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More on Dell .... for those of you who don't want to any homework all the
data is in a published report that the Dell analyst at UBSPaineWebber just
put out.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jacobson, Alex [mailto:AJacobson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 2:48 PM
To: 'realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: RE: [RT] Barron's Option article
All the filings disclose are expiration and notional. Most of these are
Jans and they may have been rolled forwarded already. The filings are done
every 90 days and the firms tend to have a tendency to adjust the day after
a filing. You can guess strike from notional and that is how Erin .. most
likely generated the 8 figure.
You should also know that over the years Dell has often made much in it's
options activity than it ever made off of selling computers. That was a lot
of controversy a couple of years ago when their extraordinary income was
bigger .. for a few reporting periods ... than their operating income.
Extraordinary income comes from activity on the call side. There is no
income from the put side as the trades are given a special tax free status
by the IRS.... so if the cover and lose money on these short puts they don't
get an operating loss .. just as they didn't get an operating gain when it
work. It becomes a balance sheet item only.
Lots of firms do these OTC trades and you see them reported on their SEC
filings, but keep in mind they tend to adjust post filing. The place to see
the real impact of these trades is in the stocks short interest. When the
stocks short interest far exceeds what would be need to replicate the short
stock needed to cover the put open interest than the balance is hedging of
the OTC trade. You can back into this effect for lots of companies.
If you have access to Bloomberg they track all of this and have the fillings
handy.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Raffurty [mailto:r.raffurty@xxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 1:46 PM
To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [RT] Barron's Option article
OK, I'll buy that. What was the price sold at, for how many shares, when
where they sold, what is the expiration date, and why is she talking about
DELL at 8?
Or, do you have a link to the article and the filing?
Good luck and good trading,
Ray Raffurty
----- Original Message -----
From: Jacobson, Alex <mailto:AJacobson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: 'realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx' <mailto:'realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'>
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 2:55 PM
Subject: RE: [RT] Barron's Option article
Erin is 100 correct on this. It gets reported in the firms regulatory
filings. It public information with a little digging.
-----Original Message-----
From: M. Simms [mailto:prosys@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 8:31 AM
To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [RT] Barron's Option article
yeah - there were NO SPECIFICS in the article.....only the claim of a
potential BIG HIT.
Again, that Barron's writer who has the Striking Price, is a bit flaky at
times.
She has been known to be "off" several decimal places at times.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jacobson, Alex [mailto:AJacobson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 12:33 AM
> To: 'realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> Subject: RE: [RT] Barron's Option article
>
>
> These are OTC trades not done in the listed market and accordingly not
> reflected in the stats. of the listed market.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ray Raffurty [mailto:r.raffurty@xxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 7:12 PM
> To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [RT] Barron's Option article
>
>
> That should have been $207,646.00 - the premium they sold them for.
>
> Good luck and good trading,
>
> Ray Raffurty
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ray <mailto:r.raffurty@xxxxxxxx> Raffurty
> To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 8:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [RT] Barron's Option article
>
> I think you better read that article again.
>
> The first put options that I could find with significant open interest and
> enough time for DELL to go to 8 are the Jan 03 40 and 45 LEAPS @ 4843 and
> 1145 respectively.
>
> If they sold ALL 5988 puts (4843 +1145) their maximum loss would be only
> $207,646.00 if DELL is at 8 on expiration.
>
> I haven't done the math but I would bet that the total of all 40
> and 45 put
> open interest would fall far short of $2.3 Billion.
>
> Good luck and good trading,
>
> Ray Raffurty
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lee <mailto:LMorris@xxxxxxxxxx> Morris
> To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 7:30 PM
> Subject: RE: [RT] Barron's Option article
>
> something not right here they have not been over 30 since 9/00, and why $8
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: M. Simms [mailto:prosys@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 1:00 PM
> To: RealtradersList
> Subject: [RT] Barron's Option article
>
>
> Dell Corp. sold a TON of far-out put options on their own stock some time
> ago at about 40-45 strike.
>
> Bottomline: if Dell goes to 8, they will have lost $2.3 billion
> to cover the
> loss.
>
> Barron's is calling this event as the "bottom" in technology.
>
>
>
>
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