>>>> wants
>>>>> that role.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can think of some other projects that could be handled the same
>>>>> way
>>>>> that would be of general help to all if this effort is successful.
>>>>>
>>>>> Test group:
>>>>>
>>>>> #include - preprocessor include command (AFL 2.2)
>>>>> #include_once - preprocessor include (once) command (AFL 2.70)
>>>>> #pragma - sets AFL pre-processor option (AFL 2.4)
>>>>> abs - absolute value
>>>>> AccDist - accumulation/distribution
>>>>> acos - arccosine function
>>>>> AddColumn - add numeric exploration column (AFL 1.8)
>>>>> AddTextColumn - add text exploration column (AFL 1.8)
>>>>> AddToComposite - add value to composite ticker (AFL 2.0)
>>>>> ADLine - advance/decline line (AFL 1.2)
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> Dennis
>>>>>
>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Dennis Brown <see3d@xxx>
>>>>>> Date: August 29, 2008 6:02:30 PM EDT
>>>>>> To:
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [amibroker] Re: The best way to help newbies,
>>>>>> oldies, ... and AmiBroker ...
>>>>>> Reply-To:
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Keith,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for rescuing my post from the oblivion of the chaos that
>>>>> came
>>>>>> after it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I like your more detailed suggestion and yes we are talking about
>>>>>> the same thing. From a practical point, this is not something
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> one person should have to take on by themselves -- it could be
>>>>>> overwhelming. This is perfect for a collaborative effort
>>>>>> initially,
>>>>>> but would require a Wiki sort of thing to do that in the broadest
>>>>>> sense. Once it is all pieced together, it would not be too hard
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> maintain in the UKB or in another way. Perhaps a text file could
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> uploaded with the partial document and "checked out" to be worked
>>>>>> on. Eventually it would be complete enough to post as a good
>>>>>> resource, but of course would have to be updated regularly as AFL
>>>>>> evolves.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think my extension to this is that I would like to see the
>>>>> entries
>>>>>> link to the place in the documentation tha t defines them, or
>>>>>> perhaps an auto search for references in the docs. Not clear to
>>>>>> me
>>>>>> yet what would be the most helpful if they are not integrated
>>>>>> into
>>>>>> the official docs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would sure help to get started if Tomasz or someone else has a
>>>>>> current text list of all keywords and tokens that AFL recognizes
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> get started with -- that way nothing would be missed and it is
>>>>>> just
>>>>>> adding info to each one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Otherwise, like you said, the first job to piece them together
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> the various places in the docs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any other ideas about how to make this a reality without killing
>>>>> one
>>>>>> person?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>> Dennis
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 29, 2008, at 4:34 PM, Keith McCombs wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dennis --
>>>>>>> Your comments below reminded me of something I've always wanted
>>>>> for
>>>>>>> AFL. You called it an "AFL to English Dictionary", while I was
>>>>>>> thinking "Glossary". But, I believe, we may be looking for the
>>>>>>> same thing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Many times I knew what I wanted but couldn't find it in the help
>>>>>>> documentation just because I didn't know what AB called it. For
>>>>>>> example, when I first wanted to plot multiple or different or
>>>>> other
>>>>>>> equities, all on the same chart, I was pretty sure that it could
>>>>> be
>>>>>>> done but had a hard time figuring out how. It was quite a while
>>>>>>> ago, so I'm not sure exactly how I tried to solve the problem.
>>>>>>> But
>>>>>>> I probably opened up Help and did a Search for 'multiple',
>>>>>>> 'different', 'other', or 'many'. Somehow, eventually, I
>>>>>>> discovered
>>>>>>> the 'foreign' function, which, by the way, took me longer than
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> write and debug my final code.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Had there been an "AFL to English Dictionary" or 'Glossary' with
>>>>> an
>>>>>>> entry like,
>>>>>>> "foreign( ) -- refers to symbols other primary symbol. Search -
>>>>>>> different, many, multiple, other."
>>>>>>> it would have been of great help at the time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Another hard one, at least for me, to come up with on my own,
>>>>>>> "AddToComposite() -- used to create composite indicators.
>>>>>>> Search - different, index, indicator, many, multiple, other.
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> "ATC -- abbreviation for AddToComposite."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Note: Making such a glossary should not be very difficult. It
>>>>>>> would consist of:
>>>>>>> 1. Make a list of all the keywords, functions, and other useful
>>>>>>> terms in AFL.
>>>>>>> 2. Add very brief description for each. Best done by users with
>>>>>>> 'intermediate' experience.
