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RE: Stock Selection was: [amibroker] Re: NDX / QQQ - Can it be traded ?



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<SPAN 
class=073355218-06022003>Al,
I 
tried the link but it appears to be dead. A goggle search also failed. Have you 
visited this site recently?
 Jayson 
<FONT face=Tahoma 
size=2>-----Original Message-----From: Al Venosa 
[mailto:avcinci@xxxxxxxxxxx]Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 1:44 
PMTo: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSubject: Re: Stock 
Selection was: [amibroker] Re: NDX / QQQ - Can it be traded 
?


Fred,
Steve Notis sells a trading software called Powerkit (<A 
href="">www.byte-research.com). At that site, 
you can download the user manual for free. In that manual, he discusses 
optimization in great detail, so you don't need to buy the TASC article. I 
believe he may even have a discussion of this topic on his web site. 
Al Venosa



>From: "Fred " 
>Reply-To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
>To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
>Subject: Stock Selection was: [amibroker] Re: NDX / QQQ - Can it 
be traded ? 
>Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 18:35:59 -0000 
> 
>Jayson, 
> 
>Here's the article. Unfortunately TASC wants to charge for 
>everything they ever printed these days. 
> 
>http://store.traders.com/v15261aryour.html 
> 
>It begins ... 
> 
>Are Your Profits Robust? by Steve Notis 
> 
>Your trading system probably has a set of parameters you think 
are 
>the most profitable. But is it the most consistent? Here's a 
>technique to find the most robust set that will give you regular 
>profits. 
> 
>For those who use trading systems, the most important concern 
should 
>not be to find parameters that yield the greatest profit; rather, 
it 
>should be to find the most robust parameters. Anyone can tweak a 
>system until it shows startling results, but unless those 
parameters 
>are robust, they will not hold up in real-world trading. 
> 
>Several testing methods can be used to increase a system's 
>robustness. The first, and simplest, is to test over long 
periods. 
>This assures that the test includes a variety of market 
conditions. 
>The second method is the walk-forward, or blind, data test. This 
>typically consists of optimizing trading parameters over a long 
>period, but stopping short of the present. Finally, the best 
>parameters are tested over the remaining, nonoptimized, data. 
This is 
>also referred to as walk-forward, blind, virgin, out-of-sample, 
and 
>it has even been referred to as real-time testing. 
> 
>If the optimized parameters work well over the blind data, then 
it 
>can be argued that the parameters are robust and likely to 
continue 
>to work for some time into the future. Since the final test is 
run 
>without the benefit of hindsight or optimization, it's as close 
to 
>real trading as you can simulate with historical data. However, 
don't 
>assume that the most profitable parameters are the best 
parameters - 
>meaning those that will be the most profitable in the future. 
> 
>The rest costs $3.95 if you don't have old issues at home 
already. 
>It's worth a read. 
> 
>--- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Fred " 
> wrote: 
> > Jayson, 
> > 
> > That's exactly the point I was trying to make ... 
> > 
> > In the example you used and my comments of that example the 

>parameter 
> > value of 100 may be the best value using increments are 25, 
but it 
>is 
> > invisibly a much tighter fit then 91 is. The reason for 
this is 
>that 
> > next to 100 is a performance canyon at 102 where the DD's 
skyrocket 
> > but surrounding 91 are 10 points on either side i.e. 81 
through 101 
> > where similar results are achieved. 
> > 
> > This kind of situation where performance canyons occur next 
to some 
> > parameter value are common in system development and 
testing making 
> > the most robust values in the middle of the range where 
similar 
>MAR's 
> > are as opposed to maybe where the highest CAR or MAR 
occurs. The 
> > idea behind system development and optimization of course 
is to 
>give 
> > the system the highest chance of success going forward as 
opposed 
>to 
> > having bragging rights looking backward. There was a good 
article 
> > about this in TASC a few years ago which I'll try and find 
the 
> > reference for if you are interested. 
