|
Jan,
Since I started using my auto trading program
(actually Barry's program), I still have the emotional feelings to
trade. However, since I am not watching the market like I did
before. I am not as tempted to trade. That trade that I wrote
about is now showing almost $3000 profit and I wanted to sell at
$1100 profit and again at $1500 profit. This is so much easier. I
was sleeping when it traded this trade. Well, it didn't
actually trade it due to a problem which I have corrected, but my
cell rang and woke me up. I checked the charts and made the trade
manually. Remember that I only make about 5 or 6 trades a month so
it is perfect for me.
Still, the stress level is almost none
existant.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: Jan Malmberg
To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxps.com
Sent: Tuesday,
August 05, 2008 9:52 AM
Subject: SV:
SV: SV: SV: [amibroker] Anyone actually making money?
To me, the hardest part of discretionary
Elliott Wave trading is that – well, apart from finding the right
pattern – is that very often when I am right, I am tempted to
close profits too early. This has led to me using two sets of
stoporders, initially using a critical level which breaks the
pattern, and then using a trailing stop order once the breakout of
the accumulation pattern occurs. Since I also had a problem with
re-buying stocks that took out a minor formation, but then moved
in the previously anticipated direction, I have started to
implement a re-buy rule. Unfortunately, it has been hard to use it
to its fullest. But I will get there.
What I am trying to say is that I am also
using rules and trigger levels, although not in an automated
fashion, and it is probably not really what you would call a
trading system.
Best regards / JM
Från: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxps.com [mailto:amibroker@xxxxxxxxxps.com] För Jan
Malmberg
Skickat: den
5 augusti 2008 18:34
Till: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxps.com
Ämne: SV: SV:
SV: SV: [amibroker] Anyone actually making money?
And my discretionary/manual Elliott
Wave-system gave me buy signal at OMXS30 865,25, which was
contrary to my opinion on where we would go. Nice profits today.
However, more training is required. Best regards / JM
Från: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxps.com [mailto:amibroker@xxxxxxxxxps.com] För professor77747
Skickat: den
5 augusti 2008 17:32
Till: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxps.com
Ämne: Re: SV:
SV: SV: [amibroker] Anyone actually making money?
Originally, in this thread, comments were
made about how your
temperment and personality would affect your
trading results. I have
a trading program that I have tested both
with backtesting and actual
trading for about a year. I have been
perfecting it for several
years.
Despite the fact that I believe that it
works and have actually
traded it and seen it work very profitably,
I still have a hard time
sticking to it. Which is why I am now
autotrading it so that I don't
have to make the decisions.
However, I am not sticking to it like I
should. In my last few
trades, I traded when I was sure the market
would change only to be
proven wrong and my program correct. One my
current gold futures
short trade, I was up $1100 and was sure
that gold was going up
because it had dropped so far. I wanted to
sell. My program didn't
sell and I was determined to follow my
program. Then gold dropped
again and I was up $1700. This morning, gold
went up and I didn't
have a cover signal. I was now up only
$1500. I knew that gold was on
its way up. I actually had a buy order
entered when my wife said that
I should follow my program and let the
program auto trade. I was sure
that gold was on its way up and I was sure
that I would lose so of my
profit. Then I decided to wait. Gold went
down again and I am up
$2600 as I write this.
My point is that emotions, greed, risk
tolerance, and other factors
will affect your trading profits.
Tom
--- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxps.com, "Jan Malmberg" <jan@xxx> wrote:
>
> Thank you for some interesting posts.
Much of it is so "obvious"
that it is
> easy to forget it. Best regards /
JM
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Från: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxps.com [mailto:amibroker@xxxxxxxxxps.com]
För
> brian_z111
> Skickat: den 5 augusti 2008
04:47
> Till: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxps.com
> Ämne: Re: SV: SV: [amibroker] Anyone
actually making money?
>
>
>
> Quite right.
>
> Virtuality is the
environment.
>
> It enhances and shapes the
experience.
>
> I believe we can safely 'take the
shortcut' if we are consciously
> aware of what is involved
(psychologically) and assist the process
> i.e. to build our trading ALTER EGO by
repetition. That is why it
is
> essential to settle on a market, a
timeframe, a system etc (that
> includes if making discretionary
choices is the system) even if
they
> aren't the perfect choice.
>
> example:
>
> There is Tiger Woods the Golfer and
Tiger Woods the Man.
>
> The golfing alter ego has been built
over a long period by
isolating
> the key skills and then practising them
continually.
> When he steps on the golf course the
alter ego goes onto auto-pilot
> (not a religious experience as such but
an alternative
consciousness,
> or sub-consciousness, for
sure).