>>>>>>> 3. Add Search words. Best done dynamically by newer users,
>>>>>>> especially those who had difficulty finding the particular
>>>>>>> keyword
>>>>>>> or function.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This could be a very useful addition to the UKB.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh yes,
>>>>>>> "Users Knowledge Base -- very helpful "how to" articles by
>>>>>>> users.
http://www.amibroker.org/userkb/glossary
>>>>>>> Search - user, more, help, tutorial.
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> "UKB -- abbreviation for Users Knowledge Base."
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> "AFL -- abbreviation for AmiBroker Formula Language."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BTW, given such a 'Glossary' or 'AFL to English Dictionary', I
>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>> no need for an "English to AFL Dictionary". Just search for the
>>>>>>> English word that you think might lead you in the right
>>>>>>> direction.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- Keith
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dennis Brown wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ron, and other posters to this thread,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is a good example of where some of the problems in
>>>>>>>> understandin g come from. AFL is cryptic and concise. It
>>>>>>>> takes a
>>>>>>>> good long while to make the connection between a natural
>>>>>>>> language
>>>>>>>> _expression_ of the desired result and the AFL to say the same
>>>>>>>> thing. I had ask for an AFL to English dictionary. You and
>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>> posters are asking for an English to AFL phrase book. I really
>>>>>>>> like that idea. There are a large number of one liners that are
>>>>>>>> very useful and are great at teaching how things work in AFL.
>>>>>>>> How
>>>>>>>> many times have I seen a question for "How do I plot a vertical
>>>>>>>> line at x?" or "How do I change the background color by bar to
>>>>>>>> indicate some indicator condition?". Almost the kind of thing
>>>>>>>> that could make up an AFL FAQ section. This seems like one of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> things the UKB was created to handle. However, each item is too
>>>>>>>> small to warrant a wh ole UKB article in itself. The TOC
>>>>>>>> structure is not set up for that IMO. However, having a dozen
>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>> liners about plotting, etc., in one subject would be very
>>>>>>>> helpful. Just the fact that a number of question would be
>>>>>>>> answered under one general heading makes it more likely that a
>>>>> new
>>>>>>>> user would find the answer to the thing he wanted quickly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am hearing so many good ideas on this and similar threads in
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> last couple of days from new and old hands.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am a great fan of "Cheat Sheets". Condensation of all key
>>>>>>>> points to a subject on one page. There are many areas of AFL
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> could fit into this model.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Of course the problem with the UKB is that each article has to
>>>>>>>> have an owner who is responsible to input and update its
>>>>>>>> content.
>>>>>>>> There are also some barriers to becoming a UKB author. Not big
>>>>>>>> ones, but just big enough to keep busy people from crossing
>>>>>>>> over.
>>>>>>>> &n bsp;One suggestion was made to have AB support help out with
>>>>>>>> that so there would be an easy as email way to make a contrib
>>>>>>>> ution for these snippets. Support already has offered to post
>>>>>>>> articles for authors, but I think it is still a barrier to have
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> write a "complete" article to post anything. Adding to an
>>>>>>>> article
>>>>>>>> that is already structured with a small think like people post
>>>>>>>> hers would not be so daunting.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think it is a great idea to have a topic related AFL phrase
>>>>>>>> book. Of course it would also be appropriate for any UKB author
>>>>>>>> to put up his hand and say he will sign up to maintain a
>>>>>>>> particular topic UKB entry for the phrase book.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Perhaps if a few of us could take a topic and get the ball
>>>>>>>> rolling, others would join in. The idea is that instead of
>>>>>>>> writing a UKB article, you just email a snippet to the
>>>>> responsible
>>>>>>>> person to add it to the article.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This list itself could be used to vet things first to reduce
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> editing of completed articles. That way someone would not have
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> be an expert to maintain one topic.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If several people like this basic idea, the we could expand the
>>>>>>>> concept and create an outline for the subjects.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Should we start organizing the topics for a phrase book?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is one thing to complain, another to suggest improvements,
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> still another to be willing to contribute to the suggestions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What do people think of this idea, and contributing to it?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>> Dennis
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Aug 28, 2008, at 3:13 PM, <professor@xxx> <professor@xxx
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ron,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The examples that you used were perfect. Even I could
>>>>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>>>> how they worked and learn how to do things that I wanted to do
>>>>>>>>> but didn't know how to do it. I spent a lot of time using
