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~yes~
Also, once you realize the true nature of our "virtual" reality, you
can start playing with Monopoly money.
~dennis
On Aug 4, 2008, at 8:38 PM, brian_z111 wrote:
> FTR
> I don't know how people can tranlate this into applied Trading
> Psychology but to set the record straight.
>
> Re the relevance of spirituality/personal development to trading:
>
> Using Indian spiritual philosophy as the example.
>
> There is no single philosophy but rather a myriad of inter-related
> and sometimes conflicting ones.
> However, as a generalisation, the ideals of Indian spirituality are
> passive (to a Westerner) and can be summarised as:
>
> - Man is a small replica of God (potentially)
> - the goal is to sublimate the mind of Man to the mind of God (Yoga
> is the union of Man-God)
> - various practices are used to faclitate this (meditation, prayer,
> singing/chanting, dancing etc)
> - permanancy of the union is a long and difficult goal, seldom
> achieved
> - temporary intimacy with the Gods, achieved via spiritual practices,
> TRANSFORMS the practitioner and hence their culture
> - psyhic powers (Siddhi) are a byproduct and considered a distraction
> and/or dangerous
> - worldly success is considered somewhat of lesser value than
> spiritual success
>
> "From the Unreal lead me to the Real".
>
> Once again these are gross simplifications which have been vigorously
> debated for thousands of years.
>
> Western spirituality is active.
> We seek to "petition the Lord" to intervene in our lifes/culture and
> to give us the Power(s), ostensibly to do his work.
>
> In both cases the spiritual path is the same, except that the
> emphasis is different, however all variations on the theme are
> operative in both cultures, via their sub-cultures.
>
>
> Applying this to trading:
>
> Will adopting spiritual practices, say meditation, or prayer, make me
> a better trader?
>
> Is there any correspondence between the transcendental consciousness
> of meditation/prayer and the mindset that successful traders have
> (assuming there is such a thing as a common identifiable traders
> mindset)?
>
> Possibly.
>
> In my own experience, if I had any advantages in this area when I
> started out trading i.e. I did "know myself" before I started
> trading, I still had to get to know the markets, TA, my broker, data
> provider and software etc as well.
>
>
> Re 'Positive Thinking' and 'The Power of The Mind'
>
> This has been borrowed from spiritual teachings (power of Prayer etc).
>
> This is an application of a limited part of spirituality, and without
> the attendant ethics etc it can bring about Worldly Success but that
> doesn't neccessarily equate to Life Success i.e. it is a partial
> spiritual practice without the full experience or spiritual knowledge.
>
>
> Is there a mindset that successful traders have (as claimed by Mark
> Douglas "In The Trading Zone")?
>
> Possibly, or Mark could have just found a good way to make some money
> OR be projecting his personal needs/worldview onto the trading world.
>
> As a hypothesis (a lot of traders say that trading changed the way
> they think i.e trading changed THEM).
>
> In my experience we tend to:
>
> - spend more and more time alone in the trading room
> - spend less and less time 'socialising'
> - spend long hours focused on single issues
> - our trading rooms are sensory deprived environments
> - undertake intensive problem solving/creative tasks
> - are confronted by our extreme emotional states etc
>
> It is possible that intense traders could eperience trading as
> personally transformative under those conditions and that they do
> experience, or even cultivate, altered consciousness (to some extent)
> while actively engaged in trading.
>
> Based on the above is there anything we can do to facilitate trading
> success?
>
> Sticking my neck out I predict super succesful traders would have
> some of the following habits/qualities:
>
> - they use positive thinking, either consciously or otherwise (they
> almost certainly set goals)
> - they have self-confidence or self-esteem (if they don't have it
> when they start out they acquire it)
> - they are psychologically mature & comfortable in their skins
> (through other life experiences - not necessarily only acquired
> through academic success)
> - at some time in their life they have read or thought about the
> psychology of life/trading but it is not really a prominent part of
> their daily thinking (they tend to do it rather than think about it)
> - they are not very concerned with defining their style or over
> defining their trading
> - they have rituals (the way the office is setup, the time of the day
> they do certain things) and they do things in order (download data,
> scan, add to watchlist etc )
> - they have one trade that they do over and over (probably they have
> some spare trades up their sleeve)
> - they have practised their one trade over and over (like a golf
> swing == 10000 repetitions)
> - they will be biased to simplicity and only add complexity where
> they are forced to
> - if they have more than one trade they will use it in a different
> time and place (unless it is part of a portfolio approach)
> - they don't consider their trade perfect i.e. others might have
> something better but it works for them and they are satisfied with it
> - their trade is very personal (like a favourite son or daughter)
> - possibly they don't like to talk about trading, even the extroverts
> probably become trading introverts (the trading ego is like an alter
> ego that they put on and take off as they enter and leave the trading
> room)
> - they don't like interruptions while trading
> - trading talk is noise to them
> - they are not as interested in buying things as they used to be
> except stuff for their trading environment (new computers, software
> etc)
>
> Anybody recognise themselves in there anywhere?
