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Thank you for your frank observations.
They are of immense value to me -- exactly what I need to hear.
(More replies below)
At 08:13 PM 12/01/00, you wrote:
>Brian:
>
>My first comment is: You knew in advance that there was an important
>economic number out this morning and more important, that the US
>Supreme Court was hearing the election debate this morning. Your
>first thought should have been: Do I want to trade on a day like
>today? And if so, do I have to watch out for unusual market
>conditions?
Good point.
>Second: If you are making 3 pts on one day, 5 pts on another day, 9
>pts is the max for the week, you *can't* lose 19 plus pts one day!
>Cannot! No way. Can't ever let it happen.
What tools do you use to "pull the plug" on your trading after a
certain number of losses?
>First rule: If you run out of capital, you don't get to trade again.
>Period. They take your account away. If you can't be disciplined
>enough to stick to a rule as important as: I *can't lose more than 8
>points in one day, you aren't trading...you are not even gambling.
>You're throwing money on a raging fire. Traders around the world are
>waiting for you to make another trade so they can get rich.
Agreed.
>This isn't a game, Brian. This is trading. It's often very difficult.
>It's work. The hardest thing to do is to stick with the plan.
Trading is the hardest (yet most healing) thing I've ever
undertaken. I love it... but there's some reprogramming or
restructuring I need to do mentally in order to rid myself of these
self-inflicted "blow-out" days that I seem to have once or
twice a month. Any suggestions?
>Have a plan, trade the plan. Period. No over ruling the plans. No
>changing the rules mid-way through the day. A bad plan is better than
>no plan at all, and a plan that isn't followed is worthless.
Great advice. And I live it UNTIL emotion starts creeping in.
>If you don't respect yourself enough to follow your own plan about
>losses, either stop trading and put your money in a CD *or* please
>tell all of us what commodity you are going to trade next, so we can
>get some of the free cash you are passing out.
Is self-respect the answer? Trading certainly has assisted me in
learning to love and accept myself more than ever before in my life.
(I had a rough, abusive up-bringing with all the yucky crap one
cares to imagine). I've been working hard on overcoming it all, and
trading has propelled me into more personal healing than anything
ever has.
>How do I know when to quit? I hate losing money. When I lose money, I
>don't think about a comeback. I don't get mad. I close my positions
>out and take a break.
How much money are you willing to lose and do you base it on a percent
of your account, or what?
>I must be doing something wrong--why would I do
>more of it? There's always tomorrow.
Agreed. I guess I'm looking for more tools to be able to easily close my
positions and take that break. That sounds like the "right" thing to do...
but how?
>Last thing I'll throw your way: Joe DiNapoli has a great technique
>for traders that are trying to learn to follow their rules: You set
>your rules. You make your plan. If you make money that day and
>followed the rules, that's great. Get ready for tomorrow. If you lost
>money today, but you followed the rules, that's ok. You're gonna make
>losing trades, that's part of the plan. But if you didn't follow the
>rules you made for yourself, impose some discipline right now. The
>worst penalty a trader can impose on himself is time off from
>trading. Take three days off from trading now. No exceptions. Get
>away from the market action, because you are addicted to it. Take a
>break and clear your head. Don't go back to trading until you have
>gotten all that poison out of your system. If you come back and
>violate the rules all over again, take a two week period off.
Great advice.
>You're gonna say..."I can't be away from the markets for three days!"
Its no problem to take the time away. I understand and "get" what you're
saying.
>And that's your problem. You have no respect for yourself and your
>hard earned assets. Get some discipline.
Discipline and integrity to stick to my plan.
>I hope you think long and hard on it over the weekend.
>Tim Morge
Thank you Tim. Thanks a million for your awesome reply.
As a youngster in this game, I'm truly grateful to have this forum to turn to
for great advice like this. Thank you Tim.
Warmly,
Brian Voiles
>On Fri, 01 Dec 2000 14:00:41 -0700, Brian Keith Voiles wrote:
> >I have a question: At what point do you (meaning everyone in
>general)
> >call it quits for the DAY when you're losing? And how do you
> >discipline yourself to actually stop and quit, and not try to "make
> >it all
> >back"?
> >
> >I'm wondering because I had a great week in the S&P this week, up
> >until today. Monday was a 3-point gain, Tuesday was a
> >5-point gain, Wednesday was a 9 point gain, and Thursday was a
> >9.5 point game. Now... here we are on Friday... and I lost 19.7
> >points (ouch!). So grand total I made 6.8 points this week on
> >18 trades... a net win of $1232... but could'a been a lot more if I
> >hadn't responded so emotionally today to this:
> >
> >My first trade today missed the limit by 1-lousy tick.... then it
> >turned around and hit my stop -- minus 4.7 points. Second trade:
> >the same thing happen -- minus 5.5 points.
> >
> >So those two events got my emotional-juices flowing. But, you
> >see, I have a written rule staring me in the face that says
> >
> >"REMEMBER: a loss of 8-points and you're done for the day, no
> >matter what!"
> >
> >So I ignored it. Here I am after the session realizing that may be
>a
> >rule I can't live with. After-all, I'm the "come-back king!".
> >
> >Well, I'm looking for all you "old-timer's" advise on this. What
> >rules do you follow and how do you mentally and emotionally
> >disconnect enough to quit while the losses are "small"?
> >
> >Thank you,
> >Brian Voiles
> >
> >
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>
>-- Timothy Morge, tmorge@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx on 12/1/00
>
>
>
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