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Hi Thomas, Thanks for your message. You understood exactly what my problem is. I lost A LOT of money with discretionary trading last Fall, and this is why I want to build a solid system; something that will really work. I don't want to get back to discretionnary trading because I've seen the risks, and my gf stepbrother is doing this all-day long and he has so much stress I sometimes fear he will not live a long life. Discretionnary is so difficult, because you risk everything in a second... But when you have a good system, you just follow it.
But, of course, you stated the problem correctly: the idea is to be able to build such system. And so far it is a complete failure on my side. Louis 2008/7/31 Thomas Ludwig <Thomas.Ludwig@xxxxxx>
> Hi people,
>
> I am a discretionary trader myself.
So am I. I'm combining relative strength, trendlines, momentum and
general sentiment (useful websites are http://www.indexindicators.com/
and
http://www.schaeffersresearch.com/streetools/market_tools/inv_intel.aspx ),
I place strict stop-loss orders and don't risk too much of my capital
in any single trade. I'm not a full-time trader (only EOD and trading
at next day's open) but I'm making money - not enough money to live
from, though. ;-)
But I can understand Louis' problem: Quite a while ago I started
thinking about trading the systematic way. I've tested and modified
hundreds of trading systems, including, e.g., breakout systems, all
types of adaptive indicators and using ADX or r-squared to distinguish
trending from non-trending situations. Oh, some of them had absolutely
beautiful equity curves after optimization. But most of them failed
miserably after performing an OOS test. And after TJ added walk-forward
analysis (which I've always considered the ultimate reality check since
reading the first edition of Pardo's book) I've applied that approach
to all my systems. Result: So far, I haven't found any system worth
being traded.
I'm not giving up searching for good systems because I think they would
save me valuable time and might make it possible to trade more markets.
But in the meantime I'll stick to my discretionary approach <sigh>.
Regards,
Thomas
>
>
>
> The whole discussion has now evolved to the point of know yourself
> etcetera. Then, why do you argue about discretionary versus system?
> Is it not obvious to you that some people s personality calls for a
> trading system, while others personality calls for a discretionary
> approach.
>
>
>
> It seems to me that the focus of the discussion has been lost.
>
>
>
> Best regards / JM
>
> _____
>
> Från: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> För sidhartha70
> Skickat: den 31 juli 2008 15:56
> Till: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Ämne: [amibroker] Re: Anyone actually making money?
>
>
>
> Ohh Paul... I agree about knowing yourself as I said in my answer to
> Brian. But that's a given surely...?? You only learn that from years
> of trading and observing yourself... you can of course become
> informed on the subject of yourself... there's plenty of literature
> on it... Mark Douglas obviously.
>
> But I stand by what I said... you can become a great trader by really
> understanding trendlines, support & resistance in it's many forms and
> studying price & volume action...
>
> I know it... because I've seen it... and I've done it.
>
> You have your techniques Paul... and good luck to you. Great if they
> work for you. For me, this is what has worked for me...
>
> Henrik thanks for your response. Good to see others agree.
>
> Paul, might I suggest you get out more and make some more human
> connections... you'd probably find you'd be happier, less angry, less
> arrogant, less superior and might even enjoy some of this money you
> make trading...
>
> ps.com,
>
> "Paul Ho" <paul.tsho@xxx> wrote:
> > I'm still waiting for your to say something sensible, that's of
> > value,
> >
> > > rather than just dig everyone out...???
> >
> > LOL, I just told you. YOu cant become a good trader until you know
> > yourself, really know yourself. Knowing how to draw a few lines
> > makes you a TA guy, not a trader. understanding the market makes
> > you a market analyst. Even know how to develop a system doesnt make
> > you a trader either, you are merely a system developer. When you
> > master yourself, you are on your way to become a real trader.
> > Just because you've been involved in trading for years, seeing
> > others making millions, no more makes your a trader than me an
> > olympian just because I've been watching olypmics for the last 45
> > years. You might think I'm slagging you off, but in years to come,
> > you will find out for yourself whats true.
> >
> > ps.com,
>
> "sidhartha70" <sidhartha70@>
>
> > wrote:
> > > Paul,
> > >
> > > I programme too... nothing wrong with programming and making your
> >
> > life
> >
> > > easier. And nothing wrong with asking for someone to 'throw you a
> > > bone' in that goal... I'm new to AFL. So what??
