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<FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>markets.
free
markets.
open and free
markets.
<FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>
Unlike the
government which is NOT open and NOT free.
<BLOCKQUOTE
>
<FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----From: Dave Johnson
[mailto:dsj000@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 1:56
PMTo: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSubject: Re: [RT] Tax
Cuts
This is a new twist to me. I have never
heard anyone suggest that H1 and L1 visas are being pushed by liberal
senators! Quite the contrary, in general. The business community
is usually attacked for this practice from the liberal side.
I have personally brought 50-60 engineers into
the USA from Europe, and it was not because of a liberal agenda. It was
to do work here that otherwise would have been done somewhere else, though the
tactical basis has always been related to the job at hand (developing new
electrical machines for manufacturing HERE).
By the way...what do traders
produce?
----- Original Message -----
<BLOCKQUOTE
>
<DIV
>From:
Mark Simms
To: <A
title=realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
href="">realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 12:33
AM
Subject: RE: [RT] Tax Cuts
<FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>Exactly....AMERICA - Land of the consumers; INDIA/CHINA - Land of the
producers.
We can't
produce anything except <bullshit> from lawyers and insurance
companies in this country anymore....that's our biggest product
now.
Wait, I
forgot our beloved government...add them to the bullshit list with all of
those security consultants and analysts who so incompetently allowed 9-11 to
happen. Great job, guys..How much do you get paid again
?
<FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>
With H1-B and
L1 visa programs promulgated by some liberal "I hate those overpaid techies"
senators,
the WHOOSH of
technology to overseas firms has been INCREDIBLE and without
PRECEDENT.
As a result,
America is losing technology dominance....a terrible,
long-term trend.
<FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>
What is your
government doing for YOU today ?
Bullshit is
the answer.
<FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>
<BLOCKQUOTE
>
<FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----From: Navtej S. Nandra (RR)
[mailto:nnandra@xxxxxxxxxx]Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 10:08
PMTo: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSubject: Re: [RT]
Tax Cuts
Can't speak to the current tax proposal and
its trade-offs, but here are some simplistic thoughts:
1) Investments create businesses create
jobs
2) Business and jobs create money
velocity and more investments
3) See 1) above
Any stimulus that helps investments in
businesses is good, because it creates income producing long term
assets.
But right now, we are doing two things that
do not address the above. For one thing, we (as in the captains of
industry) are outsourcing our businesses overseas (manufacturing,
commodities, services) and for another, our (as in elected
representatives) policies support consumer income over business
investments.
So we are not doing much to create US based
businesses and are using a subsidy from lower interest rates (via HELOCs,
mortgages) as well as tax give backs to create a consumer spending
lift. Much of which is paying for oil and goods that we import
from others.
Not suggesting we change interest rates or
tax policy or free trade ... but definitely suggesting that we should do
something meaningful that makes investment in US industry a better
opportunity than outsourcing.
I think a 3 year horizon will probably see
significant global money flow into countries like India, China, Vietnam,
Thailand, etc.
The good news? We continue to be the
world's largest consumers of stuff. So trade flows have to rely on
us and our (gasp) foreign policy.
----- Original Message -----
<BLOCKQUOTE
>
<DIV
>From:
Charles Marchand
To: <A
title=realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
href="">realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 10:08
PM
Subject: Re: [RT] Tax Cuts
Kent,
Good points -- tax breaks for R&D, capital spending, etc. are
effectively tax cuts designed to stimulate some part of the
economy. Whether they work or not seems to depend on who you
talk to. Personal tax rates today are lower than the marginal
rates of up to 70% that prevailed for most of the post WWII
period (90% briefly during the Korean War), but we have the
Alternative Minimum Tax hitting a larger number of high income
families every
year. The
elimination of taxes on dividends had an immediate impact on the
Utilities. Since money flees taxation, the dividend tax
elimination will probably continue to favorably impact dividend
yielding Dow 30 / SnP 500 stocks while drawing money from the Hope
& Glory NAZ. Will this weaken investment in new US
technology? REITS don't participate in the dividend tax
relief. Will this take some air out of real estate?
Will this tax policy draw some widow and orphans' money from CD's,
bonds or T-Bills? What will be the effect on foreign
investment in the U. S. market? Will it be extended beyond the
three year period? I don't have a clue. Ideas
welcomed! BTW --
Ref the suggestion that if you don't pay taxes, you don't vote --
30-odd years ago oilman HL Hunt floated a tongue-in-cheek
proposition that the more taxes you pay, the more votes you should
have. He suggested that people would be falling all over
themselves to pay more in taxes.Charles
MarchandAt 01:21 PM 5/27/2003 -0400, you wrote:>Also,
it depends on which taxes are being cut and what their relative
level>is. If taxes are very low (which they are not today),
then tax cuts would>probably result in lower
revenue.>>Kent Rollins>>>-----
Original Message ----->From: "Charles Marchand"
<c_r@xxxxxxxxx>>To:
<realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003
11:29 PM>Subject: Re: [RT] Tax
Cuts>>>Lenny,>>
None of the
above.>>
Tax cuts and resulting governmental income do not happen in
a>vacuum. A, B, C might apply if there were no other
macro-economic factors>at work in the global or national
economy.>>
BTW -- Not interested in spin either.>>Charles
Marchand>>>At 09:43 PM 5/26/2003 -0400, you
wrote:> >Charles,> > Just so
I'm clear on your point of view and for the eyeballing public>
> record. Please respond to the following:> >>
>Tax cuts generate:> >> >A) More revenue to the
US Government.> >B) The same revenue as if there were no
cuts.> >C) Less revenue to the US Government.>
>> >Oh, just in case, please just answer the above question
A, B or C. I'm not> >interested in spin!!> >>
>Thanks in advance!> >Lenny> >> >In a
message dated 5/26/2003 9:27:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,>
>c_r@xxxxxxxxx writes:> >> >>Can't let this
pass -- the Reagan tax cuts have become a mantra of>
>>Republican policy. Fact is the tax cut of 1986 was
accompanied by the> >>collapse of oil prices. In
January '86 prices went from over $25/BO to>$10>
>>or so. The US was using around 16,000,000 BO PER
DAY. Do the math.> >>> >>Charles
Marchand> >> >> >> >Yahoo!
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