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Being a patron of AB for more than 4 years. I would say that AB is
very much an AFL centric product. The changes in the AFL engine and
its capabilities has been nothing short of phenomenal. In contrast,
the hand drawing features of AB has hardly changed in the last 4
years, and probably not much has changed for much longer than that.
Although not publicly stated, I presumed that it is the direction
that Tomasz wants to go, and this specialization has been very
successful. I can also assumed that many of those who wanted/relied
on AB's drawing capabilities might also have deserted us already. I
have known some of the problems Dennis has mentioned long time ago,
but somehow I have never bothered even to mentioned them, probably
because I developed myself more on AFL as a trading and charting
tool, and hardly use the drawing tools these day.
Tomasz is a one man band. So I can apprecriate and am very happy with
the product direction he has taken. I dont think Brian's suggestion
of hiring a few more programmers is the answer. Believe me, the law
of diminishing return applies far more rigourously in human than
CPUs. What I would like to see is that Tomasz opens up the hand
drawing capability to third party contribution throuh the use of
plugins, much like the AFL and data plugins. Once done, I'm sure that
people will roll their own drawing tools. Of course, existing bugs
will still need to be fixed.
--- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "brian_z111" <brian_z111@xxx> wrote:
>
> > And no, I can not hire 2 more programmers because then I would
need
> >to rise the cost of the program 3 times
> > and then everyone would scream that it is too expensive and will
> >walk away. Then it would mean the end of product.
>
> Since Dennis's intent is to invite constructive comment and since
the
> forum does act as an informal customer feedback center:
>
> the content of your reply relates to a lot of personal and business
> decisions - not sure if you are inviting comment on those matters?
>
>
>
> As a customer:
>
> I am not certain that I am a price buyer (once again this relates
to
> business theory and application), probably not.
>
> The price is nice but is it the reason I buy AB?
>
> In the first place I made a choice to make trading my home based
> business (I could have chosen something else), so that makes me a
> business customer I guess (albeit a small-time one).
>
> You can't trade professionally with anything less than approx $100K.
> If I invested that amount with an Aussie fund I would pay around 2%
> expenses, so 2K PA is a reasonable operating cost.
>
> When I first started my costs were high (books, training courses
etc)
> but now I can operate around those figures (I do my own tax and
only
> need software/data/computer/internet - but I would have
> computer/internet anyway - I don't need specialist computers for
> trading).
>
> Of course that is only if we don't consider brokerage as a business
> cost - if I daytrade 100k what is my annual brokerage bill? -
> mentally I lump this in with gross edge - commissions == net edge
but
> in business terms it is on the books as operating costs.
> Software/data costs are a tiny fraction of annual commissions.
>
> Anyone who has operated a business, in one of the major economies
of
> the world, will know that trading costs are laughable compared to
the
> costs of running other businesses - most businesses in Australia
run
> on very low net returns compared to the capital invested in the
> business.
>
>
> Also when I bought AB I was not a naive trader.
> I knew what I was doing and had owned two other software packages
> prior to AB.
>
> On that basis I would say I am a specialist customer (perhaps that
is
> AB's niche in the market).
>
> Specialists want the software to do the things they want it to do
> (pretty hard since we all want different things).
>
> Adding all of that up I vote for:
>
> please hire another programmer, give people more of what they want
> (give the optimizers their dual core stuff, give the chartists
their
> snap and draw or whatever, give the Aussies their YahooFdata etc,
> etc) and put the price up - maybe even add some features
> to the UKB :-)
>
> Metastock is the point of comparison for AB - it is approx $500 PA
> for EOD and from $1000 for Pro - so AB can stand that price (of
> course they have 'lease' MS for a monthly fee which allows us to
> pretend we are not paying $1000 a year and so that makes it feel
> nicer).
>
>
>
> Re price buying:
>
> If I buy a cheap car I get less features.
> If I pay more I get more features and better appointments.
> If I buy the cheap car I still expect the (lesser) features to work.
> If they don't I won't buy it again at any price.
>
> (if an existing feature doesn't work this has a far more negative
> effect on customers than not having the feature they want in the
> first place? - psychologists claim that one negative experience far
> outweigns many positive experiences - also it is human nature to
buy
> the cheaper model and then complain because it doesn't have the
> features they didn't pay for - that will never change).
>
>
> Re: walking away
>
> When it comes time for you to buy a new car what do you do Tomasz?
>
> Are you going to stick to a brand, out of loyalty, if a competing
> model has better reliability, features and appointments at the same
> price?