>>>>>>>>> barssince and ref trying accomplish this.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> Tom
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: Ronald Davis
>>>>>>>>> To: amibroker@xxx
oogroups.com>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 11:36 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [amibroker] Re: The best way to help newbies,
>>>>>>>>> oldies, ... and AmiBroker ...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In the very early days of my Amibroker learning curve, The
>>>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>>>> help that I
>>>>>>>>> received was from this board when an experienced user was kind
>>>>>>>>> enough to
>>>>>>>>> quickly code an example or what I was asking.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Then, I would play with what they had given me, and I started
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>>>> how to use Amibroker.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For example, REF(c>ref(c,2),5); says that the close that
>>>>> happened
>>>>>>>>> five days
>>>>>>>>> ago has to be higher than the close that happened on the sixth
>>>>>>>>> day ago.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Whereas, SUM(c>ref(c,2),5); only requires that any one or more
>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> closes over the last five days has to be higher than the
>>>>> previous
>>>>>>>>> days
>>>>>>>>> close.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The above examples of simple english explanations from this
>>>>> board
>>>>>>>>> are how I
>>>>>>>>> started l earning Amibroker. Ron D
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Ken Close" <ken45140@xxx>
>>>>>>>>> To: <
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 12:15 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [amibroker] Re: The best way to help newbies,
>>>>>>>>> oldies, ... and
>>>>>>>>> AmiBroker ...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Amen. Amen! AMEN!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> While Tomasz has done so much to improve and expand the
>>>>>>>>> training/manual
>>>>>>>>>> since the early days (he really has!), the fact there is
>>>>>>>>> continual
>>>>>>>>>> questions
>>>>>>>>>> on the same stuff or "small stuff", suggests there is still
>>>>>>>>> room for and
>>>>>>>>>> benefit from improvement.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am constantly reminded (or remind myself) that Tomasz has
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> say "Read
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> Manual". Some questions are almost obvious that a quick trip
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> help
>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>> answer the question, but o ther "simple" questions are not.
>>>>>>>>> Many of us do
>>>>>>>>>> attempt to find the answers in help but cannot.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For example, yesterday, I wanted to know how to make
>>>>>>>>> subscripted arrays.
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> did not remember that VarGet and VarSet was set up to do
>>>>>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>>>> So a trip
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> Help and typing in "subscripted arrays" found 9 entries none
>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> which led
>>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>> to VarSet or VarGet. I think one of the improvements would
>>>>> be a
>>>>>>>>> search
>>>>>>>>>> system which allowed more complex search logic or strings, or
>>>>>>>>> some way to
>>>>>>>>>> zero in on the specific request. As Tomasz says, it is almost
>>>>>>>>> always in
>>>>>>>>>> there, it just is hard to find.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ken
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From:
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> [mailto:
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>>> Of Dennis Brown
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: T hursday, August 28, 2008 11:58 AM
>>>>>>>>>> To:
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [amibroker] Re: The best way to help newbies,
>>>>>>>>> oldies, ... and
>>>>>>>>>> AmiBroker ...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Brian,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You are correct. I switched to AB because I wanted a
>>>>>>>>> programming language
>>>>>>>>>> that was fundamentally tied into the realtime price arrays
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> charting
>>>>>>>>>> for the same. RT quotes --> Database --> AFL -->
>>>>>>>>>> Charts. That was all I wanted, and that is pretty much all I
>>>>> use.
>>>>>>>>>> There is a lot of overhead associated with getting and
>>>>>>>>> maintaining the
>>>>>>>>>> data,
>>>>>>>>>> interacting with the user, and outputting the the data in a
>>>>>>>>> useful form.
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> only wanted to be concerned with the algorithms that decided
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> buy or
>>>>>>>>>> sell.
>>>>>>>>>> Interestingly, even with all the support functions handled by
>>>>>>>>> AB, I still
>>>>>>>>>> spend 80% of my time coding UI things! I think it is some
>>>>> kin d
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> computer
>>>>>>>>>> programming law.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> AFL was my real destination with AmiBroker, and I had a hard
>>>>>>>>> time because
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> was not well defined. A lot of assumptions were made about
>>>>> prior
>>>>>>>>>> knowledge
>>>>>>>>>> of specific programming language conventions in C like
>>>>> languages.
>>>>>>>>>> Languages
>>>>>>>>>> I had no experience with. These are middle level languages.
>>>>>>>>>> My
>>>>>>>>>> experience
>>>>>>>>>> was with machine level assembler code, and very high level
>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>> Revolution/SuperCard/HyperCard, and a
>>>>>>>>>> smattering of BASIC and APL from the original versions 40
>>>>> years
>>>>>>>>> ago.
