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the economy was on "auto pilot" during the 1990s......
gorillas could have run the company.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BobsKC [mailto:bobskc@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 12:19 PM
> To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [RT] GE and Welch
>
>
> At 09:32 AM 9/23/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >Frankly, with a 2800% increase in share value it would
> >seem to me he earned a very "perky" retirement.
> >
> >Clyde
>
> I agree completely. Whatever that package was costing GE, it was the
> tiniest token of what he did for the company. Getting shareholder
> approval for a perk package isn't a reasonable solution either
> ... no more
> so that expecting government to come to the voters to decide
> where to place
> a stop sign.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
> >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> >Clyde Lee Chairman/CEO (Home of SwingMachine)
> >SYTECH Corporation email:clydelee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >7910 Westglen, Suite 105 Office: (713) 783-9540
> >Houston, TX 77063 Fax: (713) 783-1092
> >Details at: www.theswingmachine.com
> >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Daniel Goncharoff" <thegonch@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 9:26 AM
> >Subject: Re: [RT] GE and Welch
> >
> >
> > > I call a contract that means my assets are used to pay someone
> > > indefinitely for not providing any work on my behalf abridging my
> > > property rights.
> > >
> > > You may also want to consider that just because there is a signed
> > > contract, it doesn't make a transaction legal.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > DanG
> > >
> > > Jim Johnson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello Daniel,
> > > >
> > > > Then you shouldn't own shares in a company whose
> bylaws/policies don't
> > > > stipulate that all executive comp plans be put to a
> shareholder vote.
> > > > That is rare to nonexistent. You need to understand how the process
> > > > works. You elected the board and gave them the latitude to
> make these
> > > > decisions for you. If you don't like that arrangement you can: sell
> > > > your shares, use options, start your own conglomerate, agitate for
> > > > board/comp policy reform etc. But the inference I make is that you
> > > > would prefer to abridge rights of property ownership.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Jim Johnson mailto:jejohn@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Sunday, September 22, 2002, 7:21:37 AM, you wrote:
> > > >
> > > > DG> As a shareholder of GE, I don't remember agreeing to
> this package of
> > > > DG> retirement perks. In fact, I only found out about it
> because of his
> > > > DG> divorce case. I certainly would have voted against it,
> as I don't
> > > > DG> believe in post-retirement benefits of this kind
> (apartments, jets,
> > > > DG> etc.) There should be a bonus at departure, partly cash, partly
> >stock
> > > > DG> with a long-term vesting period, fully disclosed to the
> >shareholders.
> > > > DG> Then we would have the ability to make a free choice.
> > > >
> > > > DG> Regards
> > > > DG> DanG
> > > >
> > > > DG> Jim Johnson wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Hello BobsKC,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> you can't hold teachers accountable--they're unionized
> AND they have
> > > > >> tenure. what's that all about?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> about money--PAC money mainly. the largest contributors
> to Democrats
> > > > >> are unions, teachers associations and trial lawyers.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> the liberal philosophy continues to eat away at our way of life.
> >even
> > > > >> last night on the WSJ editorial board roundtable--when
> asked about
> > > > >> Welsh's retirements perks, not one of those presumably
> free market
> > > > >> conservative writers observed that what he got was given to him
> > > > >> freely. Even they seemed to be tacitly buying into the
> implication
> > > > >> that somebody (government I assume) should get involved
> in this. the
> > > > >> title of van Hayek's book is chilling--The Road to Serfdom.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Best regards,
> > > > >> Jim Johnson mailto:jejohn@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --
> > > > >> Saturday, September 21, 2002, 10:29:59 PM, you wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> B> Unions. I watched the UAW refuse to give back a dime
> to Cat when
> >things
> > > > >> B> got tough in the early 80's even in the face of warnings they
> >would move
> > > > >> B> their Iowa plants. Well, they moved them. To
> France! My company
> >provided
> > > > >> B> two way radio and closed circuit tv services to those
> plants and
> >it was a
> > > > >> B> tough loss for us.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> B> There was a time for labor unions. That time was 80
> years ago.
