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hi Brian,,
thank you for your kind words and also thank you to Michael Mann as that one is also due from me,,
Brian,,,i've now joined premium data and within their trial period,, and very happy with their very easy to use installation within amibroker of the data base and history and 1 click update of data,the cost is very good also compared to other providers and i'm looking at keeping both ASX and US data for my swing trading.
i think Michael hit the nail on the head with his comment i'm trying to jump start the language,,,i've found a rose in amongst the weeds in the library thats more than satisfying to my current trading style so now i'm going to learn this funny language,
i've watched all the tutorial video's and now into the other areas of reading about creating own explorations etc and actually doing the white belt stuff of aping the examples,,,
so i'll put my dummy back in my mouth grab teddy and chuck him back under my arm after sowing his arms and legs back on and soldier on,,
considering buying C for Dummy's to get a grip of the array business but will search around here see if there's something about,
thank you for your post,,
no doubt i'll be back with more beginner questions
warm regards
Paul
Subject: [amibroker] Re: Amibroker vs. other software
Hello Paul,
I noticed your opening posts.
I was going to take them if someone else didn't.
We all have to start somewhere.
One step at a time.
Unfortunately there are not enough hours in the day for *the forum*
to answer every single question or give perfect answers.
There are a lot of us who would like to do that if we could.
I highly recommend using the search functions to find stuff in the
group archives.
It is tedious but I have turned up a lot of good advice from that
source.
I would like to read every one of the 100k posts but I don't think
anyone will ever do it.
I simply search for answers to specific questions, especially
searching by function name.
I usually get my answer.
O.K.
If you don't know Xcel just learn AFL, full stop, although learning
a little about the basics of Xcel would be an excellent training
exercise if you want to go that way and you already own it (just
learn how a row of data is arithmetically manipulated and how that
flows into the next row (array)).
Compare that to the array example given in the help manual.
Tomasz is always mega-phoning the benefits of learning the array
concept, and for good reason.
I think there is some additional examples of array processing using
trading signals in the Houston lecture PDF file which is floating
around somewhere (this is slightly more advanced).
It will take time until it clicks but believe me it is not rocket
science.
If it was I wouldn't be doing it.
Know your limitations; I don't try to trade like Fred, he's an Alpha-
Tech and I am not.
I trade like Brian.z123, end of story.
I did copy his Polynomial stuff though because one day I might try
to follow the logic and expand my repertoire or just learn something
that looks like it is hard for me to do (strengthen my weaknesses).
Top up your AFL study up with a little background on basic
programming as you need it (available on the net).
I advise downloading a very small database from Yahoo, say one month
only, and use that as your training database ( the DowJones
constituent list provided by Ami is perfect.
I use that for training.
With only one month of data available I can view everything I am
doing on the chart without scrolling.
For training purposes, try a function out, or try some code and then
plot everything you can think of that relates to your code so you
can see what the function/code is doing.
Use explorer to *print* the results of functions/code and compare
that to what you are seeing in your charts.
That is how I learn and also how I design systems.
Good luck,
Don't be embarrassed to ask simple questions....the forum definitely
has a lot of time for sincere effort.
BrianB2.
--- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "paulradge" <paulradge@xxx> wrote:
>
> Graham,,
> that was a good read,,,for me,,someone with his
head blown apart but i know nothing of excel,
> P
>
>
>
> Sorry, I should have checked that I had replied privately about
this AFL
> The code was prepared for customers
>
> --
> Cheers
> Graham
> AB-Write >< Professional AFL Writing Service
> Yes, I write AFL code to your requirements
> http://www.aflwriting.com
>
>
>
>
> On 17/10/06, brian.z123 <brian.z123@xxx> wrote:
> Hello Jlami11,
>
> The virtues of AB are often extolled in this forum (along with
the
> vices) but I don't think I have seen a post that even goes
close to
> doing it justice.
> Tomasz is too modest to list all the good points in one place
> himself, although God knows that after 100k posts it is well
overdue.
