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> I am in complete agreement with you. The method I recommend for
handling
> the psychology aspect is to address it at the beginning of the
trading
> system development process.
As you have noted before, ruled based trading, with a personalized
metric, is the simplest and most sure fire way to control the
emotions when trading. (Of course nothing can go further than AT in
implementing that strategy).
In order to be able to personalize an objective function, IMO, we
first need to have a very good working knowledge of evaluation, which
is why I occasionally get on my soapbox about it to try to influence
young traders.
In fact evaluation is at the very core of trading, as we are
interested in it, and I wish more traders would take an interest in
the finer points of the subject (as I have demonstrated over and over
again, you don't have to have a masters degree in maths to be able to
do that).
I also go beyond that to advanced subjective methods but most of them
are not for the majority - a measured, objective approach to system
design remains the first port of call for all freelance traders.
Trading is like handling a wild animal - you have to stduy the animal
and know its every habit.
Good luck with the workshop.
Hope you all have a great time in Vegas - disapointed that I can't be
there.
brian_z
--- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Howard B" <howardbandy@xxx> wrote:
>
> Hi Brian_z --
>
> You wrote:
> " I claim that the subjective plays a big part in successful trading
> (a.k.a trading psychology)."
>
> I am in complete agreement with you. The method I recommend for
handling
> the psychology aspect is to address it at the beginning of the
trading
> system development process. By choosing your objective function at
the
> start, designing a custom function just for your own use if
necessary, then
> using that function as the metric by which all your trading systems
are
> measured, the resulting systems are certain to fit your own
psychology and
> personality. AmiBroker has the capability for doing this, and my
book
> explains how in great detail. (I'll also be talking about this at
some
> length in my workshop in Las Vegas next week.)
>
> Thanks,
> Howard
> www.quantitativetradingsystems.com
>
>
> On Feb 16, 2008 3:52 PM, brian_z111 <brian_z111@xxx> wrote:
>
> > Quite.
> >
> > It is the subjective mind that puts things in perspective
(measures
> > the value and meaning of them) e.g. we know what beauty is but we
> > can't rationalize it.
> >
> > I claim that the subjective plays a big part in successful trading
> > (a.k.a trading psychology).
> >
> > That's a book all on its own, although Aronson did a passing job
on
> > the basics in EBTA (for a tech guy!)
> >
> > brian_z
> >
> >
> > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <amibroker%
40yahoogroups.com>, "Howard B"
> > <howardbandy@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Greetings all --
> > >
> > > Let me add my voice to those suggesting that you reconsider
leaving
> > Quotes
> > > Plus.
> > >
> > > I am a subscriber to QP for both EOD and RealTime.
> > >
> > > I have had difficulties with QP's billing department. Gary got
them
> > > straightened out for me.
> > >
> > > I am satisfied with the quality of the data.
> > >
> > > Consistency is worth a lot. Most of my research and most of my
> > trading is
> > > done based on systems that I have developed using QP data. If I
> > were to
> > > change to another vendor, I would begin to notice differences.
> > That would
> > > concern me, and I would spend way too much time deciding
whether I
> > needed to
> > > be worried or not. In the end, my choices would be to redo a
great
> > deal of
> > > research, or go back to QP to resolve the differences.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Howard
> > >
> > > On Feb 16, 2008 2:01 AM, brian_z111 <brian_z111@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Paul,
> > > >
> > > > I can see that you are a technician.
> > > > I wonder how that translates into your trading style?
> > > >
> > > > I don't know if you will appreciate what I have been implying.
> > > >
> > > > The data from the exchanges is not absolutely correct
(although I
> > > > agree with Bill that we should treat it as if it is).
> > > > This is a 'construct of convenience' that helps us to avoid
the
> > > > uncomfortable fact that objective analyze has its limits and
> > starts
> > > > to breakdown at the edges.
> > > >
> > > > While we all say we are objective traders we aren't.
> > > > Subjectivity plays its part because it is 50% of our makeup.
> > > > After all of the analysis is down it is the feel we have for
the
> > > > trade that allows us to continue in despite a bad tick or two.
