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Paul,
I am pleased to hear good things about Premium Data (go the
Aussies!).
If you are interested in some reading material enter #99927 in the
message search box when in individual message view>click go and when
message 99927 comes up change to group view.
You will then be able to scroll through the topic from the top.
It is a topic on script language.
There is a link there in one of my posts to a down-loadable
Microsoft file that I found helpful.
Tomasz pointed out to me that it is not all that relevant to AFL but
it still helped me to put some things in context.
I only read one of the sections in the download as that was all I
needed at the time (I think I read the JScript part; anyway
whichever part is the easiest is the one I read).
There is also a post there from Graham with links to some
*educational* websites.
The W3 site was handy.
There is a lot of free stuff on the web if you need it.
Go back to individual message view and repeat for 99213.
It has the title of a basic programming book that I bought that I
was happy with.
After the first few chapters the penny dropped and I was quite
comfortable with learning AFL as a stand alone language without
reference to other languages.
If I come up against any programming challenges later on I can
always go back to the text books.
BrianB2.
--- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "paulradge" <paulradge@xxx> wrote:
>
> hi Brian,,
> thank you for your kind words and also thank you to
Michael Mann as that one is also due from me,,
>
> Brian,,,i've now joined premium data and within their trial
period,, and very happy with their very easy to use installation
within amibroker of the data base and history and 1 click update of
data,the cost is very good also compared to other providers and i'm
looking at keeping both ASX and US data for my swing trading.
>
> i think Michael hit the nail on the head with his comment i'm
trying to jump start the language,,,i've found a rose in amongst the
weeds in the library thats more than satisfying to my current
trading style so now i'm going to learn this funny language,
>
> i've watched all the tutorial video's and now into the other
areas of reading about creating own explorations etc and actually
doing the white belt stuff of aping the examples,,,
>
> so i'll put my dummy back in my mouth grab teddy and chuck him
back under my arm after sowing his arms and legs back on and soldier
on,,
>
> considering buying C for Dummy's to get a grip of the array
business but will search around here see if there's something about,
>
> thank you for your post,,
> no doubt i'll be back with more beginner questions
>
> warm regards
> Paul
>
>
>
>
> Subject: [amibroker] Re: Amibroker vs. other software
>
>
> Hello Paul,
>
> I noticed your opening posts.
> I was going to take them if someone else didn't.
>
> We all have to start somewhere.
> One step at a time.
>
> Unfortunately there are not enough hours in the day for *the
forum*
> to answer every single question or give perfect answers.
> There are a lot of us who would like to do that if we could.
>
> I highly recommend using the search functions to find stuff in
the
> group archives.
> It is tedious but I have turned up a lot of good advice from
that
> source.
> I would like to read every one of the 100k posts but I don't
think
> anyone will ever do it.
> I simply search for answers to specific questions, especially
> searching by function name.
> I usually get my answer.
>
> O.K.
>
> If you don't know Xcel just learn AFL, full stop, although
learning
> a little about the basics of Xcel would be an excellent training
> exercise if you want to go that way and you already own it (just
> learn how a row of data is arithmetically manipulated and how
that
> flows into the next row (array)).
> Compare that to the array example given in the help manual.
> Tomasz is always mega-phoning the benefits of learning the array
> concept, and for good reason.
> I think there is some additional examples of array processing
using
> trading signals in the Houston lecture PDF file which is
floating
> around somewhere (this is slightly more advanced).
> It will take time until it clicks but believe me it is not
rocket
> science.
> If it was I wouldn't be doing it.
>
> Know your limitations; I don't try to trade like Fred, he's an
Alpha-
> Tech and I am not.
> I trade like Brian.z123, end of story.
> I did copy his Polynomial stuff though because one day I might
try
> to follow the logic and expand my repertoire or just learn
something
> that looks like it is hard for me to do (strengthen my
weaknesses).
>
> Top up your AFL study up with a little background on basic
> programming as you need it (available on the net).
>
> I advise downloading a very small database from Yahoo, say one
month
> only, and use that as your training database ( the DowJones
> constituent list provided by Ami is perfect.
> I use that for training.
> With only one month of data available I can view everything I am
> doing on the chart without scrolling.
> For training purposes, try a function out, or try some code and
then
> plot everything you can think of that relates to your code so
you
> can see what the function/code is doing.
> Use explorer to *print* the results of functions/code and
compare
> that to what you are seeing in your charts.
>
> That is how I learn and also how I design systems.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Don't be embarrassed to ask simple questions....the forum
definitely
> has a lot of time for sincere effort.