> > 
> > I think Herman did a prestation on this and included a 
usable Excel 
> > spreadsheet in the files area and although I personally 
don't think 
> > it goes far enough because it only looks at CAR, I do think 
it's in 
> > the correct direction. 
> > 
> > Fred 
> > 
> > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Jayson" 
wrote: 
> > > Again Fred, it seems to me that what you are 
accomplishing is a 
> > fit. Going 
> > > forward will this extremely fine tune hold true? As a 
strong 
> > proponent of 
> > > system trading you are probably in a better position 
to answer 
>that 
> > question 
> > > but to me robustness is a measure of how widely the 
the stock (s) 
> > may vary 
> > > from the optimized sweet spot and still remain 
consistently 
> > profitable. The 
> > > one constant in the stock market is that it is not 
constant. For 
>a 
> > system to 
> > > perform as expected going forward it seems to me that 
the system 
> > must be 
> > > flexible. Optimizing to such tight tolerances makes 
that goal 
> > challenging. 
> > > 
> > > Jayson 
> > > -----Original Message----- 
> > > From: Fred [mailto:fctonetti@xxxx] 
> > > Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 12:44 PM 
> > > To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> > > Subject: Stock Selection was: [amibroker] Re: NDX / 
QQQ - Can it 
>be 
> > traded ? 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Jayson, 
> > > 
> > > Using your example ... 
> > > 
> > > Wouldn't you consider it more appropriate to optimize 
in steps of 
> > one 
> > > and plot the results looking at the CAR & MDD's or 
some 
>combination 
> > > of those such as MAR = CAR / MDD and see where the 
most stable or 
> > > robust area of MAR is for the parameters in play. 
> > > 
> > > For example lets assume that you first optimize by 25 
and find the 
> > > best MAR is at 100. 
> > > 
> > > And lets assume that you optimize again by 1 and find 
out the 
>range 
> > > between 81 and 101 is all pretty much the same but 
that at 74 the 
> > CAR 
> > > goes way down and at 102 the DD's go way up. Are you 
really 
>going 
> > to 
> > > use 100 as the final value ? or the midpoint between 
81 and 101 
>i.e 
> > > what I would consider to be the more robust setting. 
> > > 
> > > Fred 
> > > 
> > > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Jayson" 
wrote: 
> > > > Ken, 
> > > > 
> > > > Example: lets say one of your optimizations is 
the length of a 
> > > given MA. If 
> > > > your range is set from 20-200 with steps of 1 
then the 
> > optimization 
> > > will be 
> > > > lengthy and what you will have accomplished is a 
tight curve 
>fit 
> > of 
> > > the Ma 
> > > > that historically worked on this basket over this 
time frame. 
>The 
> > > result may 
> > > > very well not work as well in RT . On the other 
hand lets say 
>you 
> > > are 
> > > > optimizing the same MA, 1-200 but instead of 
increments of 1 you 
> > > use steps 
> > > > of 25. This may offer a better representation 
since it does not 
> > > necessarily 
> > > > curve to fit 1 or a few very good trades but 
instead may 
>capture a 
> > > greater 
> > > > percentage of good or bad trades..... 
> > > > 
> > > > Jayson 
> > > > -----Original Message----- 
> > > > From: Ken Close [mailto:closeks@xxxx] 
> > > > Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 11:55 AM 
> > > > To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> > > > Subject: RE: Stock Selection was: [amibroker] Re: 
NDX / QQQ - 
>Can 
> > > it be 
> > > > traded ? 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Well, I almost did not respond (although thanks 
for writing). 
