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> what I would like to see... a buy/sell
> tear off button
Stops etc could be coded as per the BackTester.
Click to sell or cover would over-ride code.
Stops etc could also be set via studies on the chart ... green line
for profit stop (when bullish) and red line for stop loss (when
bullish).
Sell/cover click overides code and studies.
Studies over ride code.
(Maybe a GUI window would be needed as the 'LiveTester' settings
panel (choose colours and type of studies to use).
brian_z
--- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "brian_z111" <brian_z111@xxx> wrote:
>
>
> > How far would we want this 'simulated chart trading' facility to
> > extend...? Would they just be 'at market' buys and sells...?
Would
> >you
> > be able to place stops for each trade based off the chart too...?
> >Are
> > we talking about placing this information on the chart in replay
> >mode
> > so that we are simulating being at the RHS of the chart...?
>
> Good questions.
>
> I am sure others can do better than me (I think Herman is a way
ahead
> of us on this).
>
> My opinion....as a minimum.... what I would like to see... a
buy/sell
> tear off button ... like my trading platform ....click to action...
> trades are recorded ... a 'LiveTest' summary/report is available,
> with metrics, the same as a 'BackTest' report....... reports are
> saved for later use via Report Explorer.
>
> Using that model, the live tester, would reference the 'BackTester'
> settings e.g. for initial equity and other relevant settings.
>
> The 'LiveTester' report could be accessed via AA after the session.
>
> I guess we would need to pause/continue a session by choice.
>
> That is the minimalist model (most bang for the buck?).
>
> Why stop there?
>
> Herman has been talking about a fully blown chart trading approach.
>
> I am not sure exactly what his approach entails but he is
definitely
> a Chart Trader AND a programmed rules Trader so the scope seems to
be
> there to put it all together in one feature.
>
>
> brian_z
>
>
>
> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "sidhartha70" <sidhartha70@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I agree Mike in that I don't yet see the WFA angle here. Perhaps
> Allan
> > could expand on this.
> >
> > However, I do see the value in being able to breakdown daily
> > 'discretionary portfolio returns & risk' (whether it's genuinely a
> > portfolio or one instrument) into the usual analysis metrics.
> >
> > How far would we want this 'simulated chart trading' facility to
> > extend...? Would they just be 'at market' buys and sells...?
Would
> you
> > be able to place stops for each trade based off the chart too...?
> Are
> > we talking about placing this information on the chart in replay
> mode
> > so that we are simulating being at the RHS of the chart...?
> >
> >
> > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Mike" <sfclimbers@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I can certainly see the value in calculating a full suite of
> metrics
> > > based on the discretionary trades made via clicking on a chart
> over a
> > > given time period. These would be the equivalent of a
mechanical
> > > trader's backtest results and would be the benchmark by which
> > > approaches were measured.
> > >
> > > But, how exactly would a discretionary trader perform a WFA
given
> > > that WFA is the application of optimized parameters upon
untested
> > > data?
> > >
> > > I doubt that you are suggesting that the discretionary trader
> would
> > > manually iterate over the same chart trying different
approaches,
> and
> > > that AB (or any other product) would then have to somehow
figure
> out
> > > what the methodology was in order to apply that logic into the
> next
> > > out of sample period. Yet, that would be the only way to marry
> the
> > > two concepts (i.e. discretionary and WFA).
> > >
> > > Even if the software did have some kind of artificial
> intelligence
> > > that could capture logic based on the discretionary trades made
> > > within a period, what would be the point? The discretionary
> trader
> > > would not confine themself to the signals produced by the WFA.
If
> > > they did, they would no longer be discretionary, but instead be
> > > mechanical traders :)
> > >
> > > It seems to me that WFA is the exact opposite of discretionary
> > > trading.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "matrix10014" <allansn@>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Sidhartha,
> > > > No offense to anyone,but it is a bit of a messy solution and
> one
> > > that
> > > > is good enough to make one dangerous.
> > > >
> > > > It certainly appears that a skilled programmer could make the
> > > > necessary changes to bring it to a professional level,but I
am
> > > > certainly not that person.
> > > >
> > > > IMHO,whether one is a discretionary trader or system
trader,the
> > > > ability to perform some sort on WFA is essential,and the very
> same
> > > > analytics/statistics should be available to both styles.
> > > >
> > > > Does anyone think the discretionary traders at firms such as
> SAC
> > > > capital simply wing it,while the stat arb boys have all the
> > > > firepower??
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "sidhartha70"
<sidhartha70@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I took a look at Herman's thread Mike and I personally
think
> it's
> > > a
> > > > > bit of a messy solution to what Allan is requesting.