>
> How about availability, delivery and service?
>
> What motivates you to buy a product and then rebuy it over and over?
>
> Also you will find your needs change with time - as the kids grow
the
> house and the cars get bigger and after they go you and your wife
can
> have an office each (they used to be the kids rooms).
>
> So, perhaps people will walk away if their needs change and/or AB
is
> no loner meeting their needs.
>
> - better ask your wife, about the car, before you buy though - it
> always pays to get a second opinion ;-)
>
>
>
> Re: what do customers want?
>
> We want it all - don't you?
>
> That will never change either.
>
> The more that companies meet those 'impossible' needs the more
> customers they get.
>
> For example - who goes to Starbucks to pick up a coffee, then goes
to
> Wendys to pick up a donut and takes them to the burger shop to put
> them together for a nice breakfast if they can get a nice burger,
> coffee and donut at Maccas (plus a free paper to read as well)?
>
> - better get a second opinion from the kids on that one too ;-)
>
>
>
> Hope my perspective offered some helpful feedback.
>
> Regards,
>
> brian_z
>
>
>
> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Tomasz Janeczko" <groups@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > You people don't seem to realise that I am THE ONLY PERSON who
> works on AmiBroker code.
> > The day has only 24 hours and one person has only two hands.
> > Now if even few people ouf of 8000 users submit "ideas" everyday,
> no matter what I do I can not implement
> > them IMMEDIATELLY.
> >
> > And no, I can not hire 2 more programmers because then I would
need
> to rise the cost of the program 3 times
> > and then everyone would scream that it is too expensive and will
> walk away. Then it would mean the end of product.
> >
> > So, considering that I am the ONLY DEVELOPER of AmiBroker and
wrote
> everything from scratch with my own hands, I can say that:
> > a) I am doing more than anyone in this business to make customers
> happy
> > b) I am implementing MORE features/user requests/ideas than
anyone
> else in this business
> > c) I am going an extra mile with responding PERSONALLY on the
> public mailing list to many of your posts.
> >
> > I can not do MORE than I am doing now. It is physically
impossible
> for anyone.
> >
> > So, if I tell you that I am going to check things, I will do
that,
> but this is all subject to TIME and PHYSICAL ABILITY constraints.
> >
> > Pushing the string does not help at all. It makes things worse.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Tomasz Janeczko
> > amibroker.com
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: wavemechanic
> > To: AmiBroker, User
> > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 2:47 PM
> > Subject: Re: [amibroker] Study Charting dare I say bugs...
> >
> >
> > Dennis:
> >
> > I completely agree with your overall assessment and know that
at
> least several users also completely or partially agree but may or
may
> not respond - so you are not alone. Much has been said through the
> years on the Yahoo board/AB website/support mail about
> bugs, "clunkiness", and desired/necessary features. Because of the
> type of problems that you mentioned (I am also indicator mode
> oriented), I use the EOD version of AB and then only at "half
> throttle" because my applications and programming needs are not as
> extensive as that of a number of other AB users. Like you, I use
> broker supplied and personal software for RT streaming and charting
> studies (no "shoe" fits all). These issues, however, are not
> restricted to AB as evidenced by a recent review on another board
> where the user compared AB/Metastock/Tradestation/Blocks and ended
up
> (as I understand) with a Blocks package that includes
> charting/streaming data/EOD data/backtesting/useful standard
> features - so things are evolving.
> >
> > Bill
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Dennis Brown
> > To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 12:12 AM
> > Subject: [amibroker] Study Charting dare I say bugs...
> >
> >
> > Friends,
> >
> > AmiBroker is a wonderful program for many things. In fact I
> use only
> > a fraction of its total capability for my trading style. I
> trade only
> > single ticker (futures) real time and write whole trading
> systems just
> > in AFL in indicator mode. This is actually more like the
> traditional
> > chart trading that is offered by many brokers.
> >
> > I would expect that AB, which supports all these functions as
a
> very
> > basic operating mode would be at least as good as other
> charting
> > programs.
> >
> > However, even though the fundamental operations are there
(and
> I think
> > potentially better), the interface (either design or
> implementation
> > bugs --I don't know which) has made it hard for me to use
this
> product
> > for drawing even basic lines on the charts while trading. In
> fact, I
> > need a second chart from my broker's application open to the
> same
> > ticker just so I can draw lines where I want them even though
> AB would
> > be superior at this if it were not for the bugs. This has
been
> going
> > on with me for over a year now and it is costing me.