>
> On a slightly different note:
>
> It is rather funny logic that we would think that all of the traders
> who are 'in the zone' are discretionary traders and that all of the
> other traders don't have the right stuff OR that there is only
> discretionary trading versus mechanical trading.
>
> Anyway, any trader who is consistently successful has the right
> mindset even if they/we can't define it.
>
> BTW I am not an authority on anything I just aim to share some
> opinions that others may find authoritive if there is any truth in
> them.
>
> brian_z *:-)
>
>
> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "brian_z111" <brian_z111@xxx> wrote:
>>
>> Jan,
>>
>> 100,000 repetitions indeed!
>>
>> Quite correct.
>>
>>
>>
>> However on the subject of 'mindNOT' and Samadhi etc.
>>
>> There are a lot of misconceptions floating around in the
> west/modern
>> culture, on these subjects, because of the mis-interpretation of
> the
>> spiritual tenents of our BROTHERS OF THE EAST by unqualified and
>> unauthorised 'teachers'.
>>
>> There is a dirth of true spiritual teachers in the West, for
> reasons
>> that I won't go into.
>>
>> You are mixing up two different principles.
>>
>> In symbolic terms:
>>
>> CONSCIOUSNESS wears the CROWN.
>> The objective NOT is the subjective ALL (THE LOGOS).
>>
>> You are confusing the "Son of God" with our "Heavenly Father"
>>
>> In general Kharma Yoga is the method for the west/modern culture ==
>> the SOUL as an active principle == GOOD WORKS
>>
>> Pragmatically:
>>
>> Don't be concerned about NoMind - it is not for most of us - a very
>> abstract subject beyond the ken of the majority.
>>
>> NoMind != mindlessness
>>
>> You can't achieve it because it is not there to be achieved in the
>> way that you are conceiving it.
>>
>> Intuition is what we should be concerned with.
>>
>> Intuition is not mind reading OR an inferior psychic faculty i.e.
>> inferior to the Concete Mind (objective logic).
>> It is not the sixth sense, although we experience it as if it is.
>> It should be more correctly known as super-rationality.
>> It is our higher mind (also know as the Higher Self, the OverSoul,
>> The Solar Angel, Abstract Mind, Manas).
>> It bridges the gap between Heaven and Earth.
>>
>> In trading it is most appropriately used along the lines
> of 'positive
>> thinking', the 'power of the mind', 'untapped levels of
>> consciousness' etc which is the popular form of it in the USA where
>> it is a pseudo-religion (the reason for that is that it is so
> aligned
>> to the methods that are appropriate for the times).
>>
>> These methods are safe to use but it is very unfortunate if the
>> admonition to do GOOD WORKS doesn't accompany them.
>>
>>
>> In your case; you and your trading are working well and if it ain't
>> broke don't fix it.
>>
>> Forget your search for the spiritual Holy Grail of NoMind - that is
>> an impossible dream because it doesn't exist.
>>
>> I wouldn't worry about your personal spiritual welfare - you seem
> to
>> be sitting quite pretty.
>>
>> brian_z *:-)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Jan Malmberg" <jan@> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Well, I had 6 years of martial arts training, where I understood
>> (but
>>> unfortunately not yet attained) the principle of "no-mind" when
>> executing
>>> tasks. I have also had some limited time as a military
> instructor,
>> and it
>>> became obvious that during patrol and combat, when people fire at
>> you
>>> (blanks and smoke grenades, but still), there ones who make it
> are
>> the ones
>>> who do not take the time to think.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> However, ones ability to enter this state of mind is dependent on
>> having
>>> enough training so that you subconsciously know that you really
> do
>> not have
>>> to think about how to move and shoot properly.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Of the Tekki Shodan pattern, the ancient warriors said something
> to
>> the
>>> effect of "Most patterns require at least 10 000 executions
> before
>> being
>>> mastered. However, you should not even consider demonstrating
> Tekki
>> Shodan
>>> to your master before you have had 100 000 repetitions."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It is interesting to note that to reach the original state of
> mind
>> while
>>> carrying out un-natural activities, you do need lots of training,
>> and that
>>> some things in every field are a lot more difficult than the
>> average task in
>>> that skill set.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards / JM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _____
>>>
>>> Från: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>> För
>>> brian_z111
>>> Skickat: den 1 augusti 2008 05:32
>>> Till: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Ämne: Re: SV: [amibroker] Anyone actually making money?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> 3. Level of spiritual attainment.
