|
Jan,
Since I started using my auto trading program (actually Barry's program), I still have the emotional feelings to trade. However, since I am not watching the market like I did before. I am not as tempted to trade. That trade that I wrote about is now showing almost $3000 profit and I wanted to sell at $1100 profit and again at $1500 profit. This is so much easier. I was sleeping when it traded this trade. Well, it didn't actually trade it due to a problem which I have corrected, but my cell rang and woke me up. I checked the charts and made the trade manually. Remember that I only make about 5 or 6 trades a month so it is perfect for me.
Still, the stress level is almost none existant.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: Jan Malmberg
To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 9:52 AM
Subject: SV: SV: SV: SV: [amibroker] Anyone actually making money?
To me, the hardest part of discretionary Elliott Wave trading is that – well, apart from finding the right pattern – is that very often when I am right, I am tempted to close profits too early. This has led to me using two sets of stoporders, initially using a critical level which breaks the pattern, and then using a trailing stop order once the breakout of the accumulation pattern occurs. Since I also had a problem with re-buying stocks that took out a minor formation, but then moved in the previously anticipated direction, I have started to implement a re-buy rule. Unfortunately, it has been hard to use it to its fullest. But I will get there.
What I am trying to say is that I am also using rules and trigger levels, although not in an automated fashion, and it is probably not really what you would call a trading system.
Best regards / JM
Från: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] För Jan Malmberg
Skickat: den 5 augusti 2008 18:34
Till: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Ämne: SV: SV: SV: SV: [amibroker] Anyone actually making money?
And my discretionary/manual Elliott Wave-system gave me buy signal at OMXS30 865,25, which was contrary to my opinion on where we would go. Nice profits today. However, more training is required. Best regards / JM
Från: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] För professor77747
Skickat: den 5 augusti 2008 17:32
Till: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Ämne: Re: SV: SV: SV: [amibroker] Anyone actually making money?
Originally, in this thread, comments were made about how your
temperment and personality would affect your trading results. I have
a trading program that I have tested both with backtesting and actual
trading for about a year. I have been perfecting it for several
years.
Despite the fact that I believe that it works and have actually
traded it and seen it work very profitably, I still have a hard time
sticking to it. Which is why I am now autotrading it so that I don't
have to make the decisions.
However, I am not sticking to it like I should. In my last few
trades, I traded when I was sure the market would change only to be
proven wrong and my program correct. One my current gold futures
short trade, I was up $1100 and was sure that gold was going up
because it had dropped so far. I wanted to sell. My program didn't
sell and I was determined to follow my program. Then gold dropped
again and I was up $1700. This morning, gold went up and I didn't
have a cover signal. I was now up only $1500. I knew that gold was on
its way up. I actually had a buy order entered when my wife said that
I should follow my program and let the program auto trade. I was sure
that gold was on its way up and I was sure that I would lose so of my
profit. Then I decided to wait. Gold went down again and I am up
$2600 as I write this.
My point is that emotions, greed, risk tolerance, and other factors
will affect your trading profits.
Tom
--- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Jan Malmberg" <jan@xxx> wrote:
>
> Thank you for some interesting posts. Much of it is so "obvious"
that it is
> easy to forget it. Best regards / JM
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Från: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
För
> brian_z111
> Skickat: den 5 augusti 2008 04:47
> Till: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Ämne: Re: SV: SV: [amibroker] Anyone actually making money?
>
>
>
> Quite right.
>
> Virtuality is the environment.
>
> It enhances and shapes the experience.
>
> I believe we can safely 'take the shortcut' if we are consciously
> aware of what is involved (psychologically) and assist the process
> i.e. to build our trading ALTER EGO by repetition. That is why it
is
> essential to settle on a market, a timeframe, a system etc (that
> includes if making discretionary choices is the system) even if
they
> aren't the perfect choice.
>
> example:
>
> There is Tiger Woods the Golfer and Tiger Woods the Man.
>
> The golfing alter ego has been built over a long period by
isolating
> the key skills and then practising them continually.
> When he steps on the golf course the alter ego goes onto auto-pilot
> (not a religious experience as such but an alternative
consciousness,
> or sub-consciousness, for sure).
>
> Once we have spent a long time on one market/timeframe/system the
TAE
> will be quite strong and we can then move to another Mkt/T/S and
> adapt very quickly (I did that by moving to intraday stocks after
> years of EOD stocks and picked it up to a reasonable level in a few
> days - and I changed systems to suit the RT market too).
