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I concur. I remember the halycon days when 50-150 e-mails a day was not unusual.
I personally believe the bashers were the most destructive aspect of the
group. I know of several people, we all joined together long ago and they
all left because they posted what they saw in the markets and why only to be
bashed to the point they left the group, never unsubscribed merely moved to
a different e-mail acct or isp and never looked back.
Also at that time were the phishing individuals who spammed your e-mail with
programs and services for sale.
As far as advertising goes I see nothing wrong with Clyde Lee's signature. I
have visited his url. His signature informs me I may contact him, even visit
his url. I believe that signature advertising should be allowed to everyone,
it is unimposing and passive.
I also believe that merely saying one should short at onramp 135 of the
Garden State Parkway and cover at exit 98 on the Garden state parkway
without any explanation is a cryptic advertisement inviting inquiries as to
why. There are neophytes who will blindly follow and not know what they are
doing.
One must be responsible both as a poster and a reader. The poster to know
they may be posting to a neophyte and participating in their demise, the
reader in knowing that they might not understand and not to take that trade....
Lastly thank heavens the days of someone yelling virus and 150 e-mails show
up regarding the shout and then another 150 saying it was a hoax are over....
Sincerely,
Jeff Fredrick
>
>There is more wisdom in Ira's statement then almost anything else I have
seen on this list for years. I made almost all these points with a
perspective student just yesterday. Most people on these list do not want to
think and analyze, they want a simple indicator to tell them what to do.
> I believe the most important thing this list can contribute is education
yet I have little confidence that an organization around education would
succeed. I remember years ago Eddie Kwong tried to segment the group into
interest areas with a leader for each segment. The experiment failed miserably.
>Regarding the advertisement issue, I would recommend that identification of
educational services be allowed on the list but that vendors selling
systems and indicators WITHOUT educational material be filtered out. One way
that the list could move to a more educational approach is to require that
anyone offering a forecast, or opinion of the market include a short
description of the theory behind the opinion AND a follow-up discussion of
how it turned out. This may be difficult to enforce but the list members
could demand it.
>
>Regards,
>Jim White
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: mr.ira
> To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 11:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [RT] Re: Advertising
>
>
> At one time this list had a couple of people who were into ridicule of
almost everyone that had something to say or contribute. That turned me off
for quite a while and at times I am still hesitant to post. I don't need it
and some others who have knowledge to pass on were turned off also. Like
most groups on the net there are a very few members that contribute and the
rest just lurk.
>
> There are those that troll for names to solicit and there are others that
seek nothing but to take and not contribute. There are certain posts that I
will respond to if I see something different and feel that it might help.
Most posts I just ignore.
>
> I have posted several projections on this list that have come to pass. I
have seen Ben stick his neck out on numerous occasions as well as Clyde and
some others. I don't trade very often any more. I have been retired for
over 20 years. But the markets are worse then a drug and the fascination
with the markets still holds my curiosity and attention. I have used the
same system for over 30 years and never had to change or adjust it. I
didn't re-invent the wheel or unearth the Holy Grail. Everything that you
need to win in the markets is out there and has been there for 30 years or
more.
>
> Most people on these lists are seeking a free lunch. I don't blame
them, I feel sorry for them as most of them will go through their money and
be no better off then when they started. How many of you have blown your
capitol, saved up and tried again and failed, and so on. This is a business
like any other. 95% of all start-up businesses fail. The reason. The
people that start them don't know how to run a business. Is trading any
different? You can blame everyone for your failure, but it is no ones fault
but yours. You go to years of school to learn a profession and then you
intern in order to become proficient at, it rather then just school smart.
Yet you expect to become a good trader and make a living just because you
have several thousand dollars to put into an account or because you were
successful in your present business or profession. If you were a successful
lawyer and made tons of money would you expect to be able to walk into an
operating room and do brain surgery because you read a book and got some
information on a medical web site. I don't think so, yet you feel that you
can become a successful trader by doing exactly that.
>
> Have any of you set down what you want a system to provide you? Profit
isn't the answer to the question. Have any of you laid out a business plan
or risk analysis for a money management system? Have any of you bothered to
find out what an indicator is supposed to do and why the numbers used are
important? Have any of you done anything other then grab a gem here and
there and figure that over time you will figure it all out because are smart
and successful in your current position? This is a business like any other.
You buy inventory and then you try to sell it at a higher price or you sell
it first and try to buy it back later at a cheaper price. Like any other
business if you buy wrong you lose. To buy right you have to understand
what you are buying and whether the system that you are using says you will
be able to do so. If you were running a regular business you would look
cost of inventory, a rate of return and cash flow to mention just a couple
of things. Instead most are looking to ride one big winner into the sunset.
>
> I am sorry about getting carried away, but every now and then I guess one
just has to speak out. Have a good week all. Ira.
>
>
>
>
> From: Dan C
> To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 8:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [RT] Re: Advertising
>
>
> I have never belonged to this group when it was active, and frankly
think I missed out. While other lists that I have been associated with seem
to grow and flourish, this one seems to be stuck. Really unfortunate for
those like me who are still the neophytes, the unwashed beginners (and some
of us take a very long time to become relatively proficient). And I value
the input to this list when it does arrive; for me I try to glean what
nuggets appear. So I thank those who do take the time to do so like Ben,
Earl, you Bob, Clyde, Ira, when he does. Those whom come to mind at the
moment. And I know there is a lot of wisdom, knowledge, and talent
represented in this membership.
>
> So what has caused the die off? I have never felt that has been
flaming or trashing anyone's posting.
>
> What would cause anyone to become more active?
>
> As of this moment there are 942 members. Why are we all hanging
around? Why the large membership that does not post? What does the
membership want to see here?
>
> As far as advertising is concerned: I really get annoyed by overt,
blatant postings. I don't care much if what is posted is related to a
discussion or in response to query.
>
> Bob, when it does surface, there is generally enough bitching at the
poster to at least bring it to your attention and you can act on it however
you are inclined. I am with what John seems to be stating that a relative
standard could be applied rather than an absolute one.
>
> Some thoughts,
>
> Dan
>
>
>
> BobsKC wrote:
> I am in favor of invigorating the list as much as you are John. I
will do anything the membership wants to do but it will take some
convincing to cause me to believe that a majority of our members want to see
any type of advertising on this list or that the list would be somehow
better with such content. I do waive this rule at the end of each year for
the week between Christmas and New Years so our members who wish to, can
state what they offer and how to access those services or products but how a
steady flow of such information would improve the quality or animation of
the list escapes me.
>
> This list doesn't belong to me or anyone. It belongs to all of you
and if you want unrestricted advertising on our list, let me know and if I
hear from 50.1% of you that this is what you want, I'll drop that restriction.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> At 06:08 PM 9/26/2005, you wrote:
>
>
> Bob:
>
>
>
> While I in general support the prohibition on advertising, I
thought Tim's post was made within the proper context for usefulness.
Perhaps zero tolerance is just a little too oppressive. It is my opinion,
and my opinion only, that the quality of the discussion has evaporated over
the last several years. Perhaps a little leeway on this issue, in a
contextual basis, would help invigorate the group and discussion a little.
It is just a suggestion in the spirit of Real Traders sharing their experiences.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> John J. Lothian
>
>
>
>
>
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