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RE: [amibroker] Does your Esignal data match your QP2 data???



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Hello,
 
Of course it is possible - using time-compressed 
data.
 
But we should agree that daily data created by compression of 
intraday data
are perfectly valid - in fact they represent _ALL_ actual 
trades. 
Best regards,Tomasz 
Janeczkoamibroker.com
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
>
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  <DIV 
  >From: 
  dingo 
  To: <A title=amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  href="">amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 7:14 
  PM
  Subject: RE: [amibroker] Does your 
  Esignal data match your QP2 data???
  
  <FONT face=Arial 
  color=#0000ff size=2>So, in your opinion is it possible to do what Herman is 
  trying to do ie work on intraday stops, etc but use EOD 
  signals?
  <FONT face=Arial 
  color=#0000ff size=2> 
  <FONT face=Arial 
  color=#0000ff size=2>d
  
    
    
    From: Tomasz Janeczko 
    [mailto:amibroker@xxxxxx] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 1:05 
    PMTo: <A 
    href="">amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSubject: 
    Re: [amibroker] Does your Esignal data match your QP2 
    data???
    
    Herman,
     
    This would lead to much bigger problems than you think. 
    Now daily (compressed) data in intraday database match intraday 
    data.
    This allows to use multiple time frames and price levels 
    in different time frames match each other.
     
    With your suggestion implemented you will have daily 
    data that do not match intraday data. In other words
    your single formula would operate on different 
    data and generate different signals.
    Right now if you calculate highest from intraday it is 
    also highest from daily (compressed) data.
    With your approach this would not work. 
    Best regards,Tomasz 
    Janeczkoamibroker.com
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
    >
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      <DIV 
      >From: 
      Herman van den 
      Bergen 
      To: <A 
      title=amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
      href="">amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
      
      Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:50 
      PM
      Subject: RE: [amibroker] Does your 
      Esignal data match your QP2 data???
      
      <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
      size=2>Thank you Tomasz and others for all your comments however I 
      really think i understand ALL the issues and i am NOT arguing with any of 
      them. The problem has been confirmed: I am not seeking an explanantion; i 
      am seeking a practical solution.
      <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
      size=2> 
      <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
      size=2>The differences appear in all price fields (OHLC) and seem to 
      exceed that which may be caused by Form-T trades so there is no garantee 
      that adding a Form-T filter would solve the problem. If it is an easy 
      test we could try but perhaps the effort would be better spend on 
      development of a function that allows us to access both the eSignal EOD 
      and eSignal RT DB from the same code. I know this will introduce other 
      problems however i think we can code around those.
      <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
      size=2> 
      <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
      size=2>Best regards,
      <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
      size=2>herman
      
        <FONT face=Tahoma 
        size=2>-----Original Message-----From: Tomasz Janeczko 
        [mailto:amibroker@xxxxxx]Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 11:11 
        AMTo: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSubject: Re: 
        [amibroker] Does your Esignal data match your QP2 
        data???Importance: High
        Herman,
        TimeFrameGetPrice as any other timeframe funciton COMPRESSES 
        data.
        In your case it creates DAILY bars from intraday data. Those 
        intraday data contain
        ALL trades, while EOD records published by NASDAQ do NOT include 
        all trades.
        Hence the difference.
         
        As Jayson pointed out this is by nasdaq regulation and you may only 
        wish NOT to receive Form-T
        in intraday data - this is doable but would require changing the 
        plugin to REMOVE Form-T records
        from intraday data.
        Best regards,Tomasz Janeczkoamibroker.com
        <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
        >
          ----- Original Message ----- 
          <DIV 
          >From: 
          Herman van den 
          Bergen 
          To: <A 
          title=amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
          href="">amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
          
          Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 
          5:03 PM
          Subject: RE: [amibroker] Does 
          your Esignal data match your QP2 data???
          