>I 
> > am 
> > > not 
> > > > concerned with the price factors etc. 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > This is the thing I am concerned with. I hear 
your other 
>emphasis 
> > > and am 
> > > > taking care of that. The following is the area my 
previous post 
> > > referred 
> > > > to. 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > "The challenge is to find a good range of 
settings with out 
> > risking 
> > > a curve 
> > > > fit, other wise the system will not likely trade 
in the same 
> > manner 
> > > as it 
> > > > tests." 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Any further comments on this one aspect of your 
reply??? 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Anyone else??? 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Ken 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > -----Original Message----- 
> > > > From: Jayson [mailto:jcasavant@xxxx] 
> > > > Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 11:41 AM 
> > > > To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> > > > Subject: RE: Stock Selection was: [amibroker] Re: 
NDX / QQQ - 
>Can 
> > > it be 
> > > > traded ? 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Apples and Oranges Ken. Perhaps we can make a 
Nectarine! If you 
> > > choose a 
> > > > basket of stocks based on a given criteria then 
testing that 
> > basket 
> > > over 10 
> > > > years may well hold no significance. Lets use a 
simple filter. 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > C>10; 
> > > > 
> > > > ma(v,50)>100000; 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Lets consider that this is the criteria for our 
initial 
> > > scan/selection. 
> > > > Where were the conditions 1-2-5-10 years ago? If 
the conditions 
> > > were not met 
> > > > just 1 year ago would we have selected the stock 
for use in our 
> > > system? If 
> > > > not then what is the value of testing its results 
2-5-10 years 
> > ago? 
> > > With 
> > > > this approach you would need to test that the 
conditions were in 
> > > fact met X 
> > > > years ago then test forward using your selection 
criteria to 
>exit 
> > > when 
> > > > necessary. This insures that you would not be 
testing stocks 
>that 
> > > in RT you 
> > > > would have no intention of trading. 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > You may wish to be careful with your 
Optimization. The 
>challenge 
> > is 
> > > to find 
> > > > a good range of settings with out risking a curve 
fit, other 
>wise 
> > > the system 
> > > > will not likely trade in the same manner as it 
tests. 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Jayson 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > -----Original Message----- 
> > > > From: Ken Close [mailto:closeks@xxxx] 
> > > > Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 11:10 AM 
> > > > To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> > > > Subject: RE: Stock Selection was: [amibroker] Re: 
NDX / QQQ - 
>Can 
> > > it be 
> > > > traded ? 
> > > > 
> > > > Jayson: your advice is very good as well as 
comprehensive..I am 
> > > still left 
> > > > unsettled as to my approach. 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Lets say my indicator/system is relatively short 
term in nature 
> > > (lookbacks 
> > > > are somewhat short). But, I want to employ some 
of the 
>principles 
> > > that Fred 
> > > > talked about namely to be sure I optimize over a 
long period so 
> > > various 
> > > > market conditions are captured). [I know the 
argument that the 
> > > nature of 
> > > > the market changed on 3/1/2000 and therefore 
optimizations 
>should 
> > > be done 
> > > > after that point---I tend to want to be more 
conservative and 
> > > capture 
> > > > conditions on both sides of the peak]. Also, a 
system that 
> > > optimizes to 
> > > > good performance across that period seems a more 
conservative 
> > > and "robust" 
> > > > system. Witness Freds model of results in his 
"spectacular" 
> > system- 
> > > the 
> > > > equity curve kept going up and was smooth as the 
system passed 
> > over 
> > > > 3/1/2000, 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > As I said previously, the optimization process is 
a lengthy 
>one, 
> > so 
> > > my 
> > > > approach is to do all of what you said below in 
other scans (I 
> > pull 
> > > out of 
> > > > TC2000 many of the conditions you talk about 
below). This is my 
> > > selection 
> > > > watchlist. Then, I do not want to / can not take 
the time to 
>run 
> > > > optimizations on 300 or 800 stocks so I want a 
screening 
>approach 
> > > that has a 
> > > > good probability of finding stocks that 
"resonate" with my 
>system. 
