While optimization can be employed to search for a good system via 
  
methods utilizing automated rule creation, selection and combination 
  
or generic pattern recognition most people typically use optimization 
  
to search for a good set of parameter values. The success of the 
  
latter of course assumes one has a good rule set i.e. system to begin 
  
with.
As far as your prediction is concerned ... I suspect there 
  are lots 
of people, some of who post here, who could demonstrate otherwise 
  if 
they chose to ...
--- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxps.com, 
  "brian_z111" <brian_z111@...> wrote:
>
> "IS metrics 
  are always good because we keep optimizing until they 
> are" (or words 
  to that effect by HB) which is true.
> 
> It is not until we 
  submit the system to an unknown sample, either 
an 
> OOS test, paper 
  or live trading that we validate the system.
> 
> Discussing your 
  points:
> 
> IMO we are talking about two different trading 
  approaches, or 
styles 
> (there is no reason we can't understand 
  both very well).
> 
> One is the search for a good system, via 
  optimization, with the 
> attendant subsequent tuning of the system to 
  match a changing 
market.
> 
> If I understand Howard correctly 
  he is an exponent of this style.
> 
> It is my prediction that 
  where we are optimising, using lookback 
> periods, that the max 
  possible PA% return will be around 30, maybe 
> 40, for EOD 
  trading.
> 
> Do we ever optimise anything other than indicators 
  with lookback 
> periods?
> If so that might be a different 
  story.
> 
> Bastardising Marshall McCluhans famous line I could 
  say "the 
> optimization is the method".
> 
> It is also 
  possible to conceptually optimize the system, before 
> testing, to the 
  point that little, or no, optimization is required 
> (experienced 
  traders with a certain disposition do this quite 
> comfortably but it 
  doesn't suit the inexperienced and/or those who 
> don't have the 
  temperament for it).
> 
> So, if a system has a sound reason to 
  exist, and it is not 
optimized 
> at all, and it has a statistically 
  valid IS test then it his highly 
> likely to be a robust system, 
  especially if it is robust across a 
> range of 
  stocks/instruments.
> The chances that this is due to pure luck are 
  probably longer than 
> the chance that an optimized IS test, with a 
  confirming OOS test, 
is 
> also a chance event.
> 
> 
  However, if I had plenty of data e.g. I was an intraday trader, 
then 
  
> I would go ahead and do an OOS test anyway (since the cost is 
  
> negligible)
> 
> Re testing on several stocks.
> 
  
> If the system is 'good' on one symbol, (the sample size is valid) 
  
and 
> it is also good on a second symbol (also with a valid sample 
  size) 
is 
> that any different from performing an IS and an OOS 
  test?
> 
> For stock trading, I call the relative performance, on 
  a set of 
> symbols, 'vertical' testing as compared to 'horizontal' 
  testing 
> (where horizontal testing is an equity curve).
> 
  
> Yes, if an IS test, with no optimization, beat the buy & hold on 
  
> every occasion (or a significant number of times) in a vertical 
  
test 
> and the sum of that test was statistically valid and the 
  horizontal 
> test (the combined equity curve) was 'good' it would give 
  you 
> something to think about for sure.
> If some of the 
  symbols, in the vertical stack, had contrary 
returns, 
> compared to 
  the bias of my system, I probably would start to get a 
> little 
  excited.
> 
> (I think perhaps you were alluding to something 
  along those lines).
> 
> BTW did you know that the Singapore 
  Slingers play in the Australian 
> basketball league?
> 
> 
  Cheers,
> 
> brian_z
>