          <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
          size=2>Hello Jayson, I think everybody misses the 
          point.
          <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
          size=2> 
          <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
          size=2>As my subject line indicates I found a significant 
          difference between eSignal/QP2 EOD and eSignal RT data. Initially this 
          was denied, now it is explained. 
          <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
          size=2> 
          <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
          size=2>The point I made and that is missed by most readers 
          remains exactly the same: the data differs significantly and you 
          cannot convert short term EOD systems to RT and expect the same 
          results. BTW, I trade NASDAQ exclusively and wouldn't think of 
          changing, also pre/after hours data is NOT included in the 
          comparison.
          <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
          size=2> 
          <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
          size=2>AmiBroker does not let you access separate EOD and RT databases 
          from one program (as far as I know) so it is impossible to convert 
          complicated code that took years to develop and is based on 
          EOD-quality data to an RT environment. This means that EOD short-term 
          traders will not be able to optimize Stops, Targets and 
          Limit orders with adding RT data; using that type of orders will give 
          you unrealistic results in EOD backtesting. The only solution i can 
          think of is to maintain two databases and develop some form of 
          communication between the RT and EOD instances of AB (Composites don't 
          work because they reside in different DBs).
          <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
          size=2> 
          <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
          size=2>After going around in circles a few times my original question 
          has been answered: eSignal RT OHLC data retrieved using <FONT 
          color=#0000ff size=2>TimeFrameGetPrice() is NOT the same as 
          eSignal or QP2 EOD OHLC data. The reason for this is 
          irrelevant, the fact stands and causes problems in system design and 
          conversion from EOD to RT. Now that this has been confirmed I 
          have to find a way to work around/with it.
          <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
          size=2> 
          <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
          size=2>Thank you for your comments Jason,
          <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
          size=2>best regards,
          <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
          size=2>herman.
          
            <FONT face=Tahoma 
            size=2>-----Original Message-----From: Jayson 
            [mailto:jcasavant@xxxxxxxxxxx]Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 
            2004 10:11 AMTo: 
            amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSubject: RE: [amibroker] Does 
            your Esignal data match your QP2 data???Importance: 
            High
            <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
            size=2>Herman,
            <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
            size=2> 
            <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
            size=2>I think Tomasz hit the nail on the head. Are you finding the 
            errors to be in Nasdaq stocks only? You will not match exactly RT 
            and EOD  because of nasdaq rules. But the real question is, are 
            they errors? I would say no, they are accurate reflections of the 
            nasdaq rules. RT data by design is a zoomed in snapshot of what 
            actually occurred during the trading day and does in fact include 
            trades that the EOD numbers do not see. Did those trades not happen? 
            Of course they did and of course they will be reflected in the 
            decisions of RT traders during the after hours session and again 
            tomorrow in the pre market. Personally I hate the pre and after 
            markets as they just muddy of the waters but nasdaq has them and if 
            you plan to trade RT data you have to learn to live with it. An 
            alternative would be to avoid the Nasdaq stocks for your system 
            testing
             
            <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
            size=2>Regards, 
            Jayson 
            <FONT face=Tahoma 
            size=2>-----Original Message-----From: Herman van den 
            Bergen [mailto:psytek@xxxxxxxx]Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 
            2004 9:13 AMTo: 
            amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSubject: RE: [amibroker] Does 
            your eSignal data match your QP2 data???
            <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
            size=2><SPAN 
            class=796213912-16032004>see 
            also my inline response to 
            Tomasz...
            <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
            size=2><SPAN 
            class=796213912-16032004> 
            <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
            size=2><SPAN 
            class=796213912-16032004>I challenge anybody 
            to produce code that extracts EOD OHLC prices from eSignal RT 
            that "reasonable accurate" matches either eSignal EOD or QP2 data. 
            <FONT face=Arial 
            color=#0000ff size=2>Considering the trend of EOD traders moving 
            into RT this is an important topic; nobody wants to throw out 
            working EOD trading systems that took years to develop; the idea is 
            to improve existing EOD systems with RT data, not to start from 
            scratch developing new systems.
            <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
            size=2> <SPAN 
            class=796213912-16032004>
            <FONT 
            face=Arial>The TimeFrameGetPrice() doesn't seem to help 
            here (see code posted earlier). We 
            may need a way to switch from eSignal RT or eSignal 
            EOD on the fly. The only alternative I see is to 
            run two AB instances and use custom files to share data between 
            them. This means forever synchronizing two code versions for each 
            system, maintain two databases, and develop additional data-sharing 
            code. All this work is a very discouraging thought. If you have a 
            better idea I'd like to hear from you.
            <SPAN 
            class=796213912-16032004> 
            If somebody proves 
            me wrong (wouldn't be the first time) I will humbly and publicly 
            post a retraction and apology.
            <SPAN 
            class=796213912-16032004> 
            <SPAN 
            class=796213912-16032004>best 
            regards,
            <SPAN 
            class=796213912-16032004>herman
            <SPAN 
            class=796213912-16032004> <FONT 
            color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
            class=796213912-16032004>
            