> > > Then, I 
> > > > will optimize these stocks. 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > I still have to try DTs approach and probably 
alter it to 
>conform 
> > a 
> > > little 
> > > > more closely with my system. Another approach is 
that if I have 
> > > for example 
> > > > some trigger levels in my model...while these 
might optimize 
>out 
> > to 
> > > extremes 
> > > > for individual members (think about RSI crossing 
30 and 70), 
>then 
> > my 
> > > > screening formula might set a standard trigger of 
crossing 50 
> > > either way. 
> > > > Stocks that do "well" against the 50/50 cross 
should do better 
> > when 
> > > > optimized to exact levels. Stocks that do poorly 
against the 
> > 50/50 
> > > cross 
> > > > will still do poorly when optimized. Don't you 
think this is a 
> > > correct way 
> > > > of looking at it? 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks for the help. Any further comments on the 
above point? 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Ken 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > -----Original Message----- 
> > > > From: Jayson [mailto:jcasavant@xxxx] 
> > > > Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 10:24 AM 
> > > > To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> > > > Subject: Stock Selection was: [amibroker] Re: NDX 
/ QQQ - Can 
>it 
> > be 
> > > traded ? 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Ken, 
> > > > 
> > > > I agree with Dimitris. To select a basket of 
stocks you must 
>first 
> > > select an 
> > > > indicator or method/style to trade them with. If 
your 
>System/style 
> > > is trend 
> > > > following then selecting a basket that trends 
strongly (up or 
> > > down) is 
> > > > critical. The indicators that you read that tend 
to behave for 
> > > trending 
> > > > conditions tend to fail miserably in 
consolidations. The 
>reverse 
> > is 
> > > true for 
> > > > Rolling stocks. You can use simple methods to 
begin the process 
> > > such as 20 
> > > > and 50 ma or slope of either. Many use a floor of 
price such as 
> > > c>10 or 15 
> > > > or whatever. Volume is certainly a major 
consideration since 
> > without 
> > > > liquidity the trade may be too challenging. 
Volatility is also 
> > > something to 
> > > > consider and to compare to your trading style. Do 
you (can you) 
> > > stomach the 
> > > > wild rides of stock like BEAS whose current ATR 
is >7% of the 
> > > current price 
> > > > (today moved nearly 8% on the open!!) or are you 
more 
>comfortable 
> > > trading in 
> > > > the 3-5% range? Some like to add fundamental 
criteria. Though 
>not 
> > > easily 
> > > > accomplished within AB there are data suppliers 
(QP and TC2000 
>to 
> > > name a 
> > > > few) that make such an initial screen very easy. 
Add your own 
> > > criteria to 
> > > > pare down your initial universe to a more 
workable number. A 
>lot 
> > of 
> > > my work 
> > > > revolves around Sector Rotation. Determining 
where the money is 
> > > flowing in 
> > > > or out can help you to further refine your list. 
I think Ara is 
> > > also working 
> > > > in this area and may wish to add some of his 
thoughts. 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > IMO this type of selection process offers insight 
into what is 
> > most 
> > > likely 
> > > > to work in the short term. Testing a basket 
selection using this 
> > > type of 
> > > > approach over a long period (years) may not yield 
the desired 
> > > results 
> > > > because the above criteria is constantly in 
motion. However if 
>you 
> > > find that 
> > > > your system or approach tends to work well under 
those 
>conditions 
> > > then 
> > > > choosing stocks that meet a given criteria can 
yield impressive 
> > > results. 
> > > > Consider this a method of optimizing. Instead of 
optimizing the 
> > > settings in 
> > > > a group of indicators so that the results test 
well on a given 
>set 
> > > of 
> > > > stocks, over a given time frame you are instead 
selecting a 
>given 
> > > universe 
> > > > that tends to do well with a given set if 
indicators. 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Regards, 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Jayson 
> > > > 
> > > > -----Original Message----- 
> > > > From: DIMITRIS TSOKAKIS 
[mailto:TSOKAKIS@xxxx] 
> > > > Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 5:50 AM 
> > > > To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> > > > Subject: [amibroker] Re: NDX / QQQ - Can it be 
traded ? 
