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Brian,
This is an admirable suggestion, and I expect it could be very useful
for many people. However, it goes far beyond what I was suggesting.
I was thinking more along the lines of just a list of all the terms
by category and alpha linked to the appropriate doc page. If a
suitable template were provided, the knowledgeable AB users
themselves could fill in the blanks over a period of time. I have
used other languages like SuperCard and Revolution that have this
level of user documentation built right into the program UI. And
these languages are 10 times richer than AFL, so they really need
this. What the beginner needs once they get started (with the help
of the good people here) is a good built-in or web based "Cheat
Sheet" to help them remember what they need in AFL until it becomes
ingrained. Then when things do not work out as expected, they can
come here for more complex help. I have been through this many times
before in the last several decades, and have written manuals for
languages along these lines with ancient computer technology.
Dennis
On Apr 24, 2007, at 9:50 PM, brian_z321 wrote:
> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Dennis Brown <see3d@xxx> wrote:
>
>> However, for beginners, first reading
>> the documentation, they are overwhelmed with information and do not
>> retain enough when they are trying to write AFL. This can be seen
>> over and over on this site, as newbies are chastised for not reading
>> all the information --when they actually did, but could not retain
>> enough or remember where to find it again.
>>
>> I retain information when I need to use it, and I apply it to a real
>> problem.
>
> Hello Dennis,
>
> As I read through your post I ticked every one of your points.
>
> Discussion in this area is a recurring theme in the forum, which to me
> validates the issue.
>
> The standard of the help manual in Ami is around about the norm for
> software; give or take a bit.
> Tomasz is a very good logician and writer.
> He also has a lot of empathy for others, which is a pre-requisite for
> good teaching.
>
> So, what is the problem?
>
> Rightly or wrongly Tomasz has chosen a particular business model;
> community effort and self-help plays a significant role.
>
> Personally, I like and support the model.
> I believe it is the correct approach for the age and that as usual
> Tomasz is a few steps ahead of the majority.
>
> The AmiBroker platform is in fact a wonderful teaching medium, it us
> just that the help component is partly covert and people don't notice
> it, or appreciate it, as much as formal presentations.
> Formal help is relatively static, has definite boundaries and ends
> with
> the last full stop.
> Community based help is the opposite.
> I believe Ami has a good mix of both.
>
> This is no accident, as in IMO, Tomasz is totally aware of what he is
> doing at all levels and has factored in user education.
> He has said in this forum that Ami is not perfect, that there is room
> for improvement and that the help manual already contains so many
> pages
> it has reached it's natural limit.
> He has also said it would take 10 years for him to explain himself in
> writing, which is also true, and the reason for my impertinence in
> presuming to speak on his behalf.
>
> In the case of documentation, it is not that the documentation is sub-
> standard but rather that AmiBroker is so feature rich and open
> structured that no amount of documentation can do it justice.
>
> On top of that, to improve it, Tomasz would have to stop development
> and start writing more help material and/or employ others to do that
> for him, with a significant price increase.
> Everyone who wants Tomasz to do that please put your hand up.
>
> I agree with your point that the help manual could benefit from a
> little more tabulation here and there but that is entirely up to
> Tomasz.
> Keep in mind that I am a tabulation freak and maybe Tomasz and others
> don't see it the same way.
>
> What can we do about it?
>
> First of all, we can not expect Tomasz to do anymore.
> He is already doing everything he can.
> Tomasz is listening and has in fact made many slight adjustments to
> the
> program in recent times e.g. KnowledgeBase and DevLog.
>
> There is actually nothing wrong with the Ami platform, nothing major
> anyway.
> It is way ahead of the rest.
> At the same time let's follow Tomasz'z lead and strive for further
> development and improvement.
>
>
> My suggestions?
>
> The forum is a wonderful supplement to Ami help.
> Look at the quality of discussion in the last few days.
> IMO the forum is functioning quite well.
>
> There are things, however, that a forum can't do.
> They are not proactive places so *we* tend to end up providing the
> same
> answer over and over in some cases.
>
> I have been nagging away privately and publically about this and
> related issues for a while; reference project based training, visual
> teaching aids, inadequate group file area, need for a proactive
> approach etc.
>
> I stress that this is nothing new and plenty of others are and have
> been involved in similar crusades.
>
>
> To cut to the chase.
>
> I have recently filed a suggestion with Tomasz about a home away from
> home for proactive Ami users.
>
> Their is a draft mockup at
>
> http://www.amibroker.org/3rdparty/UserKnowledgeBase/
>
> I provided this as support for my suggestion.
> There are a couple of demo files there in various stages of
> production.
> In the last month or two I have posted one or two example *training*
> files in response to questions raised in the forum.
>
> At the same time Herman was discussing a possible collaborative effort
> in the AmiBroker-at forum.
>
> Tomasz has responded publically and privately to suggestions and
> discussion about providing a more formal vehicle for users to share
> knowledge .
>
> I am confident that there will be outcomes from these discussions.
> As always they won't be perfect and they do rely on compromise and co-
> operation between individuals and AmiBroker.
> If something eventuates, IMO, it will be a step forward for the group
> and fill a large hole that exists in the platform at the moment.
>
> The part I played was minor, however, since I am in a position to
> update the forum to some extent I have done so.
>
> Brian.
>
>
>
> Please note that this group is for discussion between users only.
>
> To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly to
> SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
>
> For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check DEVLOG:
> http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/
>
> For other support material please check also:
> http://www.amibroker.com/support.html
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Please note that this group is for discussion between users only.
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SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
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