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              <FONT 
              face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----From: 
              Tomasz Janeczko [mailto:amibroker@xxxxxx]Sent: Tuesday, 
              March 16, 2004 4:15 AMTo: 
              amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSubject: Re: [amibroker] Does 
              your eSignal data match your QP2 data???Importance: 
              High
              Herman,
               
              As I wrote you in a separate e-mail: if you are 
              in EST time zone you should turn on pre/after hours filtering and 
              set
              START time to 9:30 and END time to 15:59. If you 
              set it otherwise open or close price may be slightly 
              different
              than QP2 data because of after hours trading 
              being accounted. So please check start-end times you have 
              in
              File->Database Settings->Intraday 
              Settings. <FONT face=Arial 
              color=#0000ff>  
              <FONT face=Arial 
              color=#0000ff> 
              <FONT face=Arial 
              color=#0000ff>Tomasz, I followed all suggestions you made to the 
              letter. All my settings are correct and I also created the 
              new eSignal EOD database. If anybody  doubts my findings 
              then just run the two code samples to convince yourself - 
              don't go by my word alone. I fact I challenge anybody to prove me 
              wrong using the code shown previously. 
               
              Anyway you will never be able to reach 100% 
              match because
              intraday data contain all trading (including 
              Form-Ts). My observation is that Form-Ts start flowing even before 
              16:00
              hence streaming intraday data will contain them 
              while EOD data not as per nasdaq regulations.<SPAN 
              class=796213912-16032004><FONT face=Arial 
              color=#0000ff> 
              <SPAN 
              class=796213912-16032004> 
              <FONT face=Arial 
              color=#0000ff>I do not expect a 100% match however I do not 
              expect a 38% error rate accross all price fields (OHLC) 
              either this is too high to successfully translate any EOD short 
              term trading system to RT. 
              <FONT face=Arial 
              color=#0000ff> 
              <FONT face=Arial 
              color=#0000ff>The TimeFrameGetPrice() does not help here. 
              What we need is a way to 
              switch from eSignal RT or eSignal EOD on the fly. 
              The only alternative I see is to run two AB 
              instances and use custom files to share data between them. This 
              means forever synchronizing two code versions, maintain two 
              databases, and develop additional data-sharing 
              code.
              See the following excerpt from: <A 
              href="">http://www.csidata.com/techjournal/csinews/200010/page01.htm
               
              "A complicating feature of this 
              arrangement was the inconsistent way trades were reported for the 
              various exchanges. All trades for Nasdaq-listed issues that 
              occurred in the late trading session (after 4:00 p.m.) were sent 
              from Nasdaq as Form-T trades. By Nasdaq rule, these trades were 
              not (and still are not) allowed to change the official daily 
              high-low-last price data, but they do increment the volume. 
              Ostensibly, this is because Nasdaq uses 4:00 p.m. prices to 
              calculate indices. They (apparently) have no way to preserve the 
              4:00 p.m. price quote for each index component. In contrast, 
              trades on Nasdaq of NYSE-listed issues were sent as regular 
              trades, which altered the official composite high-low-last 
              quote.<FONT 
              color=#000000>  "
              Best 
              regards,Tomasz Janeczkoamibroker.com
              <BLOCKQUOTE 
              >
                ----- Original Message ----- 

                <DIV 
                >From: 
                Herman 
                van den Bergen 
                To: <A 
                title=amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                href="">amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                
                Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 
                2004 1:09 AM
                Subject: RE: [amibroker] 
                Does your eSignal data match your QP2 data???
                