> > > > 
> > > > Ken, 
> > > > I will try to describe an objective method I 
often use to select 
> > > > stocks. 
> > > > First of all it depends on the indicator/system 
you use [since I 
> > > have 
> > > > not yet any ...holy grail available] 
> > > > Let us suppose you want to use the smoothed 
MeanRSI as a general 
> > > > indicator and you want to find "good" 
applications. 
> > > > The DEMA(MeanRSI,45) is a quite smooth and 
descriptive 
>oscillator 
> > > for 
> > > > ^NDX market. 
> > > > If you could buy at troughs and sell at peaks 
[with some zig 
> > period 
> > > > around 20] you would have one of the best 
> > > > performances for this Market indicator. Does it 
suites to ANY 
> > stock? 
> > > > Certainly not. 
> > > > Run the 
> > > > 
> > > > 
f=Foreign("~SUMRSI","C")/Foreign("~COUNT","V");F=DEMA 
>(F,45);z=20; 
> > > > Buy=TroughBars(f,z)==0;Sell=PeakBars(f,z) 
>==0;Short=Sell;Cover=Buy; 
> > > > 
> > > > from, say, May1, 2000 till now and see the top 
gainers [NTAP, 
> > JNPR, 
> > > > CIEN etc] and the top loosers [FHCC, PDCO, ESRX 
etc] 
> > > > Since Peak/Trough system is, as you know, 
unrealistic, try to 
> > > replace 
> > > > it with a closest approximation. 
> > > > For smoothed oscillators a 2-level system is 
really interesting. 
> > > > Try something like 
> > > > 
> > > > f=Foreign("~SUMRSI","C")/Foreign("~COUNT","V"); 
> > > > X=45;//Optimize("X",45,35,50,5); 
> > > > F=DEMA(F,X); 
> > > > x1=Optimize("X1",42,38,44,1);//buy level 
> > > > x2=Optimize("X2",56,55,60,1);//sell level 
> > > > b1=Cross(f,x1);b2=Cross(x1,f);//no need to be 
fanatic with the 
> > type 
> > > > of cross, the system knows better 
> > > > s1=Cross(f,x2);s2=Cross(x2,f); 
> > > > nb=Optimize("nb",1,1,2,1); 
> > > > ns=Optimize("ns",1,1,2,1); 
> > > > nSH=Optimize("nSH",1,1,2,1); 
> > > > nCO=Optimize("nCO",2,1,2,1); 
> > > > Buy=IIf(nb==1,b1,b2);Sell=IIf(ns==1,s1,s2); 
> > > > Buy=ExRem(Buy,Sell);Sell=ExRem(Sell,Buy); 
> > > > Short=IIf(nSH==1,s1,s2);Cover=IIf(nCO==1,b1,b2); 
> > > > Short=ExRem(Short,Cover);Cover=ExRem(Cover,Short 
> > > > 
> > > > The good performance of JNPR in the theoretical 
Peak/Trough 
> > project 
> > > > [around +1000% with 4/4/0 success] 
> > > > leaves room for good optimization results 
> > > > [sometimes better than the "ideal" model: there 
are MANY 
> > > combinations 
> > > > better than +1000% for JNPR] 
> > > > The bad performance of ESRX means that this stock 
need some 
>other 
> > > > treatment. 
> > > > The same optimization confirms the ESRX 
conclusion : It is 
>better 
> > > not 
> > > > to trade this stock, since the most profitable 
combination 
> > > > is the 0 trades ! 
> > > > Of course, this method is not always accurate, 
but it gives good 
> > > > advices for the first selection. 
> > > > Besides that, I have met many times JNPR and RFMD 
in the 4-digit 
> > > > profitable stocks, my experience is not great, I 
come back to 
> > basics 
> > > > [CSCO 70% and BEAS 30%] quickly, I feel more safe 
there, but, 
>it 
> > is 
> > > a 
> > > > matter of taste [crude oil and copper futures are 
also 
> > interesting, 
> > > > but let us talk for stocks in this group] 
> > > > Does it help ? 
