Re: [amibroker] Re: Anyone actually making money?, AmiBroker Email List Archive

I am not a system trader but a discretionary trader so whatever I will say is from that side of things.

[a] The best indicator is price action. Anyone who can read price action is a real master analyst. I say analyst because being a great analyst is not a guarantee for being even a mediocre trader. When you have money on the line the psychology is very different. Some people (ME included and I am not even a good analyst , I just get along) are often hoping against hope that their mistakes will somehow sort themselves out or we might just get that extra couple of percentage points to make the transaction rate of return even more generous instead of pulling the plug with surgical precision. So for me the goal is to be able to read price action and act on it based on what the chart says, not letting my fears/greed cloud my judgement.

[b] Since I can not read price action to the extent I want to, I use crutches, Indicators. To be able to make money from indicators , understand one basic fact. Indicators dont make you money, price action does. Indicators can only say this to you "You might have a possible trade here". The trade SHOULD be made IF AND ONLY IF the price action confirms what the indicators are saying.

[c] To get to stage [b] I needed screen time, loads of it. It helped me understand a particular indicator was saying. Once I got to that stage it was only then that I started finding trades that worked.

I dont know what kind of a trader you wish to be system or discretionary. The basic building block for both kinds is the same. You need an edge. To get that you have to understand what an indicator is supposed to do and observe it do so real time(screen time). I doubt very much if anyone will give you that. Once you have found your edge you need to work at putting it to work i.e. the discretionary or system trading decision. This will involve incorporating a money management strategy in your trading plan. The one and only constant in real world trading is that the market will fox you the first chance it gets. No matter how robust you think your edge\trade selection criteria is there will be times you will be wrong. That has to be accepted immediately and remedial action i.e. booking your loss , taken immediately. This is the ONLY way you survive to fight another day.

R

On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 1:01 AM, Chaudhry Mubashar Virk <ch.mavirk@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I could not have put it better than this, Herman.

(AND I am a veteran of 2.5 years).

From: Herman

Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 7:10 PM

To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Subject: RE: [amibroker] Re: Anyone actually making money?

I think it is a mistake for any beginner to try and imitate traders with 20+
years of, perhaps full time, market-related experience. These traders didn't
always trade the same way either, times change and so do the markets. If
they are still trading they must have adapted many times. They probably have
developed skills that they can't communicate and that they themselves may
not even be aware of. Listening too carefull to anyone, without having the
same background, is going to cost you money. Big money if you take them too
serious. I speak from experience. Only if you do your own thing will you
understand your actions and be a responsible trader. And, don't jump in with
big money. There is no shame in trading 1 share to prove a system.

Take it easy, experiment, sit back and look at charts, try coding some
simple systems. Remember: It's got to be fun! Trading system do not have to
be complicated. The best systems use simple techniques, with perhaps just a
dozen of AFL lines at most. Much the the coding complexities you see
discussed here have little or nothing to do with developing a trading
principle. Testing systems, even if they don't make money, will reveal
things about the market that no amount of chart/tape reading can teach you.
Sooner or later you'll have a reportoire of simple ideas that you can
trade - that will be the time that you start posting on this list for
programming help :-)

AmiBroker will not make money for you but it is (imo) the best development
tool around.

Happy development,
herman

-----Original Message-----
From: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf Of Paul Ho
Sent: July 31, 2008 9:49 AM
To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [amibroker] Re: Anyone actually making money?

I'm still waiting for your to say something sensible, that's of value,
> rather than just dig everyone out...???

LOL, I just told you. YOu cant become a good trader until you know
yourself, really know yourself. Knowing how to draw a few lines makes
you a TA guy, not a trader. understanding the market makes you a
market analyst. Even know how to develop a system doesnt make you a
trader either, you are merely a system developer. When you master
yourself, you are on your way to become a real trader.
Just because you've been involved in trading for years, seeing others
making millions, no more makes your a trader than me an olympian just
because I've been watching olypmics for the last 45 years.
You might think I'm slagging you off, but in years to come, you will
find out for yourself whats true.

--- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "sidhartha70" <sidhartha70@xxx>
wrote:
>
> Paul,
>
> I programme too... nothing wrong with programming and making your
life
> easier. And nothing wrong with asking for someone to 'throw you a
> bone' in that goal... I'm new to AFL. So what??
>
> I've been involved in trading for many years... market making, index
> arbitrage, statistical arbitrage, long/short prop etc.. many years.
> And some of the best money makers I've ever seen have been traders,
> not system traders, who genuinely have a great read of the market
> based off tape reading skills... they have achieved returns,
> consistently, that systems traders can only dream of...
>
> I've traded both... systems and otherwise... you can programme all
the
> most complicated indictaors you like... they are all based on the
same
> things tape reading is... which is price & volume action...
>
> I'm still waiting for your to say something sensible, that's of
value,
> rather than just dig everyone out...???
>
> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Paul Ho" <paul.tsho@> wrote:
> >
> > learn everything you can
> > about trendlines, support & resistance and the old tape reading
skills
> > and you will be miles ahead of 'system developers' in terms of
> > actually understanding the markets and becoming a better trader.
> > .......
> > So you think understanding a few lines on the chart you will
become
> a better
> > trader!!!
> > So you think understanding the market will make you a better
trader!!!
> > So you think you are miles ahead just because you know how to
draw a
> lines
> > rather than a system trader who write a few hundred lines of
codes.
> > NONE OF THE ABOVE WILL MAKE YOU A GOOD TRADER
> > YOU WILL ONLY BECOME A GOOD TRADER IF YOU KNOW YOUSELF.
> >
> > I'LL KEEP THIS IN A SAFE PLACE AND USE IT AS A REPLY WHEN YOU ASK
> SOMEONE TO
> > THROW YOU A BONE.
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > On Behalf Of sidhartha70
> > Sent: Thursday, 31 July 2008 10:47 PM
> > To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [amibroker] Re: Anyone actually making money?
> >
> >
> >
> > Louis,
> >
> > Here's my tip... worth it's weight in gold. I've been doing
this for
> > a
> > long time...
> >
> > Stop looking for the holy grail system... learn everything
you can
> > about trendlines, support & resistance and the old tape
reading
> > skills
> > and you will be miles ahead of 'system developers' in terms of
> > actually understanding the markets and becoming a better
trader.
> >
> > Too many people spend far too much time trying to develop
a 'system'
> > rather than becoming a better trader.
> >
> > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > <mailto:amibroker%40yahoogroups.com> , "Louis P." <rockprog80@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I was only wondering... Anyone actually making money or
making a
> > living
> > > with AB and trading?
> > >
> > > I've been working on ideas and plans for over 7 months now
and
> > didn't find
> > > anything convincing yet. I've been searching daily data,
then
> > hourly,
> > > 15-minute and now I am into 1-minute data and nothing seems
> > satisfying.
> > > Been searching RSI, MFI, ADX, MA, HHV, LLV... nothing seems
to
> > work.
> > >
> > > So... Anyone is making consistent money with this, and if
so, at
> > which
> > > timeframe and how do you do it?
> > >
> > > I'm beginning to think about switching to tick database; it
seems
> > even
> > > 1-minute is too slow for intraday trading. Anyone making
money
> > with
> > > 1-minute?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Louis
> > >
> >
>

------------------------------------

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