>
> brian_z
>
> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%40yahoogroups.com>
ps.com,
> Dennis Brown <see3d@> wrote:
> >
> > ~yes~
> >
> > Also, once you realize the true nature of our "virtual" reality,
> you
> > can start playing with Monopoly money.
> >
> > ~dennis
> >
> > On Aug 4, 2008, at 8:38 PM, brian_z111 wrote:
> >
> > > FTR
> > > I don't know how people can tranlate this into applied Trading
> > > Psychology but to set the record straight.
> > >
> > > Re the relevance of spirituality/personal development to
trading:
> > >
> > > Using Indian spiritual philosophy as the example.
> > >
> > > There is no single philosophy but rather a myriad of inter-
related
> > > and sometimes conflicting ones.
> > > However, as a generalisation, the ideals of Indian spirituality
> are
> > > passive (to a Westerner) and can be summarised as:
> > >
> > > - Man is a small replica of God (potentially)
> > > - the goal is to sublimate the mind of Man to the mind of God
> (Yoga
> > > is the union of Man-God)
> > > - various practices are used to faclitate this (meditation,
> prayer,
> > > singing/chanting, dancing etc)
> > > - permanancy of the union is a long and difficult goal, seldom
> > > achieved
> > > - temporary intimacy with the Gods, achieved via spiritual
> practices,
> > > TRANSFORMS the practitioner and hence their culture
> > > - psyhic powers (Siddhi) are a byproduct and considered a
> distraction
> > > and/or dangerous
> > > - worldly success is considered somewhat of lesser value than
> > > spiritual success
> > >
> > > "From the Unreal lead me to the Real".
> > >
> > > Once again these are gross simplifications which have been
> vigorously
> > > debated for thousands of years.
> > >
> > > Western spirituality is active.
> > > We seek to "petition the Lord" to intervene in our
lifes/culture
> and
> > > to give us the Power(s), ostensibly to do his work.
> > >
> > > In both cases the spiritual path is the same, except that the
> > > emphasis is different, however all variations on the theme are
> > > operative in both cultures, via their sub-cultures.
> > >
> > >
> > > Applying this to trading:
> > >
> > > Will adopting spiritual practices, say meditation, or prayer,
> make me
> > > a better trader?
> > >
> > > Is there any correspondence between the transcendental
> consciousness
> > > of meditation/prayer and the mindset that successful traders
have
> > > (assuming there is such a thing as a common identifiable traders
> > > mindset)?
> > >
> > > Possibly.
> > >
> > > In my own experience, if I had any advantages in this area when
I
> > > started out trading i.e. I did "know myself" before I started
> > > trading, I still had to get to know the markets, TA, my broker,
> data
> > > provider and software etc as well.
> > >
> > >
> > > Re 'Positive Thinking' and 'The Power of The Mind'
> > >
> > > This has been borrowed from spiritual teachings (power of
Prayer
> etc).
> > >
> > > This is an application of a limited part of spirituality, and
> without
> > > the attendant ethics etc it can bring about Worldly Success but
> that
> > > doesn't neccessarily equate to Life Success i.e. it is a partial
> > > spiritual practice without the full experience or spiritual
> knowledge.
> > >
> > >
> > > Is there a mindset that successful traders have (as claimed by
> Mark
> > > Douglas "In The Trading Zone")?
> > >
> > > Possibly, or Mark could have just found a good way to make some
> money
> > > OR be projecting his personal needs/worldview onto the trading
> world.
> > >
> > > As a hypothesis (a lot of traders say that trading changed the
way
> > > they think i.e trading changed THEM).
> > >
> > > In my experience we tend to:
> > >
> > > - spend more and more time alone in the trading room
> > > - spend less and less time 'socialising'
> > > - spend long hours focused on single issues
> > > - our trading rooms are sensory deprived environments
> > > - undertake intensive problem solving/creative tasks
> > > - are confronted by our extreme emotional states etc
> > >
> > > It is possible that intense traders could eperience trading as
> > > personally transformative under those conditions and that they
do
> > > experience, or even cultivate, altered consciousness (to some
> extent)
> > > while actively engaged in trading.
> > >
> > > Based on the above is there anything we can do to facilitate
> trading
> > > success?