>
> BrianB2.
>
> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "paulradge" <paulradge@> wrote:
> >
> > Graham,,
> > that was a good read,,,for me,,someone with his
> head blown apart but i know nothing of excel,
> > P
> >
> >
> >
> > Sorry, I should have checked that I had replied privately
about
> this AFL
> > The code was prepared for customers
> >
> > --
> > Cheers
> > Graham
> > AB-Write >< Professional AFL Writing Service
> > Yes, I write AFL code to your requirements
> > http://www.aflwriting.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 17/10/06, brian.z123 <brian.z123@> wrote:
> > Hello Jlami11,
> >
> > The virtues of AB are often extolled in this forum (along with
> the
> > vices) but I don't think I have seen a post that even goes
> close to
> > doing it justice.
> > Tomasz is too modest to list all the good points in one place
> > himself, although God knows that after 100k posts it is well
> overdue.
> > Here is my attempt that will have to suffice until bettered.
> >
> >
>
*******************************************************************
> > Conclusion:
> >
> > The bad news is that it takes a lot of patience to master
> AmiBroker,
> > especially for those who are not seasoned traders/programmers.
> > The good new is that it is worth the effort.
> > If there is a better program out there Tomasz would have known
> about
> > it a long time ago ;-)
> >
> > (If you are in a hurry skip to list at the bottom of the post).
> >
> >
>
*******************************************************************
> >
> > An interesting question.
> > As a relatively new Ami user I can empathise with you.
> > Keep in mind that there is no *holy grail* of software or
> anything
> > else in trading.
> > Also my only intention is to offer help to you and give credit
> to
> > AmiBroker where it is due.
> >
> > What you are really asking is; "Will AmiBroker be worth the
> time I
> > will have to put in to learn it, will I be capable of learning
> it
> > and what will I be able to do with it when I am competent?",
> > (that is like looking for your glasses!).
> > Ultimately you are the only one who can answer that.
> >
> > You need to clarify how serious you are about trading and
> clearly
> > state your trading objectives to yourself first.
> > I am continually amazed by the number of people who come into
> this
> > forum and who, presumably, want to be winning traders, but
> obviously
> > do not have a winning attitude (I am not suggesting that is
> you. I
> > am simply providing some context to my comments).
> > If that is the case they can not blame the software for their
> > eventual and inevitable failure.
> >
> >
> > My experiences may provide some guideance for you.
> >
> > I am a non-programmer, non-mathematician and a self-taught
> computer
> > layperson.
> > I do not have a tertiary education.
> > I am probably of above average intelligence but I don't know
> exactly
> > where I am on that line and I have no interest in finding out.
> > Fortunately I do have abilities and talents of some kind that
> get me
> > by, althoguh I am not sure exactly what they are either.
> >
> > Four years ago I had zero experience in investment of any kind
> when
> > I set myself very high investment goals.
> > I will rephrase the last part; I knew specifically what I
> wanted to
> > achieve as an investor (if the format would allow it I would
> bold or
> > underline specifically, as in, the % return I am going to get
> and
> > the hours per week I am going to get it in).
> > After the intitial learning phase I also quickly identified
> what
> > investment styles I *believed* in and which ones suited my
> personal
> > characterstics and objectives e.g. I don't want to spend hours
> > reading company reports, financials etc so I went away from
> that
> > type of trading.
> > Once again I would underline *belief* and *personal
> characteristics*.
> >
> > In short, when I bought AB I knew why I was buying it.
> > At that stage I had already settled on *trading* as my chosen
> > primary investment vehicle and I also had a definite trading
> style.
> > I wanted to use AB as the tool to develop and implement that
> on a
> > wider scale.
> > I am continually improving and growing so I never say never as
> far
> > as trading goes but so far nothing I have learnt in AmiWorld
> has
> > changed my view on trading; it has simply confirmed and
> enhanced it.
> >
> > I didn't know exactly what I was getting with AB but I did
> exchange
> > a couple of emails with support in which I discussed the
> capability
> > of AB in the key areas of my interest.
> > My questions were somewhat naive, and Tomasz probably
> scratched his
> > head a little, but he gave me a professional reply.
> > Specifically I enquired about customising my own stops and one
> or
> > two other similar questions, as I do not trade in anything I
> don't
> > understand.
> > If I can code it myself I definitely understand it.
> >
> > I had also found that what passes as folklore in common
> investment
> > culture more often than not does not stand up to analysis, so I
> > prefer to go my own way; no *canned* anything for me.