> Here is my attempt that will have to suffice until bettered.
>
>
*******************************************************************
> Conclusion:
>
> The bad news is that it takes a lot of patience to master
AmiBroker,
> especially for those who are not seasoned traders/programmers.
> The good new is that it is worth the effort.
> If there is a better program out there Tomasz would have known
about
> it a long time ago ;-)
>
> (If you are in a hurry skip to list at the bottom of the post).
>
>
*******************************************************************
>
> An interesting question.
> As a relatively new Ami user I can empathise with you.
> Keep in mind that there is no *holy grail* of software or
anything
> else in trading.
> Also my only intention is to offer help to you and give credit
to
> AmiBroker where it is due.
>
> What you are really asking is; "Will AmiBroker be worth the
time I
> will have to put in to learn it, will I be capable of learning
it
> and what will I be able to do with it when I am competent?",
> (that is like looking for your glasses!).
> Ultimately you are the only one who can answer that.
>
> You need to clarify how serious you are about trading and
clearly
> state your trading objectives to yourself first.
> I am continually amazed by the number of people who come into
this
> forum and who, presumably, want to be winning traders, but
obviously
> do not have a winning attitude (I am not suggesting that is
you. I
> am simply providing some context to my comments).
> If that is the case they can not blame the software for their
> eventual and inevitable failure.
>
>
> My experiences may provide some guideance for you.
>
> I am a non-programmer, non-mathematician and a self-taught
computer
> layperson.
> I do not have a tertiary education.
> I am probably of above average intelligence but I don't know
exactly
> where I am on that line and I have no interest in finding out.
> Fortunately I do have abilities and talents of some kind that
get me
> by, althoguh I am not sure exactly what they are either.
>
> Four years ago I had zero experience in investment of any kind
when
> I set myself very high investment goals.
> I will rephrase the last part; I knew specifically what I
wanted to
> achieve as an investor (if the format would allow it I would
bold or
> underline specifically, as in, the % return I am going to get
and
> the hours per week I am going to get it in).
> After the intitial learning phase I also quickly identified
what
> investment styles I *believed* in and which ones suited my
personal
> characterstics and objectives e.g. I don't want to spend hours
> reading company reports, financials etc so I went away from
that
> type of trading.
> Once again I would underline *belief* and *personal
characteristics*.
>
> In short, when I bought AB I knew why I was buying it.
> At that stage I had already settled on *trading* as my chosen
> primary investment vehicle and I also had a definite trading
style.
> I wanted to use AB as the tool to develop and implement that
on a
> wider scale.
> I am continually improving and growing so I never say never as
far
> as trading goes but so far nothing I have learnt in AmiWorld
has
> changed my view on trading; it has simply confirmed and
enhanced it.
>
> I didn't know exactly what I was getting with AB but I did
exchange
> a couple of emails with support in which I discussed the
capability
> of AB in the key areas of my interest.
> My questions were somewhat naive, and Tomasz probably
scratched his
> head a little, but he gave me a professional reply.
> Specifically I enquired about customising my own stops and one
or
> two other similar questions, as I do not trade in anything I
don't
> understand.
> If I can code it myself I definitely understand it.
>
> I had also found that what passes as folklore in common
investment
> culture more often than not does not stand up to analysis, so I
> prefer to go my own way; no *canned* anything for me.
>
> My conclusion was that on the balance of probability AB would
do the
> job. I also formed a favourable impression of the
CEO/developer i.e.
> he was obviously no dummy with an exceptional empathy for his
users
> and that is an important thing when buying and using trading
> software.
> You have to have confidence.
> (That wasn't too bad an assessment based on two short emails
was it?
> Time has proven that to be spot on).
>
> Like all products, only long term ownership will provide a
complete
> answer to buyer satisfaction, so I went ahead and purchased.
> I am quite used to spending money on dead leads etc; that is
normal
> business practise and I consider it to be a part of development
> costs.