> > > > Dimitris 
> > > > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Ken Close" 

> > wrote: 
> > > > > DT: can you name some additional symbols, 
besides CSCO and 
>BEAS, 
> > > > with 
> > > > > which you have seen similar success. Thanks 
for sharing your 
> > > > > experience. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Ken 
> > > > > 
> > > > > -----Original Message----- 
> > > > > From: DIMITRIS TSOKAKIS 
[mailto:TSOKAKIS@xxxx] 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 3:38 AM 
> > > > > To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> > > > > Subject: [amibroker] Re: NDX / QQQ - Can it 
be traded ? 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Herman, 
> > > > > An annual system % return 100%-120% is 
reasonable for many QQQ 
> > > > > systems from Jan2000 till now. 
> > > > > [Suppose always buy, sell, short, cover at 
+1Open, 0.5% 
> > commission 
> > > > > and disabled stops] 
> > > > > I would be surprised indeed to see a double 
return. 
> > > > > Above 200%-250% we may find some other 
popular stocks, but 
>not 
> > > > QQQ, 
> > > > > AFAIK. 
> > > > > I come to believe there are some 
"functional" limitations for 
> > QQQ 
> > > > > curve to exceed the annual 150%. 
> > > > > This conclusion is after MANY tests for 
various trading 
>systems, 
> > > > > optimised or not. 
> > > > > This is a reason I prefer CSCO or BEAS for 
example, their 
>curves 
> > > > are 
> > > > > more "profitable" and more flexible. 
> > > > > Of course I [almost] always speak for medium 
speed systems 
>[not 
> > > > more 
> > > > > than 6 trades per year] 
> > > > > It is more than 8 months I did not trade a 
single QQQ share, I 
> > > > would 
> > > > > be glad to come back to my old favorite, but 
for a better than 
> > > 180% 
> > > > > annual return. 
> > > > > This is my experience, I hope it hepls 
somehow... 
> > > > > Dimitris 
> > > > > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Herman 
van den Bergen" 
> > > > > wrote: 
> > > > > > Well Fred, the real values to use when 
estimating whether a 
> > > > trading 
> > > > > system 
> > > > > > is practical have never been answered 
on this list. You are 
>a 
> > > > > trader, I am 
> > > > > > still mostly a tinkerer, so I respect 
your opinion. As a 
>rule 
> > I 
> > > > > discard 
> > > > > > systems that do not survive my "acid 
test" of 0.5%. This 
> > allows 
> > > > my 
> > > > > to fumble 
> > > > > > placing the trade, allows for some 
over-optimization, 
> > slippage, 
> > > > > slow data, 
> > > > > > and even for some commission. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > There ought to be a formula based on 
parameters like volume, 
> > > > > volatility and 
> > > > > > price, to gives us a working estimate. 
Places that have 
>lots 
> > of 
> > > > > trading 
> > > > > > histories could crunch that out in 
seconds. Would be 
> > interesting 
> > > > to 
> > > > > have a 
> > > > > > poll on this. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Herman. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > -----Original Message----- 
> > > > > > From: Fred 
[mailto:fctonetti@xxxx] 
> > > > > > Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 4:03 PM 

> > > > > > To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> > > > > > Subject: [amibroker] Re: NDX / QQQ - 
Can it be traded ? 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Herman, 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Let's use today as an example and 
assume you are going to 
> > > trade 
> > > > > QQQ 
> > > > > > after you make a decision on where NDX 
closes ... 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > At 4:00 PM QQQ was as at 24.50 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Between there and 4:15 QQQ got as high 
as 24.54 and as 
>low 
> > as 
> > > > > 24.48 
> > > > > > or 0.16% over and 0.08% under as 
EXTREMES. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Thomas, 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I'm not quite ready to toss it on the 
scrap heap yet. I 
> > just 
> > > > > started 
> > > > > > playing with it. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
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