>
> Once we have spent a long time on one
market/timeframe/system the
TAE
> will be quite strong and we can then
move to another Mkt/T/S and
> adapt very quickly (I did that by
moving to intraday stocks after
> years of EOD stocks and picked it up to
a reasonable level in a few
> days - and I changed systems to suit
the RT market too).
>
> brian_z
>
> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:amibroker%40yahoogroups.com>
ps.com,
> Dennis Brown <see3d@>
wrote:
> >
> > ~yes~
> >
> > Also, once you realize the true
nature of our "virtual" reality,
> you
> > can start playing with Monopoly
money.
> >
> > ~dennis
> >
> > On Aug 4, 2008, at 8:38 PM,
brian_z111 wrote:
> >
> > > FTR
> > > I don't know how people can
tranlate this into applied Trading
> > > Psychology but to set the
record straight.
> > >
> > > Re the relevance of
spirituality/personal development to
trading:
> > >
> > > Using Indian spiritual
philosophy as the example.
> > >
> > > There is no single philosophy
but rather a myriad of inter-
related
> > > and sometimes conflicting
ones.
> > > However, as a generalisation,
the ideals of Indian spirituality
> are
> > > passive (to a Westerner) and
can be summarised as:
> > >
> > > - Man is a small replica of
God (potentially)
> > > - the goal is to sublimate
the mind of Man to the mind of God
> (Yoga
> > > is the union of
Man-God)
> > > - various practices are used
to faclitate this (meditation,
> prayer,
> > > singing/chanting, dancing
etc)
> > > - permanancy of the union is
a long and difficult goal, seldom
> > > achieved
> > > - temporary intimacy with the
Gods, achieved via spiritual
> practices,
> > > TRANSFORMS the practitioner
and hence their culture
> > > - psyhic powers (Siddhi) are
a byproduct and considered a
> distraction
> > > and/or dangerous
> > > - worldly success is
considered somewhat of lesser value than
> > > spiritual success
> > >
> > > "From the Unreal lead me to
the Real".
> > >
> > > Once again these are gross
simplifications which have been
> vigorously
> > > debated for thousands of
years.
> > >
> > > Western spirituality is
active.
> > > We seek to "petition the
Lord" to intervene in our
lifes/culture
> and
> > > to give us the Power(s),
ostensibly to do his work.
> > >
> > > In both cases the spiritual
path is the same, except that the
> > > emphasis is different,
however all variations on the theme are
> > > operative in both cultures,
via their sub-cultures.
> > >
> > >
> > > Applying this to
trading:
> > >
> > > Will adopting spiritual
practices, say meditation, or prayer,
> make me
> > > a better trader?
> > >
> > > Is there any correspondence
between the transcendental
> consciousness
> > > of meditation/prayer and the
mindset that successful traders
have
> > > (assuming there is such a
thing as a common identifiable traders
> > > mindset)?
> > >
> > > Possibly.
> > >
> > > In my own experience, if I
had any advantages in this area when
I
> > > started out trading i.e. I
did "know myself" before I started
> > > trading, I still had to get
to know the markets, TA, my broker,
> data
> > > provider and software etc as
well.
> > >
> > >
> > > Re 'Positive Thinking' and
'The Power of The Mind'
> > >
> > > This has been borrowed from
spiritual teachings (power of
Prayer
> etc).
> > >
> > > This is an application of a
limited part of spirituality, and
> without
> > > the attendant ethics etc it
can bring about Worldly Success but
> that
> > > doesn't neccessarily equate
to Life Success i.e. it is a partial
> > > spiritual practice without
the full experience or spiritual
> knowledge.
> > >
> > >
> > > Is there a mindset that
successful traders have (as claimed by
> Mark
> > > Douglas "In The Trading
Zone")?
> > >
> > > Possibly, or Mark could have
just found a good way to make some
> money
> > > OR be projecting his personal
needs/worldview onto the trading
> world.
> > >
> > > As a hypothesis (a lot of
traders say that trading changed the
way
> > > they think i.e trading
changed THEM).
> > >
> > > In my experience we tend
to:
> > >
> > > - spend more and more time
alone in the trading room
> > > - spend less and less time
'socialising'
> > > - spend long hours focused on
single issues
> > > - our trading rooms are
sensory deprived environments
> > > - undertake intensive problem
solving/creative tasks
> > > - are confronted by our
extreme emotional states etc
> > >
> > > It is possible that intense
traders could eperience trading as
> > > personally transformative
under those conditions and that they
do
> > > experience, or even
cultivate, altered consciousness (to some
> extent)
> > > while actively engaged in
trading.