> > >
> > > Sticking my neck out I predict super succesful traders would
have
> > > some of the following habits/qualities:
> > >
> > > - they use positive thinking, either consciously or otherwise
> (they
> > > almost certainly set goals)
> > > - they have self-confidence or self-esteem (if they don't have
it
> > > when they start out they acquire it)
> > > - they are psychologically mature & comfortable in their skins
> > > (through other life experiences - not necessarily only acquired
> > > through academic success)
> > > - at some time in their life they have read or thought about the
> > > psychology of life/trading but it is not really a prominent
part
> of
> > > their daily thinking (they tend to do it rather than think
about
> it)
> > > - they are not very concerned with defining their style or over
> > > defining their trading
> > > - they have rituals (the way the office is setup, the time of
the
> day
> > > they do certain things) and they do things in order (download
> data,
> > > scan, add to watchlist etc )
> > > - they have one trade that they do over and over (probably they
> have
> > > some spare trades up their sleeve)
> > > - they have practised their one trade over and over (like a golf
> > > swing == 10000 repetitions)
> > > - they will be biased to simplicity and only add complexity
where
> > > they are forced to
> > > - if they have more than one trade they will use it in a
different
> > > time and place (unless it is part of a portfolio approach)
> > > - they don't consider their trade perfect i.e. others might have
> > > something better but it works for them and they are satisfied
> with it
> > > - their trade is very personal (like a favourite son or
daughter)
> > > - possibly they don't like to talk about trading, even the
> extroverts
> > > probably become trading introverts (the trading ego is like an
> alter
> > > ego that they put on and take off as they enter and leave the
> trading
> > > room)
> > > - they don't like interruptions while trading
> > > - trading talk is noise to them
> > > - they are not as interested in buying things as they used to be
> > > except stuff for their trading environment (new computers,
> software
> > > etc)
> > >
> > > Anybody recognise themselves in there anywhere?
> > >
> > > On a slightly different note:
> > >
> > > It is rather funny logic that we would think that all of the
> traders
> > > who are 'in the zone' are discretionary traders and that all of
> the
> > > other traders don't have the right stuff OR that there is only
> > > discretionary trading versus mechanical trading.
> > >
> > > Anyway, any trader who is consistently successful has the right
> > > mindset even if they/we can't define it.
> > >
> > > BTW I am not an authority on anything I just aim to share some
> > > opinions that others may find authoritive if there is any truth
in
> > > them.
> > >
> > > brian_z *:-)
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%40yahoogroups.com>
ps.com,
> "brian_z111" <brian_z111@>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Jan,
> > >>
> > >> 100,000 repetitions indeed!
> > >>
> > >> Quite correct.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> However on the subject of 'mindNOT' and Samadhi etc.
> > >>
> > >> There are a lot of misconceptions floating around in the
> > > west/modern
> > >> culture, on these subjects, because of the mis-interpretation
of
> > > the
> > >> spiritual tenents of our BROTHERS OF THE EAST by unqualified
and
> > >> unauthorised 'teachers'.
> > >>
> > >> There is a dirth of true spiritual teachers in the West, for
> > > reasons
> > >> that I won't go into.
> > >>
> > >> You are mixing up two different principles.
> > >>
> > >> In symbolic terms:
> > >>
> > >> CONSCIOUSNESS wears the CROWN.
> > >> The objective NOT is the subjective ALL (THE LOGOS).
> > >>
> > >> You are confusing the "Son of God" with our "Heavenly Father"
> > >>
> > >> In general Kharma Yoga is the method for the west/modern
culture
> ==
> > >> the SOUL as an active principle == GOOD WORKS
> > >>
> > >> Pragmatically:
> > >>
> > >> Don't be concerned about NoMind - it is not for most of us - a
> very
> > >> abstract subject beyond the ken of the majority.
> > >>
> > >> NoMind != mindlessness
> > >>
> > >> You can't achieve it because it is not there to be achieved in
> the
> > >> way that you are conceiving it.
> > >>
> > >> Intuition is what we should be concerned with.
> > >>
> > >> Intuition is not mind reading OR an inferior psychic faculty
i.e.
> > >> inferior to the Concete Mind (objective logic).
> > >> It is not the sixth sense, although we experience it as if it
is.
> > >> It should be more correctly known as super-rationality.
> > >> It is our higher mind (also know as the Higher Self, the
> OverSoul,
> > >> The Solar Angel, Abstract Mind, Manas).