> >
> > I have other trading friends that I have recommended try AB
in
> the
> > last week, and I am embarrassed to think what they will say
to
> me when
> > they figure out that these basic features don't work
properly.
> I have
> > actually refrained from recommending AB to them for quite a
> while --
> > hoping these things would be fixed first.
> >
> > I don't know how many other traders are frustrated by the
same
> bugs,
> > but if you are, please join the conversation so that Tomasz
> knows that
> > this is important to you also and perhaps we can get some
> higher
> > priority on getting the study charting to work properly.
> >
> > Here is a short list of my frustrating bugs --there are
others
> on the
> > suggestions and bug lists, but I am only pointing out the
ones
> that
> > cost profits by either making it very slow to do a simple
> operation
> > that makes one lose the trade opportunity, or creates
> frustration and
> > emotion which takes one out of the trading "Zone", or makes
the
> line
> > drawn correctly to become inaccurate causing one to miss the
> trigger
> > point for a trade. If I have missed any that you feel are
> costing you
> > profits (not the nice to have pretty things) than please add
> them to
> > the conversation.
> >
> > #726. Handles from a selected study line are not respected.
> Often
> > several lines are anchored or pass through the same pivot
> points.
> > Price levels, Trend lines, Forks, Fibs, etc., often use a
> common pivot
> > point. However, as a trade progresses, new pivots become
more
> > important and the lines need to be adjusted in real time. It
> is easy
> > to select a study just by clicking on it in a spot where it
is
> unique,
> > and the handles will appear along the line. However, unlike
> any other
> > charting program I have ever used, clicking and dragging on
> the
> > visible handle will not usually work properly if any other
> study
> > crosses very close to that handle. The problem is that AB
will
> grab
> > the earliest drawn study and not the selected one --it will
un-
> select
> > the one you selected and select the oldest one and drag it
> instead.
> > After playing around for a few valuable seconds trying to
grab
> the
> > right line, I end up having to move the whole line away from
> its
> > current location and reposition all its handles. Very
> frustrating and
> > takes the time and concentration away from the trading action.
> >
> > #728. Horizontal price levels do not stay horizontal. The
> horizontal
> > lines (price levels) do not snap to a bar with the magnet
mode
> on.
> > They just are placed at the cursor level. However, if you
> click on
> > the line, it jumps to an angled line that snaps to the bar on
> the left
> > side of the screen. Its operation is just bizarre and causes
> errors
> > in placement of the price level after the fact. Completely
> > unacceptable behavior for trading.
> >
> > #890. Study handles change when off screen. Lets say you
have
> the
> > magnet on and are zoomed out and draw a trend line between
two
> peaks.
> > Next you zoom in on the trading action so that only the right
> hand
> > handle is visible on the chart. Now say the prices have
> advanced to a
> > new peak and you need to adjust the right handle to the new
> peak (this
> > is a very common occurrence). Most of the time, that handle
> that is
> > off screen jumps to a new bar position and is no longer on
the
> peak
> > you selected. Of course that changes the slope of the trend
> line to
> > the wrong one, but you never know it when trading and you end
> up
> > placing bad breakout trades because the line is in the wrong
> place
> > now. Completely unacceptable behavior for trading.
> >
> > #990. Drag shadow is on the wrong bar. When dragging a
study,
> there
> > is a thin "shadow" line that shows which bar you have dragged
> the
> > handles to. However, when the mouse is released, the study
> gets moved
> > to a different bar than the one indicated by the shadow.
This
> wastes
> > valuable time with two or three attempts to figure out which
> wrong bar
> > to put the shadow on to get the study to go where you want
it.
> This
> > is an annoyance.
> >
> > And here is one more that I just found today. If I draw
trend
> lines
> > on a one minute bar snapped to peaks, then switch to a 5
minute
> view,
> > the trend lines are shown on the wrong 5 minute bars. And
> heaven help
> > me if I select the line in that view, because it will snap to
> these
> > wrong bars.
> >
> > There you have my short list. Please speak up if these
issues
> affect
> > you.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Dennis
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Please note that this group is for discussion between users
> only.
> >
> > To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly
to
> > SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
> >
> > For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check
> DEVLOG:
> > http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/
> >
> > For other support material please check also:
> > http://www.amibroker.com/support.html
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --------
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1510 - Release
Date:
> 6/19/2008 3:21 PM
> >
>
------------------------------------
Please note that this group is for discussion between users only.
To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly to
SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check DEVLOG:
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