> >Most of
> > > > >> B> the money they pull in goes to organized crime and they have
> >caused
> > > > >> B> manufacturing to depart wholesale. Besides, I am
> suspicious of
> >anyone who
> > > > >> B> wants to work at a job where they tell you how much
> you can make.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> B> So, greed has driven out the manufacturing jobs. Our
> education
> >system has
> > > > >> B> lowered the bar for the few until the majority are getting a
> >second rate
> > > > >> B> education and can not compete in the world market place.
> >Education is not
> > > > >> B> the same as corporate earnings. You can't just lower the
> >estimates. I
> > > > >> B> worry a lot about our youth .. kids coming out of high school
> >today are
> > > > >> B> less informed that kids coming out of 8th grade 30 years ago.
> >The damn
> > > > >> B> bar better get put back up where it belongs and teachers held
> >accountable
> > > > >> B> and tested.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> B> Bob
> > > > >>
> > > > >> B> At 05:57 PM 9/21/2002 -0700, you wrote:
> > > > >> >>Did the US have a choice in its conversion? It was
> convert or die.
> >The
> > > > >> >>manufacturing went elsewhere because they could do it
> just as good
> >and a lot
> > > > >> >>cheaper. The only other alternative we had was to become
> >isolationists again
> > > > >> >>and ban imports. Our agriculture is going the same
> way right now.
> >Garlic
> > > > >> >>is coming in from China at 1/2 the price it can be
> produced for in
> >the US.
> > > > >> >>The same with oranges, grapefruit and other citrus
> from Australia
> >and South
> > > > >> >>America. Are the grain markets in the same shape? Brazil,
> >Australia, and
> > > > >> >>other countries are producing product for less. How long can a
> >subsidy
> > > > >> >>last? Where is our vaunted fishing fleet. Are there
> any American
> >flag
> > > > >> >>vessels left afloat, outside of the Navy and coast
> guard. Do we
> >produce
> > > > >> >>shoes or clothing any more? We still have a thriving wine
> >industry.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >>I have a question. Who does the service industry
> service? We have
> >banks
> > > > >> >>that lend money to foreign countries that don't repay
> the loans.
> >We have
> > > > >> >>computer companies that import all of the parts they
> assemble here.
> >So we
> > > > >> >>did save those high paying assembly line jobs. The fast food
> >restaurants
> > > > >> >>are expanding overseas instead of in the US so those
> high paying
> >service
> > > > >> >>jobs at Wendy's and McD aren't going to shrink the unemployment
> >rolls. The
> > > > >> >>banks can now lose money in insurance, brokerage and other non
> >banking
> > > > >> >>endeavors. Even the federal government is sending our
> armaments
> >for
> > > > >> >>production overseas.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >>Were is the talent coming from to operate the high
> tech companies?
> >That
> > > > >> >>talent is coming from oversees. We can't even produce an
> >intelligent work
> > > > >> >>force. There is one ever expanding area of the
> economy. Tattoo
> >parlors and
> > > > >> >>body piercing salons are popping up all over. Now
> there is a real
> >future
> > > > >> >>for your kids. Am I missing something here? Ira
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >>----- Original Message -----
> > > > >> >>From: "Earl Adamy" <eadamy@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > >> >>To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > >> >>Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 4:54 PM
> > > > >> >>Subject: Re: [RT] Service vs Manufacturing economy
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> > Gary, do you have a URL for that article, sure would like to
> >read the
> > > > >> >>whole
> > > > >> >> > thing?
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > I have long believed that true economic strength is
> built upon a
> >strong
> > > > >> >>and
> > > > >> >> > resilient manufacturing base. I have also been
> saying for many
> >years that
> > > > >> >> > the US would suffer deeply in the next
> recession/depression for
> >having
> > > > >> >> > converted to a service based economy.
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > Earl
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > >> >> > From: "Gary Funck" <gary@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > >> >> > To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > >> >> > Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 3:23 PM
> > > > >> >> > Subject: RE: [RT] 10 year note near 40 year highs ?
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > >> >> > > > From: Daniel Goncharoff [mailto:thegonch@xxxxxxxxxx]
> > > > >> >> > > > Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 9:37 AM
> > > > >> >> > > > To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > >> >> > > > Subject: Re: [RT] 10 year note near 40 year highs ?
