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Brian,
Thanks for the thoughtful replies. I am very happy to hear that
Tomasz and active members of this board are pursuing this direction.
I took a look at WordPress.org. It sounds interesting and should be
capable of what you and I are interested in. I just don't know how
easy or hard it would be to create and maintain compared to other
solutions. That is an area that I have little experience with.
As far as indexes go. What I envision ULTIMATELY is quite easy to
conceptualize, but the details might get complex. For instance:
I want to debug some AB code but don't know the ways I could go about
it. I go to the index and look for a topic on Debugging or
Troubleshooting AFL code. I get a page that has a link to a general
discussion page, and list of links with short descriptions to
specific debugging techniques pages that go into detail with examples
of each technique. For instance, Showing Internal Loop Values,
displaying tables of information, single stepping through data, and
whatever other spiffy techniques have been devised. At the bottom
level there might be a number of "see also" links to pages with
related information.
Then say, I want to learn what AFL options I have for displaying
text. I go to the index and look up text display and I get to a page
that has links to a number of possibilities, like tool tip text,
Chart header text, Guru window text, Study text, converting numbers
to text, etc. I select the closest topic and it takes me to a
general discussion page with links to specific AFL functions
definitions or specific teaching examples.
The point is, I can start with just a general idea of what I am
looking for without knowing exactly what something is called or even
if it exists in AFL. Then I am taken to a page where I can narrow
the possibilities from a selection of things that perhaps I did not
even know existed when I started. In this way I work from general to
specific knowledge and learn a lot more along the way. It is like
playing a game of 20 questions to discovering the answer to a vague
idea of need. In very few clicks, I am at the specific detailed
information to solve my common problem.
If I know exactly what something is called, of course I just use a
search term to get me there directly.
This is like the difference between pull down menus and command line
interfaces. I am a GUI menu fan myself --can never remember what
something is called. LOL
An index based system like this means that the same links to specific
information pages would most certainly turn up on many different
pages because of the overlap in general terms.
The difficulty comes when new information is added, all the places
that could link to it need to be changed. The ability to structure
the pages and links and revise them easily is the crux of making
something like this successful. It almost begs to have a set of
special tools just to make maintenance of the relationships between
pages work.
I would be happy to kick around high level concepts with Tomasz, or
anyone else off line, but I am not experienced in implementing such
things with the web based tools of today. My inputs com from a
simple question of, I have a problem, where do I start to find the
solution in as little time as possible. If I can find the answer
quickly, I am a happy productive customer. If the answer is hard to
get (i.e., requires me to type a long explanation of the problem, or
sift through a lot of unrelated information), or takes more than 5
minutes to get, I am a frustrated unproductive customer.
Anyway, my original request was just a simple double entry AFL index
(alpha and category) to all the pages with specific information in
the list of docs. But as you can see my real vision is for something
that actually helps users to find and learn about solutions to
practical problems at a pace much faster than can be possible
interacting through email. The top level page would be the only page
that would remain open on my desktop while I was working with AB.
Save the email for the tough problems that need new solutions --that
can then be added to the knowledge base. Done correctly, it could
be a boon for AmiBroker and the user community to grow and prosper.
Dennis
On Apr 25, 2007, at 8:02 PM, brian_z321 wrote:
> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Dennis Brown <see3d@xxx> wrote:
>
> Once again I have ticked all of your points.
>
>> I have been involved in efforts like this before. They seem to
>> succeed only when the company supports the idea and either hosts
> the
>> site or provides active links to it.
>
> Yes, Tomasz is considering hosting the site at amibroker.org
>
>> Since AB is a dynamic product,
>> keeping documentation up to date is an ongoing effort. Look for
>> example at the Wikipedia. It would actually be possible to put
> the
>> index I want in Wikipedia, along with extra documentation. The
>> problem will be keeping the links up to date. A more modest
> purpose
>> built site would of course be preferable.
>
> Herman is the leader for the project (elected in absentia).
> Tomasz and Herman have discussed Wiki sites etc.
> I believe that WordPress will be used as it offers some advantages
> over Wiki sites and also maintains compatibility with Ami's
> KnowledgeBase.
> Compatibility provides easier management for AmiBroker and seamless
> transition for users from AmiKB to User'sKB.
>
> I can't see your vision for the index in the way that you do so I am
> not sure where it would fit in.
> Also I don't know what the final outcomes for the UserKB will be or
> what WordPress is capable of.
> Documentation at WordPress could clarify that for you:
>
> http://wordpress.org/
>
> If you want to do something I am sure there would be a place for it.
> If you are interested in helping why not scope your idea and talk it
> over with Tomasz.
> He is a good filter to see if it is worth the effort in the long run.
>
> Herman is away for a week.
> He can provide more info later.
> His idea is that the UKB members will provide ongoing maintenance
> and/or development to make the site as dynamic as possible.
>
>
>> The most important thing is not the knowledge base (this list is a
>> great knowledge base), but the means to make the specific piece of
> it
>> available to the inquiring user. The way the information is
> indexed
>> is the true measure of its usefulness. You want to be able to
> drill
>> down a tree from general to specific topic. That is the real
>> challange. Right now, the associative index is in the minds of
> the
>> knowledgeable helpers here. That will always be needed at some
>> level, but half the frustration of new users could be removed with
>> the right indexing.
>
> Agreed.
> A lot of knowledge is shared in the forum and some of it gets lost or
> devalued amongst the discussion.
> That was where my initiative started from; a desire to have an
> AmiBroker owned site with some structure that allowed easy file
> access in and out.
>
> WordPress has an underlying database structure so it is fully
> searchable etc.
> It is also extendable with plugins and can accommodate more advanced
> publishing for those with the skills.
> It also provides for Categories and sub-Categories, although to my
> mind they are somewhat academic when a site can be searched by
> keywords.
>
> Articles can belong to several categories etc which IMO makes for
> better indexing than a hierarchical folder structure.
>
>> Now I want to say this about Tomasz. He has done a fantastic job
> on
>> AB.
>
> Thanks for providing some balance.
>
> It is a very fine line we walk between not stifling debate, accepting
> feedback and gathering suggestions for improvement while at the same
> time keeping things in perspective and avoiding offence.
>
> I don't think anyone can imagine what it is like to answer to several
> hundred users via public sites and the demands that places on the
> person sitting in the chair.
>
>
> Brian.
>
>
>
>
>
> Please note that this group is for discussion between users only.
>
> To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly to
> SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
>
> For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check DEVLOG:
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>
> For other support material please check also:
> http://www.amibroker.com/support.html
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
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