> > >
> > > Based on the above is there
anything we can do to facilitate
> trading
> > > success?
> > >
> > > Sticking my neck out I
predict super succesful traders would
have
> > > some of the following
habits/qualities:
> > >
> > > - they use positive thinking,
either consciously or otherwise
> (they
> > > almost certainly set
goals)
> > > - they have self-confidence
or self-esteem (if they don't have
it
> > > when they start out they
acquire it)
> > > - they are psychologically
mature & comfortable in their skins
> > > (through other life
experiences - not necessarily only acquired
> > > through academic
success)
> > > - at some time in their life
they have read or thought about the
> > > psychology of life/trading
but it is not really a prominent
part
> of
> > > their daily thinking (they
tend to do it rather than think
about
> it)
> > > - they are not very concerned
with defining their style or over
> > > defining their
trading
> > > - they have rituals (the way
the office is setup, the time of
the
> day
> > > they do certain things) and
they do things in order (download
> data,
> > > scan, add to watchlist etc
)
> > > - they have one trade that
they do over and over (probably they
> have
> > > some spare trades up their
sleeve)
> > > - they have practised their
one trade over and over (like a golf
> > > swing == 10000
repetitions)
> > > - they will be biased to
simplicity and only add complexity
where
> > > they are forced to
> > > - if they have more than one
trade they will use it in a
different
> > > time and place (unless it is
part of a portfolio approach)
> > > - they don't consider their
trade perfect i.e. others might have
> > > something better but it works
for them and they are satisfied
> with it
> > > - their trade is very
personal (like a favourite son or
daughter)
> > > - possibly they don't like to
talk about trading, even the
> extroverts
> > > probably become trading
introverts (the trading ego is like an
> alter
> > > ego that they put on and take
off as they enter and leave the
> trading
> > > room)
> > > - they don't like
interruptions while trading
> > > - trading talk is noise to
them
> > > - they are not as interested
in buying things as they used to be
> > > except stuff for their
trading environment (new computers,
> software
> > > etc)
> > >
> > > Anybody recognise themselves
in there anywhere?
> > >
> > > On a slightly different
note:
> > >
> > > It is rather funny logic that
we would think that all of the
> traders
> > > who are 'in the zone' are
discretionary traders and that all of
> the
> > > other traders don't have the
right stuff OR that there is only
> > > discretionary trading versus
mechanical trading.
> > >
> > > Anyway, any trader who is
consistently successful has the right
> > > mindset even if they/we can't
define it.
> > >
> > > BTW I am not an authority on
anything I just aim to share some
> > > opinions that others may find
authoritive if there is any truth
in
> > > them.
> > >
> > > brian_z *:-)
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:amibroker%40yahoogroups.com>
ps.com,
> "brian_z111"
<brian_z111@>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Jan,
> > >>
> > >> 100,000 repetitions
indeed!
> > >>
> > >> Quite correct.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> However on the subject of
'mindNOT' and Samadhi etc.
> > >>
> > >> There are a lot of
misconceptions floating around in the
> > > west/modern
> > >> culture, on these
subjects, because of the mis-interpretation
of
> > > the
> > >> spiritual tenents of our
BROTHERS OF THE EAST by unqualified
and
> > >> unauthorised
'teachers'.
> > >>
> > >> There is a dirth of true
spiritual teachers in the West, for
> > > reasons
> > >> that I won't go
into.
> > >>
> > >> You are mixing up two
different principles.
> > >>
> > >> In symbolic
terms:
> > >>
> > >> CONSCIOUSNESS wears the
CROWN.
> > >> The objective NOT is the
subjective ALL (THE LOGOS).
> > >>
> > >> You are confusing the
"Son of God" with our "Heavenly Father"
> > >>
> > >> In general Kharma Yoga is
the method for the west/modern
culture
> ==
> > >> the SOUL as an active
principle == GOOD WORKS
> > >>
> > >> Pragmatically:
> > >>
> > >> Don't be concerned about
NoMind - it is not for most of us - a
> very
> > >> abstract subject beyond
the ken of the majority.
> > >>
> > >> NoMind !=
mindlessness
> > >>
> > >> You can't achieve it
because it is not there to be achieved in
> the
> > >> way that you are
conceiving it.
> > >>
> > >> Intuition is what we
should be concerned with.
> > >>
> > >> Intuition is not mind
reading OR an inferior psychic faculty
i.e.
> > >> inferior to the Concete
Mind (objective logic).
> > >> It is not the sixth
sense, although we experience it as if it
is.
> > >> It should be more
correctly known as super-rationality.