> >
> > My conclusion was that on the balance of probability AB would
> do the
> > job. I also formed a favourable impression of the
> CEO/developer i.e.
> > he was obviously no dummy with an exceptional empathy for his
> users
> > and that is an important thing when buying and using trading
> > software.
> > You have to have confidence.
> > (That wasn't too bad an assessment based on two short emails
> was it?
> > Time has proven that to be spot on).
> >
> > Like all products, only long term ownership will provide a
> complete
> > answer to buyer satisfaction, so I went ahead and purchased.
> > I am quite used to spending money on dead leads etc; that is
> normal
> > business practise and I consider it to be a part of development
> > costs.
> > I didn't hesitate to spend USD$199 on Ami.
> > Like any business, there was no guarentee that cost would ever
> be
> > recouped. That is not to mention the intellectual capital
> invested
> > e.g. my first 2 trading years and $15000 were purely
> speculative
> > ventures, until I reached a point where I was able to prove to
> > myself that, compared to the majority, I was quite good at it.
> >
> > For the record my trading disposition is objective, mechanical
> > system, TA based, but I do keep an open mind and will snap up
> > anything that works.
> > I consider myself to be a developing trader.
> > It is not something that can be mastered in a few hundred or
> even a
> > few thousand hours; not from my background anyway.
> >
> >
> > I could write a book on the subject, and I might one day, but
> to cut
> > to the chase.
> >
> > I have used a lot of other market programs but my experience is
> > lightweight compared to some in this group.
> > I will benchmark my comments against the last program I used,
> which
> > was one of the majors.
> > I was very happy with it in every respect until after 1000's of
> > hours of commitment to learning it, I found it couldn't
> actually do
> > what I really needed it to.
> > The backtester didn't work, at least not the way I expected it
> too,
> > and at that time my expectations were not as high as they are
> now.
> >
> > I managed to jig around that problem by using the programs
> explorer
> > as a psuedo-backtester and exporting the results to Xcel for
> > analysis.
> > I was proud of myself, as a non-programmer, for achieving that.
> > I set up four older computers with a KVM switch as my test-
> bank and
> > reeled off a few thousand hours of backtesting until I simply
> came
> > to the end of the line, fullstop.
> > Why stuff around with homemade backtesters when there are
> > professionals writing and maintaining them for a living?
> >
> > Hence AmiBroker, which incidentally was recommended to me by
> the
> > developer of a quite well known money management program.
> >
> > It was very hard to have to start all over again in a new
> program,
> > especially after being able to use the old one fluently.
> > The first 3 months of Ami were very de-motivating.
> > I found it to be a hard program to learn and I had to grit my
> teeth
> > more than a few times.
> > One of the reasons it is hard to learn is that it has a lot
> more
> > depth and breadth than my previous program.
> > That automatically demands more learning time.
> > It also has a different business model to what most of us have
> come
> > to expect e.g the manual in AB is not a textbook that is
> posted in
> > the mail nor is it merely the help files.
> > The *manual* in Ami is dynamic and offers a lot more than help
> files
> > but it is also less structured.
> > It also leaves out a few bits and pieces here and there that a
> lot
> > of beginners would expect to find.
> > I am comfortable with that but some people aren't.
> > It is not a good system for beginners but it is a great system
> for
> > seasoned performers.
> > Why begrudge them that; they are entitled to their place in the
> > world?
> > I guess in a way, that makes Ami a boutique program, although
> I am
> > sure Tomasz will correct me if that is wrong.
> > My attitude is; "if you can't beat them join them".
> > I am playing catch-up at a furious rate.
> >
> >
> > My trading objectives are very high.
> > I bought AB in the belief that it was the program most likely
> to
> > enable me to meet those objectives.
> > I have had the program approx 6 months and have spent a lot of
> hours
> > per week on it.
> > I don't have the definitive answer but so far AB has not
> > disappointed.
> > The ultimate responsibility is not on Tomasz's shoulders, it
> is on
> > mine.
> > Initially Tomasz answered my *buying* questions and provided a
> free
> > trial.
> > It was my decision to buy.
> > Let the buyer beware.
> >
> >
> > I am continually learning and improving so the things I want
> to do
> > in the future may well be different from my current
> expectations but
> > I am confident Ami will accommodate my growth.
> > I have said that if I don't achieve my trading goals with Ami
> there
> > will not be another program, which is my way of saying that
> Ami is
> > good enough if I am good enough.
> > I do have a cut off point and I will retire my trading career
> if I
> > retire Ami.
> >
> > I won't look back and list the negatives of other programs.