> Basically he
> > > > > wants something of 'professional' quality rather than
tacked
> on.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Mike" <sfclimbers@>
wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your comment on simulated discretionary trading was
> addressed
> > > > earlier
> > > > > > in the thread by Herman, though perhaps not to the degree
> of
> > > > backtest
> > > > > > metrics that you might be after.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/amibroker/message/128437
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "matrix10014"
<allansn@>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi T,
> > > > > > > As a discretionary trader,I find the charting
package
> in
> > > Ami
> > > > to
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > excellent.The only gripe I have is that one can not
shift
> to
> > > > higher
> > > > > > > time frames(daily to weekly) without the chart and
> trendlines
> > > > > > jumping
> > > > > > > all over the place,i.e.,from one date to the
next.Without
> > > > having
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > end dates locked(far right dates),multiple time frame
> > > analysis
> > > > > > > becomes a very difficult task,and analysis is rendered
> > > > useless.Its
> > > > > > > essential that the far right side of the chart have the
> same
> > > > date
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > > any time frame.I discussed it in the past,but you had
> your
> > > own
> > > > > > > views.Sadly,I had to go to another program.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On another note,and far more important, a discretionary
> > > trader
> > > > > > needs
> > > > > > > the same risk management tools that a system trader
> does.The
> > > > two
> > > > > > > styles are not so disimilar that a system trader has
the
> > > > benefit of
> > > > > > > full backtesting/optimisation/WFA while the
discretionary
> > > > trader
> > > > > > > should be left to perform his analysis with a
> pencil,paper
> > > and
> > > > > > > abacus.Ami should offer the capability to SIMULATE
> > > > discretionary
> > > > > > > trading.That means the ability to point and click on
the
> > > chart
> > > > and
> > > > > > > record all Entrys(long and short),Exits,and stops with
> > > > > > > pyramiding/scaling capabilities.In addition full
> reporting
> > > > should
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > available with a scaled down version of backtest
results
> as
> > > > well as
> > > > > > > the capability to export the trades should one wish to
do
> > > > perform
> > > > > > > further analysis,i.e position sizing,Money management.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Unless one is performing algorithmic trading/mean
> reversion
> > > > > > > strategies,I think there is a fine line between rule
> based
> > > > trading
> > > > > > vs
> > > > > > > discretionary.Granted the approachs are different,but
> once a
> > > > trade
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > on,one still has to manage it with the very best tools
> > > > > > > available.Hopefully,Ami can level the playing field
> between
> > > the
> > > > > > > system "tools" vs the "discretionary" tools avaiable.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Allan
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Allan
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Tomasz Janeczko"
> <groups@>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I appreciate all suggestions and there is really no
> problem
> > > > > > > > in adding new features provided that there is demand
> for
> > > them.
> > > > > > > > I specifically asked for charting suggestions, as
this
> is
> > > way
> > > > > > > > more "subjective" thing than backtesting and other
rule-
> > > based
> > > > > > tools.
> > > > > > > > Discretionary traders seem to be very sensitive to
all
> those
> > > > > > > > little details and aesthetics. These are are
sometimes
> easy
> > > > to
> > > > > > > develop
> > > > > > > > sometimes not, but unless you hear the feedback it is
> not
> > > > possible
> > > > > > > > to know what every single person uses.
> > > > > > > > So again, feedback is appreciated. If possible and
not
> too
> > > > time
> > > > > > > consuming
> > > > > > > > for you, I greatly appreciate filling the issue via
> > > feedback
> > > > > > > center. If not,
> > > > > > > > I can keep track on my internal list.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > > > Tomasz Janeczko
> > > > > > > > amibroker.com
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: "sidhartha70" <sidhartha70@>
> > > > > > > > To: <amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 5:30 PM
> > > > > > > > Subject: [amibroker] Re: 'Rule Based'
> > > versus 'Discretionary'
> > > > > > > trading...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > How97,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I agree. You've stated nothing that I haven't
already.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I do use other software... MarketDelta & have been
> > > looking
> > > > at
> > > > > > > Ninja
> > > > > > > > > with a market profile plug in as an alternative.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Like others, I'm not desperately keen on using
> multiple
> > > > software
> > > > > > > > > systems. I'd rather try and get it under one roof.
> And
> > > the
> > > > > > truth
> > > > > > > is it
> > > > > > > > > really wouldn't be hard for TJ to add some of that
> > > > > > functionality.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I'm adding my voice to a largely dominant rule
based
> > > > crowd... I
> > > > > > > hope
> > > > > > > > > you're ok with free expression of wishes and
> ideas...??
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I think others have also made it clear on this
thread
> > > that
> > > > > > they'd
> > > > > > > like
> > > > > > > > > to see some more functionality on the charting side
> too.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "how97"
> <101.158294@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> I believe it is clear that the large majority of
the
> AB
> > > > users
> > > > > > > want
> > > > > > > > >> to have the possibility for rule-based trading,
> > > > backtesting,
> > > > > > > > >> automatic analysis, automatic trading etc. For
that
> > > group
> > > > > > > Amibroker
> > > > > > > > >> is just excellent and it is constantly enhanced in
> these
> > > > > > > > >> possibilities. And that is what the large majority
> of
> > > its
> > > > > > users
> > > > > > > > >> wants. And AB strongly supported by its users and
> driven
> > > > by
> > > > > > > their
> > > > > > > > >> wishes.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> The large majority of users is clearly not the
> > > > discretionary
> > > > > > > > >> traders. These may need better or specialized
> charting.