> > >> It bridges the gap between Heaven and Earth.
> > >>
> > >> In trading it is most appropriately used along the lines
> > > of 'positive
> > >> thinking', the 'power of the mind', 'untapped levels of
> > >> consciousness' etc which is the popular form of it in the USA
> where
> > >> it is a pseudo-religion (the reason for that is that it is so
> > > aligned
> > >> to the methods that are appropriate for the times).
> > >>
> > >> These methods are safe to use but it is very unfortunate if the
> > >> admonition to do GOOD WORKS doesn't accompany them.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> In your case; you and your trading are working well and if it
> ain't
> > >> broke don't fix it.
> > >>
> > >> Forget your search for the spiritual Holy Grail of NoMind -
that
> is
> > >> an impossible dream because it doesn't exist.
> > >>
> > >> I wouldn't worry about your personal spiritual welfare - you
seem
> > > to
> > >> be sitting quite pretty.
> > >>
> > >> brian_z *:-)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%
40yahoogroups.com> ps.com,
> "Jan Malmberg" <jan@> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi,
> > >>>
> > >>> Well, I had 6 years of martial arts training, where I
understood
> > >> (but
> > >>> unfortunately not yet attained) the principle of "no-mind"
when
> > >> executing
> > >>> tasks. I have also had some limited time as a military
> > > instructor,
> > >> and it
> > >>> became obvious that during patrol and combat, when people
fire
> at
> > >> you
> > >>> (blanks and smoke grenades, but still), there ones who make it
> > > are
> > >> the ones
> > >>> who do not take the time to think.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> However, ones ability to enter this state of mind is
dependent
> on
> > >> having
> > >>> enough training so that you subconsciously know that you
really
> > > do
> > >> not have
> > >>> to think about how to move and shoot properly.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Of the Tekki Shodan pattern, the ancient warriors said
something
> > > to
> > >> the
> > >>> effect of "Most patterns require at least 10 000 executions
> > > before
> > >> being
> > >>> mastered. However, you should not even consider demonstrating
> > > Tekki
> > >> Shodan
> > >>> to your master before you have had 100 000 repetitions."
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> It is interesting to note that to reach the original state of
> > > mind
> > >> while
> > >>> carrying out un-natural activities, you do need lots of
> training,
> > >> and that
> > >>> some things in every field are a lot more difficult than the
> > >> average task in
> > >>> that skill set.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Best regards / JM
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> _____
> > >>>
> > >>> Från: amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%
40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
> > > [mailto:amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%
40yahoogroups.com> ps.com]
> > >> För
> > >>> brian_z111
> > >>> Skickat: den 1 augusti 2008 05:32
> > >>> Till: amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%
40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
> > >>> Ämne: Re: SV: [amibroker] Anyone actually making money?
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> 3. Level of spiritual attainment.
> > >>>
> > >>> Semantics plays a part in any discussion, especially when we
are
> > >>> crossing cultures etc. It plays a greater role in 'spiritual'
> > >>> discussion than it does in any other.
> > >>>
> > >>> So, first the semantics.
> > >>>
> > >>> We are not limited to the term 'spirituality' as we can talk
> > > around
> > >>> the same area in many different terms (objective
mind/subjective
> > >>> mind, rational/intuitive, super-consciousness, super-
rationality
> > >> the
> > >>> collective unconscious, God, the Soul, the Divine, the Supreme
> > > and
> > >>> millions more).
> > >>>
> > >>> For ease of discussion I will stick with 'spirituality'.
> > >>>
> > >>> A few basic points:
> > >>>
> > >>> - generally the 'spiritual gene' is latent in humanity, across
> > > all
> > >>> cultures
> > >>> - it is more virile in a small %
> > >>> - it is particularly latent in the West/modern culture where
we
> > >> have
> > >>> turned our back on our spirituality
> > >>> - I dare say this forum has more than its share of latent
> > >>> spirituality under the surface
> > >>> - the psychic opposites are not antagonistic forces e.g. soul
> > >> versus
> > >>> body but rather a complimentary whole so that is not a matter
of
> > >>> logic/programming trading versus intuitive/discretionary
> trading.
> > >> We
> > >>> are all using both, at different times and places, even those
> who
> > >>> deny it (there is no such thing as a 100% objective/rational
> > >> person).
> > >>> - a healthy psyche has a good balance and flows between each
> > >> psychic
> > >>> pole in its own season.