> > >> It is our higher mind
(also know as the Higher Self, the
> OverSoul,
> > >> The Solar Angel, Abstract
Mind, Manas).
> > >> It bridges the gap
between Heaven and Earth.
> > >>
> > >> In trading it is most
appropriately used along the lines
> > > of 'positive
> > >> thinking', the 'power of
the mind', 'untapped levels of
> > >> consciousness' etc which
is the popular form of it in the USA
> where
> > >> it is a pseudo-religion
(the reason for that is that it is so
> > > aligned
> > >> to the methods that are
appropriate for the times).
> > >>
> > >> These methods are safe to
use but it is very unfortunate if the
> > >> admonition to do GOOD
WORKS doesn't accompany them.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> In your case; you and
your trading are working well and if it
> ain't
> > >> broke don't fix
it.
> > >>
> > >> Forget your search for
the spiritual Holy Grail of NoMind -
that
> is
> > >> an impossible dream
because it doesn't exist.
> > >>
> > >> I wouldn't worry about
your personal spiritual welfare - you
seem
> > > to
> > >> be sitting quite
pretty.
> > >>
> > >> brian_z *:-)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --- In
amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%
40yahoogroups.com> ps.com,
> "Jan Malmberg" <jan@>
wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi,
> > >>>
> > >>> Well, I had 6 years
of martial arts training, where I
understood
> > >> (but
> > >>> unfortunately not yet
attained) the principle of "no-mind"
when
> > >> executing
> > >>> tasks. I have also
had some limited time as a military
> > > instructor,
> > >> and it
> > >>> became obvious that
during patrol and combat, when people
fire
> at
> > >> you
> > >>> (blanks and smoke
grenades, but still), there ones who make it
> > > are
> > >> the ones
> > >>> who do not take the
time to think.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> However, ones ability
to enter this state of mind is
dependent
> on
> > >> having
> > >>> enough training so
that you subconsciously know that you
really
> > > do
> > >> not have
> > >>> to think about how to
move and shoot properly.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Of the Tekki Shodan
pattern, the ancient warriors said
something
> > > to
> > >> the
> > >>> effect of "Most
patterns require at least 10 000 executions
> > > before
> > >> being
> > >>> mastered. However,
you should not even consider demonstrating
> > > Tekki
> > >> Shodan
> > >>> to your master before
you have had 100 000 repetitions."
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> It is interesting to
note that to reach the original state of
> > > mind
> > >> while
> > >>> carrying out
un-natural activities, you do need lots of
> training,
> > >> and that
> > >>> some things in every
field are a lot more difficult than the
> > >> average task
in
> > >>> that skill
set.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Best regards /
JM
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> _____
> > >>>
> > >>> Från:
amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%
40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
> > > [mailto:amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%
40yahoogroups.com> ps.com]
> > >> För
> > >>> brian_z111
> > >>> Skickat: den 1
augusti 2008 05:32
> > >>> Till:
amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%
40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
> > >>> Ämne: Re: SV:
[amibroker] Anyone actually making money?
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> 3. Level of
spiritual attainment.
> > >>>
> > >>> Semantics plays a
part in any discussion, especially when we
are
> > >>> crossing cultures
etc. It plays a greater role in 'spiritual'
> > >>> discussion than it
does in any other.
> > >>>
> > >>> So, first the
semantics.
> > >>>
> > >>> We are not limited to
the term 'spirituality' as we can talk
> > > around
> > >>> the same area in many
different terms (objective
mind/subjective
> > >>> mind,
rational/intuitive, super-consciousness, super-
rationality
> > >> the
> > >>> collective
unconscious, God, the Soul, the Divine, the Supreme
> > > and
> > >>> millions
more).
> > >>>
> > >>> For ease of
discussion I will stick with 'spirituality'.
> > >>>
> > >>> A few basic
points:
> > >>>
> > >>> - generally the
'spiritual gene' is latent in humanity, across
> > > all
> > >>> cultures
> > >>> - it is more virile
in a small %
> > >>> - it is particularly
latent in the West/modern culture where
we
> > >> have
> > >>> turned our back on
our spirituality
> > >>> - I dare say this
forum has more than its share of latent
> > >>> spirituality under
the surface
> > >>> - the psychic
opposites are not antagonistic forces e.g. soul
> > >> versus
> > >>> body but rather a
complimentary whole so that is not a matter
of
> > >>> logic/programming
trading versus intuitive/discretionary
> trading.
> > >> We
> > >>> are all using both,
at different times and places, even those
> who
> > >>> deny it (there is no
such thing as a 100% objective/rational
> > >> person).
> > >>> - a healthy psyche
has a good balance and flows between each
> > >> psychic
> > >>> pole in its own
season.