>>>
>>> Semantics plays a part in any discussion, especially when we are
>>> crossing cultures etc. It plays a greater role in 'spiritual'
>>> discussion than it does in any other.
>>>
>>> So, first the semantics.
>>>
>>> We are not limited to the term 'spirituality' as we can talk
> around
>>> the same area in many different terms (objective mind/subjective
>>> mind, rational/intuitive, super-consciousness, super-rationality
>> the
>>> collective unconscious, God, the Soul, the Divine, the Supreme
> and
>>> millions more).
>>>
>>> For ease of discussion I will stick with 'spirituality'.
>>>
>>> A few basic points:
>>>
>>> - generally the 'spiritual gene' is latent in humanity, across
> all
>>> cultures
>>> - it is more virile in a small %
>>> - it is particularly latent in the West/modern culture where we
>> have
>>> turned our back on our spirituality
>>> - I dare say this forum has more than its share of latent
>>> spirituality under the surface
>>> - the psychic opposites are not antagonistic forces e.g. soul
>> versus
>>> body but rather a complimentary whole so that is not a matter of
>>> logic/programming trading versus intuitive/discretionary trading.
>> We
>>> are all using both, at different times and places, even those who
>>> deny it (there is no such thing as a 100% objective/rational
>> person).
>>> - a healthy psyche has a good balance and flows between each
>> psychic
>>> pole in its own season.
>>>
>>> The main pragmatic points:
>>>
>>> - we can't bootstrap our subjective mind so we have to turn to
>>> mentors for written or oral teaching
>>> - some have more aptitude for it than others
>>> - I was very priviliged to have some experience in these matters
>> long
>>> before I started trading (my subjective consciousness/soul was
>>> already active and able to express itself in the world) but it
>> still
>>> took years of pragmatic, practical, objective work to 'program'
> the
>>> trading mind to match i.e. I had to pass a sufficient number of
>>> exams, in the core units, at the 'University of Trading', before
> I
>>> could 'enter the trading zone'.
>>>
>>> In laymans terms, my intuitive mind was functioning but I still
> had
>>> to go out and tediously train my rational/objective mind, and
> learn
>>> as many of the objective rules of trading as I could, before the
>>> subjective and the objective minds could synchronize in the
> trading
>>> room.
>>>
>>> "Give unto Caeser that which is Caesers AND give homage to your
>> God".
>>>
>>> brian_z
>>>
>>> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%40yahoogroups.com>
>> ps.com, "Jan
>>> Malmberg" <jan@> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I sometimes daytrade using even delayed data for the charts,
> and
>> a
>>> list
>>>> compiled list stored in my broker's web application. It works
>>> alright. Most
>>>> of the time I do short-to-mid-term swing trading. With just the
>> 15-
>>> min
>>>> delayed data. Ok, real-time for the indexes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here's my opinion.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The three components that determine your success are usually:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Level of analysis. How good you can produce low-risk entries
>>> with a
>>>> probable future outcome, which of course is never totally
>> possible.
>>>> 2. Level of money management. How much you bet on one single
>>> trade, how
>>>> well you scale in, scale out, set and stick to stop-orders, and
>>> more.
>>>> 3. Level of spiritual attainment. How much you have attained the
>>>> "no-mind" state of the ancient warriors and spiritually
> achieved
>>> people.
>>>> Which means that you fearlessly execute trades while
> maintaining a
>>>> risk-appropriate behavior. Only really possible when you no
>> longer
>>> fear the
>>>> horrible market and what it might do to you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Which one is most important? The one you lack the most at the
>>> moment. I was
>>>> fortunate to start out with fairly solid money management from
>> the
>>> start.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best regards / JM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _____
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%40yahoogroups.com>
>> ps.com
>>> [mailto:amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%40yahoogroups.com>
>> ps.com]
>>> On Behalf
>>>> Of Louis P.
>>>> Sent: Thursday, 31 July 2008 2:15 PM
>>>> To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%40yahoogroups.com>
>> ps.com
>>>> Subject: [amibroker] Anyone actually making money?
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I was only wondering... Anyone actually making money or making
> a
>>> living
>>>> with AB and trading?
>>>>
>>>> I've been working on ideas and plans for over 7 months now and
>>> didn't find
>>>> anything convincing yet. I've been searching daily data, then
>>> hourly,
>>>> 15-minute and now I am into 1-minute data and nothing seems
>>> satisfying.
>>>> Been searching RSI, MFI, ADX, MA, HHV, LLV... nothing seems to
>> work.
>>>>
>>>> So... Anyone is making consistent money with this, and if so,
> at
>>> which
>>>> timeframe and how do you do it?
>>>>
>>>> I'm beginning to think about switching to tick database; it
> seems
>>> even
>>>> 1-minute is too slow for intraday trading. Anyone making money
>> with
>>>> 1-minute?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Louis
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
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