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<DIV>I submit that you posted a market opinion rather than a (day) trade which
includes entry, stop and price objectives. I added some comments from the
perspective of different techniques, some of which were supportive and some of
which were not. In no way did I criticize or make snide comments regarding your
methods of trading or your perspective. Further, I will note that it was my post
on 14Jul at 0757 which mentioned the possibility and danger of a spring/outside
bearish reversal hours before it occurred. Finally, seem to be under the
mistaken opinion that you are the only person who day trades bonds. I have
posted a number of my bond day trades (including entry, exit and objective) in
real-time as well as charts and other commentary utilizing 5 and 10 minute
charts. I frequently use day trades in what I believe to be the general
direction of the trend in the hope of converting it to a position trade. While I
prefer position trades across a number of markets, my activities are dictated by
perceived opportunities along with risk/reward so position trading tends to ebb
and flow. If I am spending time watching the intraday charts, I have no
hesitation in getting paid for my time by putting on day trades with or against
the trend.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Earl</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A href="mailto:t-bondtrader@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";
title=t-bondtrader@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>T-Bondtrader</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A href="mailto:eadamy@xxxxxxxxxx";
title=eadamy@xxxxxxxxxx>eadamy@xxxxxxxxxx</A> ; <A
href="mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";
title=realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A href="mailto:boggio@xxxxxxxxx";
title=boggio@xxxxxxxxx>Boggio, John</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 18, 2000 8:40
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RT] Re: $1,000 day on the
Bonds...</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>With regard to my last post, all I wanted to
convey was that I posted a straightforward, uncluttered chart show the
breakout of wedge and the 2-bar reversal, which, as I stated, in accordance
with my rationale should lead to lower prices. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Everyone on the list knows that I am a day trader
and that is as far as the post went - a day trade. In the event, what I
said would have been helpful to anyone who followed my timely
conclusions, before the market had opened, and had shorted bonds on
Monday. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>My post did not call for your elaborate
response. The point I was making, as an answer to it, was that to day
trade does not, in my view, require the sort of complicated process you
seem to go through. Simply reading the price action is very often all
that is needed, as was demonstrated very clearly with this
example.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I appreciate that you are quite entitled to your
views and you do have something to say about many markets and many aspects of
them, and you do an awful lot of posting. However, I believe
you once stated you were not a day trader, and I believe you; so I don't
know why you always want to have something to say about my posts. And
now you are going on to make remarks about Ira's posts. Perhaps you are
having a rather hot summer or something...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Anyway, perhaps if we agree to disagree, the list
can be left to benefit - without rancour from either of us - from your
position plays on many instruments and from my day trading on just the
one...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Bill Eykyn<BR><A
href="http://www.t-bondtrader.com";>www.t-bondtrader.com</A><BR>"Learn to read
the tape"</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
Earl Adamy
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
href='mailto:<realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>"List-RealTraders'
title=realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>mailto:<realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>"List-RealTraders</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A href="mailto:boggio@xxxxxxxxx";
title=boggio@xxxxxxxxx>Boggio, John</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 18, 2000 11:45
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [RT] Re: $1,000 day on the
Bonds...</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Bill, I am awfully tired of your snide attacks on my postings. If you
have something constructive to share, then share it. If you don't have
anything constructive then exercise self restraint and don't exercise your
need to put someone else down.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Earl</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A href="mailto:t-bondtrader@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";
title=t-bondtrader@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>T-Bondtrader</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";
title=realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, July 17, 2000 12:12
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [RT] $1,000 day on the
Bonds...</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If you read the immediate responses on my
brief post, before the market opened, you will see just how complicated
it must be to trade on an analytical and fundamental basis, as a
position player. Just consider the thought and maths that went
into them...!!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>For me, as a daytrader, I saw the pattern,
saw the 2-bar reversal, checked a few other basic points of support and
resistance, added two and two and, as it were, then read the tape.
No incredible workings out about this or that wave, what the fundamentals
were doing with bonds or elsewhere - simply, on what you could see on the
chart, what was the market pretty likely to be doing today,
Monday....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Well, I have not been sitting in front of the
machine today, or I would be up a big point a contract now and feeling it
was time to pull the plug and pull a pint. As it is my puts
are up by somewhat less because of all the factors that affect options and
which do not affect futures...!!) Still, I have cashed in to
make a free trade, so might as well let them ride for the time
being. But day trading, reading what the chart says it is
doing, has to be, for me, the most profitable way of collecting your daily
bread, without too much risk or fuss...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Study the attached chart, which was put on
the list before the market opened and you will see that it does not
take a gargantuan brain to imagine what it has done, and that what it has
done was what it was most likely to do... After that it
was just a matter of applying a decent r/r/r and QED!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>As for guessing the outcome of the Report
tomorrow.... as far as I am concerned that is
gambling. Far, far better to let the market tell you,
show you, and then make your move by reading the price action in front of
you and taking it from there...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Bill Eykyn<BR><A
href="http://www.t-bondtrader.com";>www.t-bondtrader.com</A><BR>"Learn to
read the tape"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 08:42:51 -0700
From: Ira Tunik <ist@xxxxxx>
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Subject: [RT] Re: $1,000 day on the Bonds...
References: <018701bff01a$8c528f20$9b63ff3e@xxxx> <3973CB9F.5DACC446@xxxxxx> <049901bff0a6$08786ad0$1f2a42cf@xxxxxx>
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Status:
I am not trying to be superior, or anything else that might be construed
in that area. A look at the chart I posted, whether you use Eliot,
Gann, Support/ resistance, or any other system will give you sell
signals and one buy signal, the chart itself should be the explanation.
It was posted to show that the chart he showed, when broken down into a
smaller time frame, gave a much better picture of the market internals.