> > > > That
> > > > > > may
> > > > > > > > >> well be. If this better charting software exists
> already
> > > > as
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > >> saying, why are you not using it, why did you come
> here
> > > to
> > > > AB?
> > > > > > > What
> > > > > > > > >> were you looking for?
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> I think it is also a clear preference of Tomasz to
> > > develop
> > > > AB
> > > > > > > into a
> > > > > > > > >> direction where most of its users wants to ahve
it.
> And
> > > > that
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > >> good. A lot of the stuff in AB is much too complex
> if
> > > you
> > > > are
> > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > >> looking for other kinds of charting. So why
bother?
> You
> > > > need
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > use
> > > > > > > > >> a different software.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> By the way: In my opinion AB allows excellent
> charting.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> Regards
> > > > > > > > >> how97
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "sidhartha70"
> > > > <sidhartha70@>
> > > > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> > From my perspective, and this is really why I
> > > connected
> > > > > > > charting to
> > > > > > > > >> > the ideas of 'rule based' vs 'discretionary'
> > > trading...
> > > > if
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > >> a
> > > > > > > > >> > discretionary trader, from a software
perspective
> it
> > > is
> > > > ALL
> > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > >> > visibility. If the software you are using
doesn't
> or
> > > > can't
> > > > > > > give you
> > > > > > > > >> > the best visibility available then you are at a
> > > > > > disadvanatge.
> > > > > > > You
> > > > > > > > >> > can't make sensible discretionary trading
> decisions
> > > > without
> > > > > > > being
> > > > > > > > >> able
> > > > > > > > >> > to see how current market structure has evolved,
> what
> > > > market
> > > > > > > > >> dynamics
> > > > > > > > >> > are at play, how the auction process is evolving
> at
> > > > > > different
> > > > > > > time
> > > > > > > > >> > frames etc..etc.. You simply don't get that from
> bar &
> > > > > > candle
> > > > > > > > >> charts.
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> > Hence my obsession with Market Profile &
> Equivolume
> > > and
> > > > > > > generally
> > > > > > > > >> more
> > > > > > > > >> > accessability and adaptability to AmiBroker's
> charting
> > > > > > > facilicites.
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> > Currently it's a fabulous piece of software,
> > > > particualrly
> > > > > > > for 'rule
> > > > > > > > >> > based' traders.... But probably a less fabulous
> piece
> > > of
> > > > > > > software
> > > > > > > > >> for
> > > > > > > > >> > discretionary day traders for example. But of
> course,
> > > I
> > > > > > > appreciate,
> > > > > > > > >> > it's hard to be all things to all men...
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Ken Close
> > > <ken45140@>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > One simple suggestion for charting improvement:
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > Put in the ability to insert a "Tab" character
> in a
> > > > Title
> > > > > > > > >> statement
> > > > > > > > >> > in order
> > > > > > > > >> > > to make it easier to produce multi-line tables
> > > > > > > with "columns"
> > > > > > > > >> left
> > > > > > > > >> > justified
> > > > > > > > >> > > no matter how many decimal places in previous
> values
> > > > in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > same
> > > > > > > > >> row. I
> > > > > > > > >> > > have done it via complex IIF statements but
how
> nice
> > > > it
> > > > > > > would be
> > > > > > > > >> to
> > > > > > > > >> > insert
> > > > > > > > >> > > the code for a tab character to create
columns.
> No,
> > > I
> > > > do
> > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > >> want to do
> > > > > > > > >> > > this with the gfx commands (too complex for
this
> > > > > > > application).
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > Ken
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > >> > > From: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > >> [mailto:amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > > > > > > >> > On Behalf
> > > > > > > > >> > > Of Tomasz Janeczko
> > > > > > > > >> > > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 4:33 PM
> > > > > > > > >> > > To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > >> > > Subject: Re: [amibroker] 'Rule Based'
> > > > > > versus 'Discretionary'
> > > > > > > > >> trading...
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > Hello,
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > Not wanting to hijack this thread but whenever
I
> ask
> > > > about
> > > > > > > some
> > > > > > > > >> itemized
> > > > > > > > >> > > list of what is exactly "weak" in AB charting,
I
> > > don't
> > > > > > > receive
> > > > > > > > >> any
> > > > > > > > >> > > meaningful reply. I would really want to know
> some
> > > > > > objective
> > > > > > > list
> > > > > > > > >> > instead of
> > > > > > > > >> > > statements I heard on ET that "charts are
ugly"
> > > which
> > > > for
> > > > > > me
> > > > > > > > >> > unfortunatelly
> > > > > > > > >> > > means nothing, considering the hunderds of
ways
> > > charts
> > > > can
> > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > >> customized
> > > > > > > > >> > > according to user taste in AB.
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Please note that this group is for discussion
between
> > > users
> > > > > > only.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail
> > > > directly to
> > > > > > > > > SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always
> check
> > > > > > DEVLOG:
> > > > > > > > > http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > For other support material please check also:
> > > > > > > > > http://www.amibroker.com/support.html
> > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
------------------------------------
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