> I didn't hesitate to spend USD$199 on Ami.
> Like any business, there was no guarentee that cost would ever
be
> recouped. That is not to mention the intellectual capital
invested
> e.g. my first 2 trading years and $15000 were purely
speculative
> ventures, until I reached a point where I was able to prove to
> myself that, compared to the majority, I was quite good at it.
>
> For the record my trading disposition is objective, mechanical
> system, TA based, but I do keep an open mind and will snap up
> anything that works.
> I consider myself to be a developing trader.
> It is not something that can be mastered in a few hundred or
even a
> few thousand hours; not from my background anyway.
>
>
> I could write a book on the subject, and I might one day, but
to cut
> to the chase.
>
> I have used a lot of other market programs but my experience is
> lightweight compared to some in this group.
> I will benchmark my comments against the last program I used,
which
> was one of the majors.
> I was very happy with it in every respect until after 1000's of
> hours of commitment to learning it, I found it couldn't
actually do
> what I really needed it to.
> The backtester didn't work, at least not the way I expected it
too,
> and at that time my expectations were not as high as they are
now.
>
> I managed to jig around that problem by using the programs
explorer
> as a psuedo-backtester and exporting the results to Xcel for
> analysis.
> I was proud of myself, as a non-programmer, for achieving that.
> I set up four older computers with a KVM switch as my test-
bank and
> reeled off a few thousand hours of backtesting until I simply
came
> to the end of the line, fullstop.
> Why stuff around with homemade backtesters when there are
> professionals writing and maintaining them for a living?
>
> Hence AmiBroker, which incidentally was recommended to me by
the
> developer of a quite well known money management program.
>
> It was very hard to have to start all over again in a new
program,
> especially after being able to use the old one fluently.
> The first 3 months of Ami were very de-motivating.
> I found it to be a hard program to learn and I had to grit my
teeth
> more than a few times.
> One of the reasons it is hard to learn is that it has a lot
more
> depth and breadth than my previous program.
> That automatically demands more learning time.
> It also has a different business model to what most of us have
come
> to expect e.g the manual in AB is not a textbook that is
posted in
> the mail nor is it merely the help files.
> The *manual* in Ami is dynamic and offers a lot more than help
files
> but it is also less structured.
> It also leaves out a few bits and pieces here and there that a
lot
> of beginners would expect to find.
> I am comfortable with that but some people aren't.
> It is not a good system for beginners but it is a great system
for
> seasoned performers.
> Why begrudge them that; they are entitled to their place in the
> world?
> I guess in a way, that makes Ami a boutique program, although
I am
> sure Tomasz will correct me if that is wrong.
> My attitude is; "if you can't beat them join them".
> I am playing catch-up at a furious rate.
>
>
> My trading objectives are very high.
> I bought AB in the belief that it was the program most likely
to
> enable me to meet those objectives.
> I have had the program approx 6 months and have spent a lot of
hours
> per week on it.
> I don't have the definitive answer but so far AB has not
> disappointed.
> The ultimate responsibility is not on Tomasz's shoulders, it
is on
> mine.
> Initially Tomasz answered my *buying* questions and provided a
free
> trial.
> It was my decision to buy.
> Let the buyer beware.
>
>
> I am continually learning and improving so the things I want
to do
> in the future may well be different from my current
expectations but
> I am confident Ami will accommodate my growth.
> I have said that if I don't achieve my trading goals with Ami
there
> will not be another program, which is my way of saying that
Ami is
> good enough if I am good enough.
> I do have a cut off point and I will retire my trading career
if I
> retire Ami.
>
> I won't look back and list the negatives of other programs.
> I will not list the negatives of AmiBroker either (I am into
> positivity) although I will say it is not perfect.
>
>
******************************************************************
>
> My list of AB positives (not in any particular order):
>
> 1. price
> 2. *fully* customiseable
> 3. distant horizon (most traders will never exceed its ability.