                <FONT face=Arial 
                color=#0000ff size=2>Yes Tomasz I did created a new EOD eSignal 
                data base and i found that (over the same 20-day random sample) 
                QP2 and eSignal data were exactly the same using EOD, the 
                problem i have is with the RT data conversion to EOD prices 
                using only the eSignal RT database. 
                <FONT face=Arial 
                color=#0000ff size=2> 
                <FONT face=Arial 
                color=#0000ff size=2>Also, as you suggested, setting 
                AA Settings to the Daily mode <SPAN 
                class=765523122-15032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
                size=2>gave EOD prices that matched the OHLC extracted from RT 
                data, but they do not match either QP2 or eSignal EOD data - 
                this suggests that either my code is wrong or RT data 
                is different. When setting the AA to Minutes and using 
                TimeFrameGetPrice<FONT 
                size=2>("O"<FONT 
                size=2>, inDaily, expandFirst ); to extract 
                EOD prices from eSignal RT data this gives 
                me different prices from both QP2 and eSignal EOD 
                data. 
                <FONT face=Arial 
                color=#0000ff size=2> <SPAN 
                class=765523122-15032004>
                Any suggestions on 
                how I 
                can extract EOD data from eSignal RT will be 
                appreciated. 
                <SPAN 
                class=765523122-15032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
                size=2> 
                <FONT face=Arial 
                color=#0000ff size=2>best regards,
                <FONT face=Arial 
                color=#0000ff size=2>Herman.
                <FONT 
                color=#008000>// Real time Exploration Run on eSignal<SPAN 
                class=765523122-15032004>, use 1 Minute 
                settingsOt= <FONT 
                color=#0000ff>TimeFrameGetPrice(<FONT 
                color=#ff00ff>"O", inDaily,expandLast 
                );Ht = TimeFrameGetPrice(<FONT 
                color=#ff00ff>"H", inDaily,expandLast 
                );Lt = TimeFrameGetPrice(<FONT 
                color=#ff00ff>"L", inDaily,expandLast 
                );Ct = TimeFrameGetPrice(<FONT 
                color=#ff00ff>"C", inDaily,expandLast 
                );Vt = TimeFrameGetPrice(<FONT 
                color=#ff00ff>"V", inDaily,expandLast 
                );Buy=Sell=Short=Cover=<FONT 
                color=#ff00ff>0;Filter = <FONT 
                color=#0000ff>TimeNum() == <FONT 
                color=#ff00ff>093000;<FONT 
                color=#0000ff>AddColumn(Ot,<FONT 
                color=#ff00ff>"O",<FONT 
                color=#ff00ff>1.2);<FONT 
                color=#0000ff>AddColumn(Ht,<FONT 
                color=#ff00ff>"H",<FONT 
                color=#ff00ff>1.2);<FONT 
                color=#0000ff>AddColumn(Lt,<FONT 
                color=#ff00ff>"L",<FONT 
                color=#ff00ff>1.2);<FONT 
                color=#0000ff>AddColumn(Ct,<FONT 
                color=#ff00ff>"C",<FONT 
                color=#ff00ff>1.2);<SPAN 
                class=765523122-15032004> <FONT 
                size=2>// Exploration Run on QP2<SPAN 
                class=765523122-15032004>, use Daily 
                settingsBuy=Sell=Short=Cover=<FONT 
                color=#ff00ff>0;Filter = <FONT 
                color=#ff00ff>1;<FONT 
                color=#0000ff>AddColumn(O,<FONT 
                color=#ff00ff>"O",<FONT 
                color=#ff00ff>1.2);<FONT 
                color=#0000ff>AddColumn(H,<FONT 
                color=#ff00ff>"H",<FONT 
                color=#ff00ff>1.2);<FONT 
                color=#0000ff>AddColumn(L,<FONT 
                color=#ff00ff>"L",<FONT 
                color=#ff00ff>1.2);<FONT 
                color=#0000ff>AddColumn(C,<FONT 
                color=#ff00ff>"C",<FONT 
                color=#ff00ff>1.2);
                