> > I will not list the negatives of AmiBroker either (I am into
> > positivity) although I will say it is not perfect.
> >
> >
>
******************************************************************
> >
> > My list of AB positives (not in any particular order):
> >
> > 1. price
> > 2. *fully* customiseable
> > 3. distant horizon (most traders will never exceed its ability.
> > Those who do exceed AB's limits don't mind sharing their
> > knowledge and Tomasz doesn't like coming second so that should
> tell
> > you something).
> > 4. transparent and controllable
> > 5. honest dialogue
> > 6. ethical company
> > 7. allows use with a wide range of data providers
> > 8. cheap and free data options for those who need that
> > 9. trading orientated program (truly for traders by traders)
> > 10. trading friendships
> > 11. trading mentorships
> > 12. active forum with a sprinkling of diverse specialists
> > 13. quick responses to program 'bugs'
> > 14. 24-48 hour support
> > 15. rapid pace of development
> > 16. responsive to suggestions
> > 17. extensive support material albeit hard to find at first
> > 18. open architecture
> > 19. personal contact with CEO
> > 20. CEO accepts and answers criticism in public
> > 21. trading specific programming language (you don't need to
> learn
> > C++ etc just learn AFL. If that is your first language it will
> be a
> > challenge but I am doing it. I only read half a dummies book,
> > quarter of an online manual on scripting and a bit of
> Wikipedia here
> > and there and away I went. My prior formula language and
> backtesting
> > experience does help though).
> > 22. the last market software program I will ever have to master
> > 23. challenging
> > 24. offers trading opportunities I hadn't thought of before
> > 25. good rapport with and respect for the developer
> > 26. provides easy access to basic fundamental data in formulas
> > 27. provides access to unlimited external database (especially
> > useful for referencing extensive fundamental databases)
> > 28. cheap and reliable *industry standard* charting program
> for
> > those who just want that
> > 29. time efficient (there are no unneccessary frills anywhere
> in
> > Amiworld. If anything there are probably not enough frills
> depending
> > on who you ask).
> > 30. mature program (10+ years)
> > 31. extensive library (official and unofficial) of popular
> industry
> > indicators etc
> > 32. licenced to use on more than one machine
> > 33. speed
> > 34. 64 bit and dual core processors not a future problem?
> > 35. backward compatibility not a problem?
> > 36. has trading orientated functions the others do not have?
> > 37. array based processing which is a very *commonsense*
> approach
> > for laypeople. Use is analagous to Xcel spreadsheet rows
> except for
> > more advanced uses where programming procedures like looping
> come
> > into play (when you can see your code output being written
> into Xcel
> > rows in your minds eye you are nearly there).
> > I have spent a lot of time in Xcel prior to AB so that helps
> me to
> > step into AFL. If you are good with Xcel functions you will
> > definitely be good with AFL.
> > 38. industry standard *canned scans* are easily achievable with
> > simple code
> > 39. It is a very pragmatic program e.g I have 5-10 tasks on my
> > advanced list that are industry wide trader breakers. I have
> already
> > cracked two or three of those in Ami without even getting out
> of
> > second gear and I am optimistic about the rest (Null data
> handling,
> > custom indexes and survivor bias are the first three demons to
> bite
> > the dust).
> > 40. readily perform trainging examples and problem solve using
> > explorer.
> > 41. ASCII import for the data masochists
> >
> > In short it does exactly what the publicity blurb on the
> homepage
> > says it will do, and more!
> >
> >
> > There are probably additional postives but a mint tea and a
> bowl of
> > muesli is calling.
> >
> > BrianB2. =8-)
> >
> > P.S Tomasz, this doesn't provide you future immunity from my
> > withering critiques.
> >
> > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "jlami11" <jlami11@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I just wanted to know how Amibroker compares to other
> software.
> > >
> > > In particular I heard tradingblox was pretty good and could
> do
> > alot,
> > > while requiring less programming. Or would programming
> required be
> > the
> > > same if more advanced functions were needed e.g. dynamic pos
> > sizing,
> > > dynamic risk control etc etc.
> > >
> > > Has anyone used tradingblox? and if Amibroker and
> Tradingblox were
> > the
> > > same price, which one would you prefer?
> > >
> > > Lastly is Amibroker generally superior to other software? I
> ask
> > this
> > > as I come from a non-programming background and would not be
> easy
> > for
> > > me to adapt to diff. software in future.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance any help is appreciated.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please note that this group is for discussion between users
> only.
> >
> > To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly to
> > SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
> >
> > For other support material please check also:
> > http://www.amibroker.com/support.html
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
>
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