> > > >
> > > > If our subjective capabilities weren't a match for our
objective
> > > > capabilities we wouldn't be able to trade at all.
> > > >
> > > > brian_z
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <amibroker%
40yahoogroups.com><amibroker%
> > 40yahoogroups.com>, "Paul Ho"
> > > > <paultsho@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > One problem for yahoo data for Australian stocks is that
price
> > is
> > > > only
> > > > > quoted down to 2 decimal place only. In real life, 3 decimal
> > place
> > > > is quoted
> > > > > at the exchange.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _____
> > > > >
> > > > > From: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <amibroker%
40yahoogroups.com><amibroker%40yahoogroups.com>
> > [mailto:
> > > > amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <amibroker%
40yahoogroups.com><amibroker%40yahoogroups.com>]
> > > > On Behalf
> > > > > Of brian_z111
> > > > > Sent: Friday, 15 February 2008 11:38 PM
> > > > > To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <amibroker%
40yahoogroups.com><amibroker%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> > > > > Subject: [amibroker] Re: New EOD data feed other than Quotes
> > Plus
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ara,
> > > > >
> > > > > For the sake of sharing information - to save people wasted
> > time:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I know many are willing to to do a lot of work in order
to use
> > > > free
> > > > > >data from Yahoo or add fundamenttal info from Yahoo.
> > > > >
> > > > > It's no work at all.
> > > > > Yahoo and Yahoo current fundamentals are integrated with
> > AmiQuote >
> > > > AB
> > > > >
> > > > > >>I have not tried it, but my impression has been that what
you
> > get
> > > > > >>is what you pay for.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo data is not free - it is paid for by Yahoo (bought
from
> > > > > reputable companies) from revenue from ads - it is
distributed
> > for
> > > > > free to attract users to the site who then buy things via
the
> > ads
> > > > (I
> > > > > sometimes do).
> > > > >
> > > > > >I would rather pay a reasonable fee and get a reliable
product.
> > > > >
> > > > > How do we know that our data products are quality? -
because the
> > > > > provider told us so?
> > > > >
> > > > > How can we check data and how many do?
> > > > > It is not so easy to check data.
> > > > >
> > > > > As I suggested to Barry the other day - we can go to Yahoo,
> > > > download
> > > > > raw, or fully adjusted, get dividend info, get split info
and do
> > > > our
> > > > > own checks on Yahoo in the same way we can do that for any
other
> > > > > provider. I have done one or two here and there and I
haven't
> > found
> > > > > anything alarming to me. If I did I would then work around
that.
> > > > >
> > > > > What we can't get from Yahoo is event adjusted data without
> > > > dividend
> > > > > adjustment - people who want that have to get it elsewhere.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, sadly, for longer term traders, more error is
introduced
> > into
> > > > > backtesting by using data without div adjustment than errors
> > within
> > > > > Yahoo's data (I only say that to help people).
> > > > >
> > > > > IMO - first we should know what our trading style is,
second we
> > > > > should have a strategy in mind and then third we should buy
data
> > > > that
> > > > > will give us the best chance to analyze past performance of
that
> > > > > strategy (in my case that means a few different types of
data).
> > > > >
> > > > > As you know I could give a couple of pages more in support
of
> > > > traders
> > > > > taking a more flexible and proactive attitude to their data
but
> > I
> > > > > would be better to do that at the UKB.
> > > > >
> > > > > One example:
> > > > >
> > > > > I recently developed a very promising new system on
holiday -
> > just
> > > > > before walking out the door to catch the plane I copied a
> > complete
> > > > AB
> > > > > directory from an XP machine and dumped it on a Vista laptop
> > > > > (naughty, naughty) - I dumped all the old databases to get
the
> > size
> > > > > down and only took a copy of Jim's US Yahoo database (I
wanted
> > div
> > > > > adjusted data for EOD backtesting).
> > > > >
> > > > > I managed to get some good work done.