>>>>>>>>>> I had no idea that I was supposed to go learn C syntax
>>>>> before I
>>>>>>>>> could use
>>>>>>>>>> the AFL documentation. IMHO this is a documentation hole big
>>>>>>>>> enough to
>>>>>>>>>> drive a truck through.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Then what happens when someone has no experience with any
>>>>>>>>> programming
>>>>>>>>>> language at all. Perhaps some Excel experience, or maybe
>>>>>>>>> experience using
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> programmable calculator. I c an't imagine the bewilderment
>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> AFL. It
>>>>>>>>>> takes a lot of handholding from support or this list to get
>>>>>>>>> over the first
>>>>>>>>>> hump.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I believe it would be appropriate to define the AFL language
>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> documentation as if it were the only language that exists on
>>>>>>>>> the planet.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For instance "+" is defined as "Addition". Whereas, in
>>>>>>>>>> reality
>>>>>>>>> the "+"
>>>>>>>>>> operator is data type dependent. It will add two numbers,
>>>>> add a
>>>>>>>>> number to
>>>>>>>>>> every element in an array, add two arrays element by
>>>>> element, or
>>>>>>>>>> concatenate
>>>>>>>>>> two strings. It will not add a number or array to a string.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As I have suggested before, I would have liked to see a
>>>>>>>>> "Complete"
>>>>>>>>>> listing of all operators, functions, reserved words, syntax
>>>>>>>>> characters,
>>>>>>>>>> directives, etc., in one live list index that points to a
>>>>>>>>>> page
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> explains
>>>>>>>>>> each one in the same way that the functions are now
>>>>>>>>>> described.
>>>>>>>>> Then
>>>>>>>>>> additional "see also" pointers on those pages to point to
>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>> in depth
>>>>>>>>>> documents when available. In fact the current functions list
>>>>>>>>> could simply
>>>>>>>>>> be expanded to do this.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This would have saved me many weeks off the learning curve.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't know if Howard is planning on doing this in his new
>>>>>>>>> book, but it
>>>>>>>>>> should be part of the on-line documentation.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>>> Dennis
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 28, 2008, at 10:34 AM, brian_z111 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't explain myself very well there.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What I am saying is that I think we are making it harder by
>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>> admitting that it is a programmers program and just getting
>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> teaching AFL.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone held told me that at the start I would have run
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> it but
>>>>>>>>>>> the fact is that the help manual is about 'AmiBroker the
>>>>>>>>> program' but
>>>>>>>>>>> eventually I came to realise it is all about programming -
>>>>>>>>>>> specifically AFL.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So, if I do want to get on with it where do I go?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The AFL section of the h elp manual is condensed.
>>>>>>>>>>> The first few chapters of Howards Book are a basic intro to
>>>>> AB
>>>>>>>>> and the
>>>>>>>>>>> rest of the book is orientated around SystemDesign &
>>>>> Evaluation?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Where is the next stop on the AFL line?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> brian_z
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --- In
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "brian_z111"
>>>>>>>>> <brian_z111@> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Herman,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I always figured that sticking with AFL would have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> provided
>>>>>>>>> a more
>>>>>>>>>>>>> continuous path for users to develop their programming
>>>>>>>>> expertise.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This is a new point, not really discussed much before, I
>>>>> think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I really don't know how to put it in words but you are so
>>>>>>>>> right.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tomasz should be proud of me because if I am a programmer
>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>> all I
>>>>>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>>>>>> an array programmer...... but sometimes I am l eft reaching
>>>>>>>>> for AFL?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps there are co nventions that people with 2 or more
>>>>>>>>>>> programming
>>>>>>>>>>>> languages automatically understand?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Do I have to go and learn C++ as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Should I need too?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> brian_z
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Please note that this group is for discussion between users only.
>>
>> To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly to
>> SUPPORT {at}
amibroker.com>>
>> For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check DEVLOG:
>>
http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/>>
>> For other support material please check also:
>>
http://www.amibroker.com/support.html
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Please note that this group is for discussion between users only.
>
> To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly to
> SUPPORT {at}
amibroker.com>
> For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check DEVLOG:
>
http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/
>
> For other support material please check also:
>
http://www.amibroker.com/support.html> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
------------------------------------
Please note that this group is for discussion between users only.
To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly to
SUPPORT {at}
amibroker.com
For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check DEVLOG:
http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/For other support material please check also:
http://www.amibroker.com/support.htmlYahoo! Groups Links
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