> > > > >> >> > > >
> > > > >> >> > > >
> > > > >> >> > > > I think there are two sides to this point. Isn't a
> >service-based
> > > > >> >>economy
> > > > >> >> > > > more flexible than one based on large
> factories? It may mean
> >that
> > > > >> >> > > > changes come more easily, and that new industries can
> >develop using
> > > > >> >>the
> > > > >> >> > > > excess information-based labor from weaker sectors.
> > > > >> >> > > >
> > > > >> >> > > > In this respect, telecoms will be a good
> real-life example.
> >It will be
> > > > >> >> > > > interesting to see what happens to all the
> people getting
> >laid off by
> > > > >> >> > > > the telecoms firms that won't be growing for
> several years.
> >If they
> > > > >> >>end
> > > > >> >> > > > up having no place to go, that would indicate
> your believe
> >is
> > > > >> >>validated.
> > > > >> >> > > > If they find new jobs in a similar field, I think the
> >economic hit
> > > > >> >>will
> > > > >> >> > > > not be very big at all.
> > > > >> >> > > >
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> > > In this week's Business Week, there's a rather disturbing
> >article that
> > > > >> >> > refutes
> > > > >> >> > > the theory that a service based economy should be more
> >resilient.
> > > > >> >>Excerpts
> > > > >> >> > > below:
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> > > SEPTEMBER 30, 2002
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> > > NEWS: ANALYSIS & COMMENTARY
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> > > The Educated Unemployed
> > > > >> >> > > The jobless rate for managers and professionals
> is likely to
> >rise
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> > > [...]
> > > > >> >> > > Here's why joblessness is likely to rise: Across
> the board,
> >companies
> > > > >> >>are
> > > > >> >> > > facing an unholy trio of low profits, weak
> demand, and falling
> > > > >> >> > prices--with no
> > > > >> >> > > relief in sight. Revenues for the companies in
> the Standard &
> >Poor's
> > > > >> >> > 500-stock
> > > > >> >> > > index are down 2% over the past year, adding to
> the pressure
> >on
> > > > >> >>businesses
> > > > >> >> > to
> > > > >> >> > > cut costs by cutting workforces. At the same time,
> >productivity is
> > > > >> >>soaring
> > > > >> >> > at a
> > > > >> >> > > rapid clip--a 6% gain over last year at nonfinancial
> >corporations.
> > > > >> >>That's
> > > > >> >> > > allowing businesses to meet flat demand with
> fewer workers.
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> > > Even more distressing, some of the sectors where the job
> >market has
> > > > >> >>stayed
> > > > >> >> > > relatively strong--including health, education,
> finance, and
> >retailing,
> > > > >> >> > which
> > > > >> >> > > together make up about 40% of the total
> workforce--are showing
> >signs of
> > > > >> >> > > cracking. And the already grim labor picture in
> the airline,
> >energy,
> > > > >> >> > > technology, telecom, and media sectors--some 7% of the
> >workforce--keeps
> > > > >> >> > > deteriorating.
> > > > >> >> > > [...]
> > > > >> >> > > This is the dark side of the productivity boom. During the
> >second half
> > > > >> >>of
> > > > >> >> > the
> > > > >> >> > > 1990s, output per worker rose, but soaring demand and
> >revenues, driven
> > > > >> >>in
> > > > >> >> > part
> > > > >> >> > > by the technology and telecom boom, helped boost
> hiring and
> >push down
> > > > >> >>the
> > > > >> >> > > unemployment rate below 4%. Wages and bonuses
> soared, and it
> >seemed like
> > > > >> >>a
> > > > >> >> > > golden age for workers.
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> > > But rising productivity without rising demand is
> a recipe for
> > > > >> >>disappearing
> > > > >> >> > > jobs. If companies can't raise prices, the only
> way they can
> >boost
> > > > >> >>profits
> > > > >> >> > is
> > > > >> >> > > to cut workers--and higher productivity makes
> that possible.
> > > > >> >> > > [...]
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > >> >> > > realtraders-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> > >
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> > > > >> >>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > >> >> > realtraders-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> >
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> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >>
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> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >>
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> > > > >>
> > > > >> B> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> > > > >>
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