> > > > >
> > > > > When I got back I then carried on towards testing in
intraday
> > data
> > > > > from another provider and so far it is performing exactly as
> > tested
> > > > > on Yahoo (only better) - I am using intraday to finesse the
> > entries
> > > > > and exits that I couldn't finesse in EOD data. The trades
> > average 2-
> > > > 3
> > > > > days round trip.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also when it is ready to trade I will be totally familiar
with
> > it
> > > > > after thousands of tests etc and I will see straight away if
> > > > > something is odd when I start going to the brokers (who also
> > has a
> > > > > different source for data).
> > > > >
> > > > > Also consider that the so-called differences in data is a
bit
> > of a
> > > > > myth. In Australia there is only one exchange - they have a
> > > > monopoly
> > > > > on the data. They do some filtering of the tick data
themselves
> > > > > before releasing it to their providers so how different can
it
> > be.
> > > > >
> > > > > The only differences in data in Australia that can occur are
> > from
> > > > a)
> > > > > extra filtering or b) event adjustments.
> > > > >
> > > > > At the prices I don't think too many here are doing to mucn
of
> > a)
> > > > and
> > > > > b) is checkable.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, as we have seen in a recent article, bad tick data
isn't
> > the
> > > > > end of the world at the EOD level.
> > > > >
> > > > > In fact EOD traders can tolerate quite a bit of error and
still
> > win
> > > > > the day.
> > > > >
> > > > > brian_z
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%
40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > ps.com, "Ara
> > > > > Kaloustian" <ara1@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dan, I am not sure how other handle it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I know many are willing to to do a lot of work in order
to use
> > > > free
> > > > > data from Yahoo or add fundamenttal info from Yahoo. I have
not
> > > > > tried it, but my impression has been that what you get is
what
> > you
> > > > > pay for. I would rather pay a reasonable fee and get a
reliable
> > > > > product.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > About TC 2000, I beleive it is slower than QP and
remapping
> > can
> > > > be
> > > > > a bunch of work and I don't care for their industry mapping
> > either.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > QP has been fine for me with very few exceptions.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We all meet some unacceptable service personnel from time
to
> > > > > time ... I take it as part of dealing with people. It's
usually
> > OK,
> > > > > but sometime it is not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sorry can't really be of much help.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Dan Clark
> > > > > > To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%
40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > ps.com
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:15 PM
> > > > > > Subject: RE: [amibroker] New EOD data feed other than
Quotes
> > Plus
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ara,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi. It's been a long time.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I remember that I did not like the industry/sector info
from
> > > > > TC2000. I can remap the data if necessary. How do others
handle
> > > > > this?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dan.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > ----------
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%
40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > ps.com
> > > > > [mailto:amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%
40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > ps.com] On
> > > > > Behalf Of Ara Kaloustian
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:07 PM
> > > > > > To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%
40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > ps.com
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [amibroker] New EOD data feed other than
Quotes
> > Plus
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > TC2000 is reliable, but they do not have fundamentals or
very
> > > > > few. (at least that's what I remember from a while back).
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They do not have commodities and charge extra for mutual
> > funds.
> > > > > Their data is ready earlier than QP.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Their industry / sector structure is completely different
tha
> > QP.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: Dan Clark
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:amibroker%
40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > ps.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 8:55 PM
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Subject: [amibroker] New EOD data feed other than Quotes
Plus
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've been using Quotes Plus data for the last 2-1/2 years.
> > > > > Overall, I've been very happy with Quotes Plus data and Gary
> > > > Lyben's
> > > > > (owner/president) responsiveness. That said.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In the last few days, I've swapped several e-mails about a
> > > > > minor billing issue (credit card renewed with different
number)
> > > > with
> > > > > a woman in his billing department. What should have been a
very
> > > > > minor clerical issue left me feeling EXTREMELY angry and
> > offended.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I vowed to switch my data feed from Quotes Plus to another
> > data
> > > > > feed as soon as possible. This is a major issue for me
because
> > of
> > > > > the amount of AFL recoding involved, but I can no longer do
> > > > business
> > > > > with Quotes Plus.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I need some options for other EOD data feeds. What EOD
> > > > > service are you using? What has your experience been? What
are
> > > > > the alternatives now?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks and regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dan.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
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