> Those who do exceed AB's limits don't mind sharing their
> knowledge and Tomasz doesn't like coming second so that should
tell
> you something).
> 4. transparent and controllable
> 5. honest dialogue
> 6. ethical company
> 7. allows use with a wide range of data providers
> 8. cheap and free data options for those who need that
> 9. trading orientated program (truly for traders by traders)
> 10. trading friendships
> 11. trading mentorships
> 12. active forum with a sprinkling of diverse specialists
> 13. quick responses to program 'bugs'
> 14. 24-48 hour support
> 15. rapid pace of development
> 16. responsive to suggestions
> 17. extensive support material albeit hard to find at first
> 18. open architecture
> 19. personal contact with CEO
> 20. CEO accepts and answers criticism in public
> 21. trading specific programming language (you don't need to
learn
> C++ etc just learn AFL. If that is your first language it will
be a
> challenge but I am doing it. I only read half a dummies book,
> quarter of an online manual on scripting and a bit of
Wikipedia here
> and there and away I went. My prior formula language and
backtesting
> experience does help though).
> 22. the last market software program I will ever have to master
> 23. challenging
> 24. offers trading opportunities I hadn't thought of before
> 25. good rapport with and respect for the developer
> 26. provides easy access to basic fundamental data in formulas
> 27. provides access to unlimited external database (especially
> useful for referencing extensive fundamental databases)
> 28. cheap and reliable *industry standard* charting program
for
> those who just want that
> 29. time efficient (there are no unneccessary frills anywhere
in
> Amiworld. If anything there are probably not enough frills
depending
> on who you ask).
> 30. mature program (10+ years)
> 31. extensive library (official and unofficial) of popular
industry
> indicators etc
> 32. licenced to use on more than one machine
> 33. speed
> 34. 64 bit and dual core processors not a future problem?
> 35. backward compatibility not a problem?
> 36. has trading orientated functions the others do not have?
> 37. array based processing which is a very *commonsense*
approach
> for laypeople. Use is analagous to Xcel spreadsheet rows
except for
> more advanced uses where programming procedures like looping
come
> into play (when you can see your code output being written
into Xcel
> rows in your minds eye you are nearly there).
> I have spent a lot of time in Xcel prior to AB so that helps
me to
> step into AFL. If you are good with Xcel functions you will
> definitely be good with AFL.
> 38. industry standard *canned scans* are easily achievable with
> simple code
> 39. It is a very pragmatic program e.g I have 5-10 tasks on my
> advanced list that are industry wide trader breakers. I have
already
> cracked two or three of those in Ami without even getting out
of
> second gear and I am optimistic about the rest (Null data
handling,
> custom indexes and survivor bias are the first three demons to
bite
> the dust).
> 40. readily perform trainging examples and problem solve using
> explorer.
> 41. ASCII import for the data masochists
>
> In short it does exactly what the publicity blurb on the
homepage
> says it will do, and more!
>
>
> There are probably additional postives but a mint tea and a
bowl of
> muesli is calling.
>
> BrianB2. =8-)
>
> P.S Tomasz, this doesn't provide you future immunity from my
> withering critiques.
>
> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "jlami11" <jlami11@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I just wanted to know how Amibroker compares to other
software.
> >
> > In particular I heard tradingblox was pretty good and could
do
> alot,
> > while requiring less programming. Or would programming
required be
> the
> > same if more advanced functions were needed e.g. dynamic pos
> sizing,
> > dynamic risk control etc etc.
> >
> > Has anyone used tradingblox? and if Amibroker and
Tradingblox were
> the
> > same price, which one would you prefer?
> >
> > Lastly is Amibroker generally superior to other software? I
ask
> this
> > as I come from a non-programming background and would not be
easy
> for
> > me to adapt to diff. software in future.
> >
> > Thanks in advance any help is appreciated.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Please note that this group is for discussion between users
only.
>
> To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly to
> SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com
>
> For other support material please check also:
> http://www.amibroker.com/support.html
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
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