I just explained what the chart showed. I didn't brag, I didn't say
that I made X number of points and he didn't. I didn't espouse my
system over any other. I posted something that should have been self
explanatory, but instead I received static. Sorry that it irritated
you. Boy, I'll try not to do that again. Ira.
Earl Adamy wrote:
> Ira, yet another illustration of your finely honed posts where you
> attempt to convoke everyone how superior you are while providing
> absolutely nothing of substance. Earl
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ira Tunik
> To: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Cc: realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000 9:14 PM
> Subject: [RT] Re: $1,000 day on the Bonds...
> I don't believe that it is quite as compelling as the
> attached chart which gave a sell signal the morning of 7-14
> in fact gave you 3 opportunities to sell and cover and sell
> again. It also gave 2 sell signals on the 17th all with
> distinct Entry Prices and targets. Nothing really
> sophisticated, just good eyesight and 5th grade math. As
> the saying goes," a picture is worth a thousand words" Ira.
>
> T-Bondtrader wrote:
>
> > If you read the immediate responses on my brief post,
> > before the market opened, you will see just how
> > complicated it must be to trade on an analytical and
> > fundamental basis, as a position player. Just consider
> > the thought and maths that went into them...!!! For me, as
> > a daytrader, I saw the pattern, saw the 2-bar reversal,
> > checked a few other basic points of support and
> > resistance, added two and two and, as it were, then read
> > the tape. No incredible workings out about this or that
> > wave, what the fundamentals were doing with bonds or
> > elsewhere - simply, on what you could see on the chart,
> > what was the market pretty likely to be doing today,
> > Monday.... Well, I have not been sitting in front of the
> > machine today, or I would be up a big point a contract now
> > and feeling it was time to pull the plug and pull a
> > pint. As it is my puts are up by somewhat less because
> > of all the factors that affect options and which do not
> > affect futures...!!) Still, I have cashed in to make a
> > free trade, so might as well let them ride for the time
> > being. But day trading, reading what the chart says it is
> > doing, has to be, for me, the most profitable way of
> > collecting your daily bread, without too much risk or
> > fuss... Study the attached chart, which was put on the
> > list before the market opened and you will see that it
> > does not take a gargantuan brain to imagine what it has
> > done, and that what it has done was what it was most
> > likely to do... After that it was just a matter of
> > applying a decent r/r/r and QED! As for guessing the
> > outcome of the Report tomorrow.... as far as I am
> > concerned that is gambling. Far, far better to let the
> > market tell you, show you, and then make your move by
> > reading the price action in front of you and taking it
> > from there... Bill Eykyn
> > www.t-bondtrader.com
> > "Learn to read the tape"
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------
>
> [Image]
>
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<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
I am not trying to be superior, or anything else that might be construed
in that area. A look at the chart I posted, whether you use Eliot,
Gann, Support/ resistance, or any other system will give you sell signals
and one buy signal, the chart itself should be the explanation. It
was posted to show that the chart he showed, when broken down into a smaller
time frame, gave a much better picture of the market internals. I
just explained what the chart showed. I didn't brag, I didn't say
that I made X number of points and he didn't. I didn't espouse my
system over any other. I posted something that should have been self
explanatory, but instead I received static. Sorry that it irritated
you. Boy, I'll try not to do that again. Ira.
<p>Earl Adamy wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE> Ira, yet another illustration of your finely
honed posts where you attempt to convoke everyone how superior you are
while providing absolutely nothing of substance. Earl
<blockquote
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----</div>
<div
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><b>From:</b>
Ira Tunik</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Cc:</b> realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 17, 2000 9:14 PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> [RT] Re: $1,000 day on the
Bonds...</div>
I don't believe that it is quite as compelling as the attached chart
which gave a sell signal the morning of 7-14 in fact gave you 3 opportunities
to sell and cover and sell again. It also gave 2 sell signals on
the 17th all with distinct Entry Prices and targets. Nothing really
sophisticated, just good eyesight and 5th grade math. As the saying
goes," a picture is worth a thousand words" Ira.
<p>T-Bondtrader wrote:
<blockquote TYPE="CITE"><style></style>
<font face="Arial"><font size=-1>If
you read the immediate responses on my brief post, before the market opened,
you will see just how complicated it must be to trade on an analytical
and fundamental basis, as a position player. Just consider
the thought and maths that went into them...!!!</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>For
me, as a daytrader, I saw the pattern, saw the 2-bar reversal, checked
a few other basic points of support and resistance, added two and two and,
as it were, then read the tape. No incredible workings out about
this or that wave, what the fundamentals were doing with bonds or elsewhere
- simply, on what you could see on the chart, what was the market pretty
likely to be doing today, Monday....</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Well,
I have not been sitting in front of the machine today, or I would be up
a big point a contract now and feeling it was time to pull the plug and
pull a pint. As it is my puts are up by somewhat less because
of all the factors that affect options and which do not affect futures...!!)
Still, I have cashed in to make a free trade, so might as well let them
ride for the time being. But day trading, reading what the chart
says it is doing, has to be, for me, the most profitable way of collecting
your daily bread, without too much risk or fuss...</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Study
the attached chart, which was put on the list before the market opened
and you will see that it does not take a gargantuan brain to imagine what
it has done, and that what it has done was what it was most likely to do...
After that it was just a matter of applying a decent r/r/r and QED!</font></font>
<font face="Arial"><font size=-1>As for guessing the outcome of the Report
tomorrow.... as far as I am concerned that is gambling.
Far, far better to let the market tell you, show you, and then make your
move by reading the price action in front of you and taking it from there...</font></font>
<font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Bill Eykyn</font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>www.t-bondtrader.com</font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>"Learn to read the tape"</font></font></blockquote>
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