> > >
> > > I've been involved in trading for many years... market making,
> > > index arbitrage, statistical arbitrage, long/short prop etc..
> > > many years. And some of the best money makers I've ever seen have
> > > been traders, not system traders, who genuinely have a great read
> > > of the market based off tape reading skills... they have achieved
> > > returns, consistently, that systems traders can only dream of...
> > >
> > > I've traded both... systems and otherwise... you can programme
> > > all
> >
> > the
> >
> > > most complicated indictaors you like... they are all based on the
> >
> > same
> >
> > > things tape reading is... which is price & volume action...
> > >
> > > I'm still waiting for your to say something sensible, that's of
> >
> > value,
> >
> > > rather than just dig everyone out...???
> > >
> > > ps.com,
>
> "Paul Ho" <paul.tsho@> wrote:
> > > > learn everything you can
> > > > about trendlines, support & resistance and the old tape reading
> >
> > skills
> >
> > > > and you will be miles ahead of 'system developers' in terms of
> > > > actually understanding the markets and becoming a better
> > > > trader. .......
> > > > So you think understanding a few lines on the chart you will
> >
> > become
> >
> > > a better
> > >
> > > > trader!!!
> > > > So you think understanding the market will make you a better
> >
> > trader!!!
> >
> > > > So you think you are miles ahead just because you know how to
> >
> > draw a
> >
> > > lines
> > >
> > > > rather than a system trader who write a few hundred lines of
> >
> > codes.
> >
> > > > NONE OF THE ABOVE WILL MAKE YOU A GOOD TRADER
> > > > YOU WILL ONLY BECOME A GOOD TRADER IF YOU KNOW YOUSELF.
> > > >
> > > > I'LL KEEP THIS IN A SAFE PLACE AND USE IT AS A REPLY WHEN YOU
> > > > ASK
> > >
> > > SOMEONE TO
> > >
> > > > THROW YOU A BONE.
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > >
> > > > ps.com
> >
> > [mailto:amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%40yahoogroups.com>
> > ps.com]
> >
> > > > On Behalf Of sidhartha70
> > > > Sent: Thursday, 31 July 2008 10:47 PM
> > > > ps.com Subject: [amibroker] Re: Anyone actually making money?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Louis,
> > > >
> > > > Here's my tip... worth it's weight in gold. I've been doing
> >
> > this for
> >
> > > > a
> > > > long time...
> > > >
> > > > Stop looking for the holy grail system... learn everything
> >
> > you can
> >
> > > > about trendlines, support & resistance and the old tape
> >
> > reading
> >
> > > > skills
> > > > and you will be miles ahead of 'system developers' in terms of
> > > > actually understanding the markets and becoming a better
> >
> > trader.
> >
> > > > Too many people spend far too much time trying to develop
> >
> > a 'system'
> >
> > > > rather than becoming a better trader.
> > > >
> > > > ps.com <mailto: amibroker%40yahoogroups.com> , "Louis P."
> > > > <rockprog80@>
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > I was only wondering... Anyone actually making money or
> >
> > making a
> >
> > > > living
> > > >
> > > > > with AB and trading?
> > > > >
> > > > > I've been working on ideas and plans for over 7 months now
> >
> > and
> >
> > > > didn't find
> > > >
> > > > > anything convincing yet. I've been searching daily data,
> >
> > then
> >
> > > > hourly,
> > > >
> > > > > 15-minute and now I am into 1-minute data and nothing seems
> > > >
> > > > satisfying.
> > > >
> > > > > Been searching RSI, MFI, ADX, MA, HHV, LLV... nothing seems
> >
> > to
> >
> > > > work.
> > > >
> > > > > So... Anyone is making consistent money with this, and if
> >
> > so, at
> >
> > > > which
> > > >
> > > > > timeframe and how do you do it?
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm beginning to think about switching to tick database; it
> >
> > seems
> >
> > > > even
> > > >
> > > > > 1-minute is too slow for intraday trading. Anyone making
> >
> > money
> >
> > > > with
> > > >
> > > > > 1-minute?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Louis
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