                <FONT 
                size=2> <FONT face=Tahoma 
                size=2>-----Original Message-----From: Tomasz 
                Janeczko [mailto:amibroker@xxxxxx]Sent: Monday, March 
                15, 2004 4:45 PMTo: 
                amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSubject: Re: [amibroker] 
                Does your eSignal data match your QP2 
                data???Importance: High
                
                  Herman,
                   
                  Did you do what I suggested ? I.e. creating 
                  eSignal database with base time interval set to "EOD (daily)" 
                  ?
                  Best regards,Tomasz 
                  Janeczkoamibroker.com
                  <BLOCKQUOTE 
                  >
                    ----- Original Message ----- 
                    
                    <DIV 
                    >From: 
                    <A title=psytek@xxxxxxxx 
                    href="">Herman van den Bergen 
                    
                    To: <A 
                    title=amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                    href="">AmiBroker 
                    Sent: Monday, March 15, 
                    2004 6:09 PM
                    Subject: [amibroker] 
                    Does your eSignal data match your QP2 data???
                    
                    <SPAN 
                    class=531415316-15032004>Hello,
                    <SPAN 
                    class=531415316-15032004> 
                    <SPAN 
                    class=531415316-15032004>I run both eSignal and QP2 data and 
                    am porting some mature QP2 EOD code to eSignal to 
                    see if it can be enhanced with RT data. Before changing any 
                    code I wanted to confirm identical EOD performance 
                    in both data environments, I found huge discrepancies. 
                    Comparing daily OHLC prices derived from eSignal RT data 
                    with OHLC data from QuotePlus I found that taking a Random 
                    20-day sample showed 38% disagreement between the two data 
                    sources. Now the question arises as to which is the correct 
                    one?
                    <SPAN 
                    class=531415316-15032004> 
                    <SPAN 
                    class=531415316-15032004>If you have both data sources 
                    please let me know if you have noticed this discrepancy. I 
                    used the following code snippets to illustrate this problem. 
                    I used two separate AB instances; one configured for eSignal 
                    and one for QuotePlus. Perhaps I am doing something 
                    wrong....I hope so!
                    <SPAN 
                    class=531415316-15032004> 
                    <SPAN 
                    class=531415316-15032004>Many thanks for any comments you 
                    can make,
                    <SPAN 
                    class=531415316-15032004>Herman.
                    <SPAN 
                    class=531415316-15032004> 
                    <SPAN 
                    class=531415316-15032004>// Exploration Run on 
                    QP2Buy=Sell=Short=Cover=0;Filter = 
                    1;AddColumn(O,"O",1.2);AddColumn(H,"H",1.2);AddColumn(L,"L",1.2);AddColumn(C,"C",1.2);
                    <SPAN 
                    class=531415316-15032004> 
                    <SPAN 
                    class=531415316-15032004>// Real time Exploration Run on 
                    eSignalOt= TimeFrameGetPrice("O", inDaily);Ht = 
                    TimeFrameGetPrice("H", inDaily);Lt = 
                    TimeFrameGetPrice("L", inDaily);Ct = 
                    TimeFrameGetPrice("C", inDaily);Vt = 
                    TimeFrameGetPrice("V", inDaily);
                    <SPAN 
                    class=531415316-15032004>Buy=Sell=Short=Cover=0;Filter = 
                    TimeNum() == 
                    093000;AddColumn(Ot,"O",1.2);AddColumn(Ht,"H",1.2);AddColumn(Lt,"L",1.2);AddColumn(Ct,"C",1.2);Send 
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