> > >>>
> > >>> The main pragmatic
points:
> > >>>
> > >>> - we can't bootstrap
our subjective mind so we have to turn to
> > >>> mentors for written
or oral teaching
> > >>> - some have more
aptitude for it than others
> > >>> - I was very
priviliged to have some experience in these
matters
> > >> long
> > >>> before I started
trading (my subjective consciousness/soul was
> > >>> already active and
able to express itself in the world) but it
> > >> still
> > >>> took years of
pragmatic, practical, objective work
to 'program'
> > > the
> > >>> trading mind to match
i.e. I had to pass a sufficient number
of
> > >>> exams, in the core
units, at the 'University of Trading',
before
> > > I
> > >>> could 'enter the
trading zone'.
> > >>>
> > >>> In laymans terms, my
intuitive mind was functioning but I
still
> > > had
> > >>> to go out and
tediously train my rational/objective mind, and
> > > learn
> > >>> as many of the
objective rules of trading as I could, before
the
> > >>> subjective and the
objective minds could synchronize in the
> > > trading
> > >>> room.
> > >>>
> > >>> "Give unto Caeser
that which is Caesers AND give homage to
your
> > >> God".
> > >>>
> > >>> brian_z
> > >>>
> > >>> --- In
amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%
40yahoogroups.com>
> > >> ps.com,
"Jan
> > >>> Malmberg"
<jan@> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hi,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I sometimes
daytrade using even delayed data for the charts,
> > > and
> > >> a
> > >>> list
> > >>>> compiled list
stored in my broker's web application. It works
> > >>> alright.
Most
> > >>>> of the time I do
short-to-mid-term swing trading. With just
the
> > >> 15-
> > >>> min
> > >>>> delayed data. Ok,
real-time for the indexes.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Here's my
opinion.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The three
components that determine your success are usually:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> 1. Level of
analysis. How good you can produce low-risk
entries
> > >>> with a
> > >>>> probable future
outcome, which of course is never totally
> > >> possible.
> > >>>> 2. Level of money
management. How much you bet on one single
> > >>> trade, how
> > >>>> well you scale
in, scale out, set and stick to stop-orders,
and
> > >>> more.
> > >>>> 3. Level of
spiritual attainment. How much you have attained
> the
> > >>>> "no-mind" state
of the ancient warriors and spiritually
> > > achieved
> > >>> people.
> > >>>> Which means that
you fearlessly execute trades while
> > > maintaining a
> > >>>> risk-appropriate
behavior. Only really possible when you no
> > >> longer
> > >>> fear the
> > >>>> horrible market
and what it might do to you.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Which one is most
important? The one you lack the most at the
> > >>> moment. I
was
> > >>>> fortunate to
start out with fairly solid money management
from
> > >> the
> > >>> start.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Best regards /
JM
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> _____
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> From:
amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%
40yahoogroups.com>
> > >> ps.com
> > >>> [mailto:amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%
40yahoogroups.com>
> > >> ps.com]
> > >>> On Behalf
> > >>>> Of Louis
P.
> > >>>> Sent: Thursday,
31 July 2008 2:15 PM
> > >>>> To:
amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%40yahoogroups.com>
> > >> ps.com
> > >>>> Subject:
[amibroker] Anyone actually making money?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hi,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I was only
wondering... Anyone actually making money or
making
> > > a
> > >>> living
> > >>>> with AB and
trading?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I've been working
on ideas and plans for over 7 months now
and
> > >>> didn't
find
> > >>>> anything
convincing yet. I've been searching daily data, then
> > >>> hourly,
> > >>>> 15-minute and now
I am into 1-minute data and nothing seems
> > >>>
satisfying.
> > >>>> Been searching
RSI, MFI, ADX, MA, HHV, LLV... nothing seems
to
> > >> work.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> So... Anyone is
making consistent money with this, and if so,
> > > at
> > >>> which
> > >>>> timeframe and how
do you do it?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I'm beginning to
think about switching to tick database; it
> > > seems
> > >>> even
> > >>>> 1-minute is too
slow for intraday trading. Anyone making
money
> > >> with
> > >>>>
1-minute?
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
Thanks,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Louis
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Please note that this group
is for discussion between users
only.
> > >
> > > To get support from AmiBroker
please send an e-mail directly to
> > > SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
> > >
> > > For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS
and other news always check
DEVLOG:
> > > http://www.amibroke <http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/>
r.com/devlog/
> > >
> > > For other support material
please check also:
> > > http://www.amibroke <http://www.amibroker.com/support.html>
> r.com/support.html
> > > Yahoo! Groups
Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> |