> > >>>
> > >>> The main pragmatic points:
> > >>>
> > >>> - we can't bootstrap our subjective mind so we have to turn to
> > >>> mentors for written or oral teaching
> > >>> - some have more aptitude for it than others
> > >>> - I was very priviliged to have some experience in these
matters
> > >> long
> > >>> before I started trading (my subjective consciousness/soul was
> > >>> already active and able to express itself in the world) but it
> > >> still
> > >>> took years of pragmatic, practical, objective work
to 'program'
> > > the
> > >>> trading mind to match i.e. I had to pass a sufficient number
of
> > >>> exams, in the core units, at the 'University of Trading',
before
> > > I
> > >>> could 'enter the trading zone'.
> > >>>
> > >>> In laymans terms, my intuitive mind was functioning but I
still
> > > had
> > >>> to go out and tediously train my rational/objective mind, and
> > > learn
> > >>> as many of the objective rules of trading as I could, before
the
> > >>> subjective and the objective minds could synchronize in the
> > > trading
> > >>> room.
> > >>>
> > >>> "Give unto Caeser that which is Caesers AND give homage to
your
> > >> God".
> > >>>
> > >>> brian_z
> > >>>
> > >>> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%
40yahoogroups.com>
> > >> ps.com, "Jan
> > >>> Malmberg" <jan@> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hi,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I sometimes daytrade using even delayed data for the charts,
> > > and
> > >> a
> > >>> list
> > >>>> compiled list stored in my broker's web application. It works
> > >>> alright. Most
> > >>>> of the time I do short-to-mid-term swing trading. With just
the
> > >> 15-
> > >>> min
> > >>>> delayed data. Ok, real-time for the indexes.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Here's my opinion.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The three components that determine your success are usually:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> 1. Level of analysis. How good you can produce low-risk
entries
> > >>> with a
> > >>>> probable future outcome, which of course is never totally
> > >> possible.
> > >>>> 2. Level of money management. How much you bet on one single
> > >>> trade, how
> > >>>> well you scale in, scale out, set and stick to stop-orders,
and
> > >>> more.
> > >>>> 3. Level of spiritual attainment. How much you have attained
> the
> > >>>> "no-mind" state of the ancient warriors and spiritually
> > > achieved
> > >>> people.
> > >>>> Which means that you fearlessly execute trades while
> > > maintaining a
> > >>>> risk-appropriate behavior. Only really possible when you no
> > >> longer
> > >>> fear the
> > >>>> horrible market and what it might do to you.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Which one is most important? The one you lack the most at the
> > >>> moment. I was
> > >>>> fortunate to start out with fairly solid money management
from
> > >> the
> > >>> start.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Best regards / JM
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> _____
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> From: amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%
40yahoogroups.com>
> > >> ps.com
> > >>> [mailto:amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%
40yahoogroups.com>
> > >> ps.com]
> > >>> On Behalf
> > >>>> Of Louis P.
> > >>>> Sent: Thursday, 31 July 2008 2:15 PM
> > >>>> To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%40yahoogroups.com>
> > >> ps.com
> > >>>> Subject: [amibroker] Anyone actually making money?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hi,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I was only wondering... Anyone actually making money or
making
> > > a
> > >>> living
> > >>>> with AB and trading?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I've been working on ideas and plans for over 7 months now
and
> > >>> didn't find
> > >>>> anything convincing yet. I've been searching daily data, then
> > >>> hourly,
> > >>>> 15-minute and now I am into 1-minute data and nothing seems
> > >>> satisfying.
> > >>>> Been searching RSI, MFI, ADX, MA, HHV, LLV... nothing seems
to
> > >> work.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> So... Anyone is making consistent money with this, and if so,
> > > at
> > >>> which
> > >>>> timeframe and how do you do it?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I'm beginning to think about switching to tick database; it
> > > seems
> > >>> even
> > >>>> 1-minute is too slow for intraday trading. Anyone making
money
> > >> with
> > >>>> 1-minute?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Louis
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Please note that this group is for discussion between users
only.
> > >
> > > To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly to
> > > SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
> > >
> > > For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check
DEVLOG:
> > > http://www.amibroke <http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/>
r.com/devlog/
> > >
> > > For other support material please check also:
> > > http://www.amibroke <http://www.amibroker.com/support.html>
> r.com/support.html
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
|